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Rob_5419
8-Jul-2007, 13:37
For some time I've been saving up for one of these on the recommendations of various photographers although I've never used one:

http://www.rhdesigns.co.uk/darkroom/html/exposure_meters.html

Several things still confuse me about this and how it works.

I've been very conservative most of my printing career and use Oriental Seagull FB papers Grades II - IV. Lately I've switched over to Ilford Multigrade FBs and I've never had a gadget as expensive as this - mostly just a standard clock and interrupter switch type timer. Since the switch it's been hard trying to work out exposure times - the RH Designs website seems to claim that no paper wastage is required.

I don't quite understand how this can be, since my papers react to the tonal scales in varying timescales, regardless of my accuracy of the tonal scale. Clearly I'm trying to understand this at a very basic level.....help?

Need to make a decision before August too...

Thanks

Nick Wood
8-Jul-2007, 14:18
Rob,

I can recommend the Analyser Pro, and have been using one for years although I don't really use it to its full potential (split grade etc.).

The biggest pain is the calibration. In order to get good consistent results you have to go through the calibration process methodically for your particular paper/enlarger/chemicals. If you have more than one paper type then you have to calibrate for each, but the Analyser can hold the different settings in its memory. Once its done, its done (until you change your enlarger light source!). I believe RH have now made calibration easier, providing test negs and stuff. Also, Richard Ross at RH is always keen to help.

I can't remember the last time I made a test strip. Obviously you'll still be making more than one print to get those crucial dodges/burns etc. right.

Hope this helps.

Nick

Nick Wood
8-Jul-2007, 14:22
Forgot to mention, if you make a print on, say, grade 2 and it's not hard enough then you just change the grade on your Analyser Pro (and enlarger of course) and it automatically calculates the required time for the new grade.

Rob_5419
8-Jul-2007, 14:36
Hi Nick,

thanks for the advice on the RH.

It sounds like, from your description, that I'm trying to work out how to calibrate the tonal scale for each set of papers.

How is this calibration done if it doesn't require test strips?

Does the calibration hold true for different enlargement sizes, or do I have to recalibrate everytime I readjust the enlargement factor for the paper?

And if i change developer from Neutol to Acuprint, do I have to recalibrate still again?

It's confusing trying to make sense of how the Analyser Pro can calculate the new time for the new grade of paper. Does it hold algorithms for all the manufactured papers in its computer brain?

Many thanks. I think because I've never used one, I'm not so sure about the recommendation. Although if it cuts down on wastage and test strips, then it must be environmentally friendly..

Nick Wood
9-Jul-2007, 02:46
Rob,

Sounds like a call to Richard Ross may be in order, as I'm not very good at explaining how this box of tricks works. But here's another stab at it...

For calibration purposes you have to make a series of test strips for highlights (or tonal scale) and for contrast for the paper type you are using. In both cases it's a test strip for each grade. Once you've made the necessary adjustments to the Analyser from these test strips, those settings are held in memory.

When I turn mine on I either select 'PAP 1' which I've set up for Ilford MG or 'PAP 2' which I've set up for Agfa Classic. The Analyser defaults to Grade 2 when you turn it on, but obviously you can select any grade you want.

I set up and focus the image on an old piece of paper on the baseboard, stop down the lens to a sensible fstop (like you normally do), use the Analyser's probe to take a shadow reading and a highlight reading (this is using unfiltered light), and look on the Analyser's tonal greyscale to see where those readings sit. You can take further readings to see where on the greyscale they fall. The Analyser is all the while showing you the exposure time it has calculated.

It's then a matter of moving those readings around on the greyscale (if necessary). Pressing the darken or lighten buttons obviously moves them appropriately along the greyscale. Increasing the grade obviously spreads the readings further apart on the scale - again the Analyser calculates the exposure time for every such adjustment you're making.

If you want to change the enlargement size or the fstop on the lens then you've got to clear those initial readings on the Analyser and take another two (or more) readings.

Once you're happy you've naturally got to set the appropriate filtration in the enlarger to match the grade you've selected on the Analyser.

As regards chemicals, I've only ever changed my developer brand/type once - it didn't make a sufficient difference to warrant recalibration.

Changing my enlarger lightsource was a pain, as I had to recalibrate the Analyser again for both papers - basically an entire evening in the darkroom.

Well, I've tried my best explanation-wise. It's not a purists piece of kit, but I've found it very useful over the years.

Good luck

Nick

Andrew_4548
9-Jul-2007, 05:17
I've got one and I've started seeing tone in prints I never saw before ;)

As Nick says, if you use a paper that the analyser has in its library then it's usable straight out of the box (once wired up...)

I've also used Agfa paper but following it's demise, have switched to Fotospeed RC so need to do a calibration. Richard supplies a test strip with the kit but a 35mm step tablet isn't much use in a 4x5 neg holder so I've just bought a Stouffer step tablet. I now need to read the instructions and get the darkroom out of hibernation ;)

Yes, you do save on paper but you've got to get used to where to place the measuring probe to get Zone II and Zone VIII tones - just like learning to use a spotmeter but on a negative.

It's great watching it alter the times to match your changes in grade - it's recalculating the time required to achieve the same tonal density at the new grade so a softer grade will require a longer time to hit a certain tone than a harder grade. It also takes the pain out of calculating times for f-stop printing. You don't think you'd notice giving 1/12th stop between steps but it's fairly obvious on the paper.

The only downside (to me) is that it works the opposite way round for split grade printing. The Analyser works by printing the hard grade first and then burning in with softer grades (e.g. printing in skies on landscapes.) I preferred to work by "delicately" printing in the highlights first on the soft grade and then printing in the shadows just enough to get the blacks deep enough and add some punch. In my eyes, printing the shadows first obviously adds tone to the dark areas and then printing the highlights on a soft grade later also adds shadow tone (without masking) so you've to try and guess how much less tone to give on the hard grades that will be "topped up" by the soft grade without blocking up the shadows...

Andrew

Rob_5419
9-Jul-2007, 12:38
Thanks guys - I'm starting to understand what it's all about.

I think it confused me in the website stating that 'no test strips' would be required. Clearly this refers to printing, once calibration with test strips has been undertaken.


For calibration purposes you have to make a series of test strips for highlights (or tonal scale) and for contrast for the paper type you are using. In both cases it's a test strip for each grade. Once you've made the necessary adjustments to the Analyser from these test strips, those settings are held in memory.

I guess this is for graded papers, right? How would multigraded papers work - these be automatically accounted for by the Analyser Pro, right?



When I turn mine on I either select 'PAP 1' which I've set up for Ilford MG or 'PAP 2' which I've set up for Agfa Classic. The Analyser defaults to Grade 2 when you turn it on, but obviously you can select any grade you want.

That's really great - I use Ilford MG IV and Agfa Classic FBs too! If I swing it and buy one, I guess your settings wouldn't just transfer straight to mine, due to differences in enlarger lamps, baseboard height etc etc?

I set up and focus the image on an old piece of paper on the baseboard, stop down the lens to a sensible fstop (like you normally do), use the Analyser's probe to take a shadow reading and a highlight reading (this is using unfiltered light), and look on the Analyser's tonal greyscale to see where those readings sit. You can take further readings to see where on the greyscale they fall. The Analyser is all the while showing you the exposure time it has calculated.

Gotcha. And just to think, I was considering a Canon 5D...


It's then a matter of moving those readings around on the greyscale (if necessary). Pressing the darken or lighten buttons obviously moves them appropriately along the greyscale. Increasing the grade obviously spreads the readings further apart on the scale - again the Analyser calculates the exposure time for every such adjustment you're making.

Many thanks - I understand this part now.



Changing my enlarger lightsource was a pain, as I had to recalibrate the Analyser again for both papers - basically an entire evening in the darkroom.


I use two enlargers - I guess it means this is going to be complicated.....


Richard supplies a test strip with the kit but a 35mm step tablet isn't much use in a 4x5 neg holder so I've just bought a Stouffer step tablet. I now need to read the instructions and get the darkroom out of hibernation

Does Richard supply test strips for all different paper emulsions, or only for calibration? I'd need a 4x5 neg holder calibration kit too since 35mm is small in my repertoire. What is a Stouffer step tablet? I don't know if you're in the States or England - I've not heard of this so just wondering...


It also takes the pain out of calculating times for f-stop printing. You don't think you'd notice giving 1/12th stop between steps but it's fairly obvious on the paper.

So I can forget about upgrading to an f-stop timer then if I go for an Analyser Pro?

The split printing (reversal) is okay, although it will be strange trying it out that way instead of building up on a foundation base exposure.


Thanks for your help!

Steve Kefford
9-Jul-2007, 16:17
.....So I can forget about upgrading to an f-stop timer then if I go for an Analyser Pro?...

You could always go for a Zonemaster combined with the Stopclock Pro. The Zomemaster provided all the analysis stuff from the Analyser pro, and the Stopclock pro gives some extra stuff on fstop printing.

Steve

Andrew_4548
9-Jul-2007, 17:22
Does Richard supply test strips for all different paper emulsions, or only for calibration? I'd need a 4x5 neg holder calibration kit too since 35mm is small in my repertoire. What is a Stouffer step tablet? I don't know if you're in the States or England - I've not heard of this so just wondering...

The test strip I referred to was the calibration negative with 20 tonal steps on it - see Calibration Manual (http://www.rhdesigns.co.uk/darkroom/Calibration_Manual_v20.pdf) for info. You create your own emulsion step tablets if you want to replace the one on the front of the unit.

The Stouffer step tablet is similar but 45 sized as I thought this would be better in my enlarger rather than having a lot of white light flying around the edge of the 35mm negative. Info can be found here. (http://www.stouffer.net/Photo.htm) I bought mine from the View Camera Store (www.viewcamerastore.com) as part of a larger order so postage wasn't too stupid as I'm also in the UK.

Andrew_4548
10-Jul-2007, 04:55
You could always go for a Zonemaster combined with the Stopclock Pro. The Zomemaster provided all the analysis stuff from the Analyser pro, and the Stopclock pro gives some extra stuff on fstop printing.

Steve

Rob,

An Analyser Pro is an f-stop timer with tone measurement built in. I think you can put it into "linear" timing mode but f-stop is fine once you've mastered it - it's just like exposure steps on the camera anyway...

Reading the RH site, it's great for getting to good prints easily but if you want to get the ultimate out of a negative, then as Steve says, the Stopclock Pro and Zonemaster II could be the better bet as you then get split grade printing and a few other niceties to steepen the learning curve... ;)

Rob_5419
10-Jul-2007, 21:05
Arrgh.

My brain is full.

I've got to re-read everything again and start trying to understand the differences between an Analyser Pro vs Zonemaster II+Stop Timer combination.

Andrew_4548
11-Jul-2007, 00:39
...and if you decide you want to go the Analyser route, there could be one available if I decide to go the other way... :) Postage could be almost sensible as I'm in the UK as well.

Rob_5419
11-Jul-2007, 03:29
Hi Andrew,

I was thinking about the Analyser Pro - well thinking over the past few years, wondering why on earth anyone should want something that any timer can achieve - I didn't even think of the Zone Master II and f stop option.

Does that mean that the analyser pro cannot do F stop timing?

I have a Gralab series timer which I'm happy with.

PS - why are you selling the Analyser Pro - split grade printing? In a way, the ZMII and Fstoptimer combination seems a lot more expensive...

Thanks,

Rob

Andrew_4548
11-Jul-2007, 04:33
Hi Rob,

The Analyser is an f-stop timer but with the added benefit of the tonal display so you can visualise the tones on the print and adjust the exposure and contrast if necessary to achieve the result you want. With the probe, you meter highlights and shadows where you want to keep detail (effectively Zone VIII & II) and it sorts out the contrast filtration and exposure to give you them. You can use the probe to place other readings on the print to get a fuller picture. It can also be used for doing portraiture where you might want high- and/or low-key pictures where the tones are shunted up or down the scale respectively. You can burn in areas at different grades and it'll do all the calculations for you.

I was considering moving to the ZMII and Stopclock Pro as I miss the chance to do split grading - I used to get some nice results with it back in the 'bad' old days of test strips and some of the pictures I take with a large contrast range benefit from the technique. There are a a couple of other interesting features I wouldn't mind checking out as well - paper dry-down compensation etc.

Unfortunately, it does look to be expensive for both so I thought that if you were interested in a low use / as new Analyser, it might be an opportunity for both of us. I might give Richard a ring at RH and ask him a few question before I take the plunge...

Andrew

Rob_5419
11-Jul-2007, 04:48
Hi Andrew,

The more I think about it, the more bewildering it seems.

How can I use a visual grey scale to compare the tones with a red-light on? If I have the red light off, then I can imagine all sorts of fumblings going on to find the right switches and things. My baseboard is also white, however my easel is black, which makes it trickier...

In some ways, I think the idea of a probe (like a Sinar exposure meter probe) is more intuitive to me than trying to guess the zone of the tones in attenuated lighting.




Unfortunately, it does look to be expensive for both so I thought that if you were interested in a low use / as new Analyser, it might be an opportunity for both of us. I might give Richard a ring at RH and ask him a few question before I take the plunge..
I've just been reading the spec.

Yes - I was interested - and then you went and mentioned the ZMII+F.Timer! Maybe Richard would do a discount for two? :)

The dry-down compensation is important to me since I use fibre paper exclusively. Split-grade printing isn't something that I've gotten into - I'm still on graded papers.

Btw - Is the ZMII+F.Timer able to interface with a Devere Colour Head? I use cold cathode printing mostly but I am wondering about getting a set-up with one of either the Analyser or the ZMII+F.Timer now. Got a few weeks to decide before the prices at RH Designs rise. I guess I just won't go on holiday in August and that'll cover the extra cost.

Andrew_4548
11-Jul-2007, 05:17
Hi Rob,

To clear up a few points ;)

All the measurements are taken with the safelight off and without a contrast filter in place, the lens being set at the working aperture. You soon find out that the probe is sensitive as leaving a safelight on (even at the other end of the room as I have one above the dishes) will really throw the readings and give you exceedingly short exposure times.

If you have it wired as per the instructions, your safelight turns off as the enlarger light comes on for both focusing and exposure so there's no "cross-contamination."

For seeing things in the dark, the unit has small lights on each button so you know where they are. You get used to them quickly and your eyes adjust to the darkness. Most of the adjustments are made with the safelight switched on anyway.

You could have a sky blue baseboard with pink dots on for all the analyser cares! ;) The probe measures the light falling on it from above - from the lens. The baseboard colour is only so you can focus the image. The probe has a uniform colour to it's top surface so you can place the cross-hairs fairly accurately on a tone.

I can't help on colour heads apart from the fact that if you're using MG paper you've to create the filtration from the three colour wheels etc. If you're still using graded papers then I guess you'd make the measurements and force the analyser to work on one grade only - e.g. grade 2, 3 etc. The beauty of them is that with MG, it will tell you which grade to use to get the tonal separation etc you desire. I'd have thought you were losing a big chunk of the functionality by being on graded papers as you've no contrast control (other than changing paper) / burning in at other grades, split grading etc.

There is an RH version for cold cathode heads but I don't have any experience of them - I have an old DeVere 54 model with a separate CC head but I normally use the condenser head. You'd have to look at the info on Richard's site or get in touch for more details. I know that from conversations with Odyssey Sales, CC heads are only much good for graded papers these days unless you have a modern twin-tube version which can vary the contrast on MG papers.

Any info on the price changes at RH? Being a tight Yorkshireman, we like to know of these heinous price rises to plan accordingly... ;)

Rob_5419
11-Jul-2007, 06:42
Thanks Andrew - that makes much more sense now!


If you have it wired as per the instructions, your safelight turns off as the enlarger light comes on for both focusing and exposure so there's no "cross-contamination."

Oops. I was thinking about the darkroom safelamp - not the enlarger switching safelamp...


You could have a sky blue baseboard with pink dots on for all the analyser cares! The probe measures the light falling on it from above - from the lens. The baseboard colour is only so you can focus the image. The probe has a uniform colour to it's top surface so you can place the cross-hairs fairly accurately on a tone.

Is the probe identical in the ZMII+F.Timer set up? I'd like a funky paisley psychedelic baseboard actually. At the minute my baseboard has a few (hundred) coffee mug stains which shows I take my work very seriously! But there are a few stains where the coffee has spilled over too...


I'd have thought you were losing a big chunk of the functionality by being on graded papers as you've no contrast control (other than changing paper) / burning in at other grades, split grading etc.

That's certainly what everyone (used) to tell me. Until they see my prints. It's a bit like the digital vs film scenario - most lay people assume that quality imaging is done on digital and betray their blindness when they find out otherwise.

Don't forget that graded papers have been around for decades more than multi-grade papers. I remember multi-grade papers coming in around early 1990's. There's a richness to graded papers which isn't evident in multigrades. I find this is true for Oriental Seagull FB papers vs MG papers as well as Agfa IIIFBs. Ilford Multigrade is fine but clearly I'm not working it as well as other printers, which is one reason why more splitgrade printing is exciting (it may very well be the only paper I have left by the end of next year ;( )


There is an RH version for cold cathode heads but I don't have any experience of them - I have an old DeVere 54 model with a separate CC head but I normally use the condenser head. You'd have to look at the info on Richard's site or get in touch for more details. I know that from conversations with Odyssey Sales, CC heads are only much good for graded papers these days unless you have a modern twin-tube version which can vary the contrast on MG papers.

Uh oh. That means I need to set up an analyser pro or ZMIIF.Timer for both colour and CC heads, as well as my smaller 6x6cm Meopta enlarger??

RH Designs have announced on their website that their costings are going to be up by 5% from August onwards. It's perfect timing to fret (people like me) who've been dithering for years, and then get pushed, just as the summer holidays (and lull in business) kicks in. It's not a huge amount, but if the British weather is like today, I won't mind not going abroad with all the terrorist paraphenalia at airports to contend with. Instead I'll take a 1 month holiday in my darkroom :)

TimRoscoe
11-Jul-2007, 07:06
I am going to throw a wrench in the works here. I purchased both an analyzer and a stop clock a couple of years ago. They both work as they have been described here: very reliable and useful. Although, as was mentioned above, the constant need for calibrating the analyzer to suit papers and chemistry, is tedious at best, no matter how slick you get at it. It may sound odd, but I have actually found that the stop clock pro, by itself, is so useful that there is no need for the analyzer.
I eventually realized that if there were two guys starting a printing session at exactly the same time with the same negative, and one used the analyzer, and the other just made test strips with the stop clock, then, the guy with the test strips would finish first. BTW, all of my priniting is split grade.
I think that the thing that makes the biggest difference is the constant density change for every step on the test strip with the stop clock. This means that with very brief "getting-used-to" time, you will soon be producing a test strip that has too "little at one end, and too much at the other". And that is all you need.
I sold the analyzer and work with the stop clock alone, and I never need more than two test strips ( one for low contrast, and one for high contrast), well... almost never...
Anyway that is my two cents worth, in practise, the timer is enough by itself.

Tim R

Rob_5419
11-Jul-2007, 08:26
Thanks Tim. Now my brain is really full.

I think your post echoes all the worries about calibration that I have, before owning either.

Here's a list of the papers I've been printing on recently:

Oriental Seagull Fibre-based Graded Papers II-IV
Agfa Classic FB Graded IV
Agfa Classic FB Multigrade
Kentmere Art Document Paper
Kentmere Fine Print FB Paper
Ilford Multigrade IV FB Paper
Ilford Warmtone MG IV FB Paper
Konica Lith paper (running out actually)


And Print Developers:

Agfa Neutol
Fotospeed Warmtone
Paterson Acugrade

Am I going to have a nightmare time with an analyser/ZMII/F.Timer?

I've not changed any of the above papers (exc. inclusion of multigrade papers) over the past 20 years...

In some way, I think the F. Timer makes sense - I can see myself using that more often. Although it was an analyser that I was saving up for :(

Andrew_4548
11-Jul-2007, 08:59
At least you're using 8 papers and there are 8 calibration slots :)

I think there's a table somewhere of all the calibration figures for different papers - it's not exhaustive but you might already have the base data for quite a few papers - Ilford MG is PAP1 calibration etc. These figures would certainly get you decent prints initially and you could do your own calibrations later on if you felt the need to fine tune the contrast etc.

I've not done any calibration in the time I've had the Analyser as I've used the nominally standard papers but now I've switched to the Fotospeed, I've wondered whether the grades are as "equally spaced" and may need a slight tweak.

For the differing enlargers, would a Stopclock Vario cover the light intensity variations as they are supposed to compensate for the light level? They wouldn't compensate for the contrast levels as this would need to be a calibration job. You could always get a unit for each enlarger... ;)

When I mentioned about losing functionailty, I thought you were only using graded papers - not the MG versions you have in your list. Certainly, as papers have been around for a long time and your skill level can possibly bring out a lot in a picture, you probably will get better pictures than the average bloke... I think the RH site mentions something that the Analyser is good for good prints fairly quickly but Fine Art printers may find more in the Stopclock (with or without ZMII) to squeeze the last drop out of the negative.

After I mentioned about the prices, I saw the changes on the website - time to concentrate the mind / polish the shotgun for the moths in the wallet?

Rob_5419
11-Jul-2007, 11:11
Hi Andrew,

I'm starting to feel like a numpty.

Calibration is definitely not my strong point. I have three different monitors, none of which agree on white balance. Strangely, I'm not reassured by the 8 calibration slots for my selection of 8 printing papers :eek:

Guess I (knowing my IT capabilities) would spend more time calibrating the analyser than printing. I'm starting to think I should be less ambitious and settle back into the groove of the cold cathode and graded papers and forget what I'm hearing about split-grade printing with a multigrade. If there was someway to compare what quality of prints others are getting from MG split-grade printing with my graded paper CC method from the same method, I'd love to find out.

Btw - price looks stable across other suppliers at £175 + £90 for the F.Timer and the ZMII.

Gotta go for a game of tennis...

Andrew_4548
11-Jul-2007, 15:54
Hi Rob,

Did you win or was it the taking part? ;)

For calibration - I haven't done one and got perfectly normal prints out of the unit - don't get wound up about never printing becasue you're always calibrating ;). The only bit I did was to enter data for the Agfa Multicontrast paper found somewhere on the web. I've just looked round again and found this - the old manual for the Analyser: http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ktphotonics/pdf/InstruPro.PDF Page 32 gives starting point settings for several papers so you could probably use some of these which would save a bit of work.

I haven't done much of a web search for prices yet but yours sound interesting - any chance of sending me a PM with some info if you don't want to put it on here?

I've no experience of them but you might be better with a Heiland Splitgrade unit (also available from RH) as you can use up to 3 enlargers with them :eek: AFAIR they work by a unit that has two filters (effectively hard and soft grade) that goes in your enlarger and it varies the time through each to give you split grade printing. It's a similar idea to the newer CC heads with two tubes in that vary the time etc. on each tube.

Rob_5419
12-Jul-2007, 01:36
Hi Andrew,

actually I won - 2 out of 5 games (so I lost). There's nothing worse than being beaten by a midget who is so short that he can't see through the net. I tried to make him run all corners in order to tire out his little legs. At the end of the day, he took the advantage through my double faulting serve. Beaten by a 12 year old :(


Thanks for the manual - I think I'm going to try and spend the weekend to understand it and decide if I can live with it then. The Heiland Controller looks fantastic too - but have you seen the attachment - the Split-Grade Comfort Controller portion too? The most advanced thing in my darkroom is probably my iPod and I fear it might go all electronic with loads of complex gadgets...in any case, I'm really behind the times. I never knew modern CC heads could do things like that. Then again, I'm still amazed that planes can actually lift off. Still, the info in the manual is sufficient to get me considering it. Another 2 weeks to decide ;)

Mattg
13-Jul-2007, 00:11
Hi Rob,
I use both graded papers and VC papers with a cold cathode head and an analyser. Don't let the calibration process put you off, it's incedibly easy with the included calibration kit and doesn't take long at all, even for VC papers. 8 papers is a lot of calibrating but it won't really take that long, once calibrated I haven't found the need to recalibrate for different paper batches.

I now can't imagine working without the Analyser, I still need to make test strips but not nearly as many, the first one always includes the exposure I want. By the third test strip I have contrast established, am very clear about my choice of exposure time and have identified most of the dodging and burning that will be needed.

As an example of how it can save you time you can establish a completely repeatable exposure for a pre-flash with the column at any height and the focus at any setting; within seconds you can be flashing the paper very accurately.

Best of all the customer service and support from Richard at RH is the best I've ever encountered.

Matt.

Rob_5419
13-Jul-2007, 14:38
Hi Matt,

thanks for the vote of confidence. Can I ask if you're using an F stop timer with your Analyser Pro, or if you just transfer to a linear timescale workflow?

Andrew_4548
16-Jul-2007, 04:31
Rob,

Without wanting to jump in, you don't need to get hung up on times with the Analyser - you're working on tones in the picture and the relationships between them - whether you want them overall lighter or darker and closer or more spread for the contrast range. The time output is just to give you a guide as to how long the exposure will be (stating the bleeding obvious but you spend more "time" watching the position of the LEDs on the tonal scale for sorting out the print.)

Once you've seen f-stop printing and how intuitive it is as a photographer, you can see the downsides of linear timing, for example if you want to burn in corners. With f-stop, you know that you need +1 stop burn (print enlargement is now irrelevant) to create the required tone. With linear, a corner might require an extra 10 seconds but this is only true for our enlarger setup and column height. Anything else will change this figure.

For example, burning in a sky area with the Analyser. Use the probe to "spot" the tones where you want highlight and shadow detail retained (Zone VIII and II) Additionally, pick any tones where you think you'll need to burn in. This new highlight will slew the LEDs and force the Zone II & VIII readings to the darker end of the scale. Adjust the contrast settings to bring these two tones back to something like the original points on the scale. Make an exposure at this setting (base exposure.) Next, hold down the increase exposure button until the wayward highlight LED comes to somewhere sensible on the scale that has the tone you'd like there. Hold down the "expose" button for longer than a second and it will calculate the burn-in exposure and give you a couple of seconds to get in position for the burn-in after which it will light up the enlarger lamp. Job done. Now where did I mention times?

If you want to burn in at a different grade, it will handle it and shunt the LEDs around to give you the tones at the new grade so there's no calculations to do - just watch the LEDs... :)

This is all standard on the Analyser - no additional timer required.

Andrew

Mattg
16-Jul-2007, 18:36
Hi Rob,
sorry I missed your post, as Andrew has said the Analyser is an f-stop timer. I think that the Stop Clock has some additional timing functions but I can't tell you what they are. The manuals should give you a full picture of what to do although it takes a bit of imagination to see how each device would work for you in the darkroom.

Regards, Matt.

Rob_5419
17-Jul-2007, 17:57
Hi Matt & Andrew,

many thanks for the useful information.

Today I'm definitely feeling my way towards the Zonemaster II and F stop timer. Matt - the Stop Clock has a dry-down compensation which I think sounds very useful.
Whereas the manuals are useful, I'd like to test drive one in the darkroom to see if I can live with it. Somehow that just isn't going to happen!

I guess that's why we buy things ;)

Andrew_4548
18-Jul-2007, 14:35
Rob,

Do you think we could try for bulk order rates? ;)

Rob_5419
18-Jul-2007, 15:06
Rob,

Do you think we could try for bulk order rates? ;)

That's just what I was thinking: prices go up 5% in August; maybe if we approach Richard when he's back in late July and ask if he'll agree to give a 5% discount for the Large Format Photography Forum users with 2 orders secured (that's mine and yours; not me x 2), Richard just won't know how to say no anymore!].

That way overall, we save 10%, if you catch my drift.

Whaddya think? :)

Andrew_4548
18-Jul-2007, 17:31
... and he gets to sell six units plus cabling (just to confirm: 2-off Stopclock Pro, 2-off ZMII and 2-off power supply units for ZMII unless you run them off batteries or already have a power supply - see website for info)

He'll think it's Christmas come early....! :D

Talking of Christmas, he might be "snowed under" with orders if other people have the same idea :rolleyes:

TimRoscoe
19-Jul-2007, 06:23
That way overall, we save 10%, if you catch my drift.

Wow, what a great idea ! But why stop there, let's order 10 of them and get them for free, come to think of it, let's order 20 or 30, and he will owe us money !!

Rob_5419
19-Jul-2007, 08:44
It's a great idea Tim! Our maths is different from Canadian maths though ;)

Drop a line if you're in!

Andrew Wittner
30-Aug-2007, 08:04
Hi Rob - Do you use a Palm-OS PDA? If so then definitely check out my new Palm-OS app 'enLARGE' at www.wittnerphoto.biz - it lets you use a Palm PDA as a predictive exposure computer for your traditional enlarger. Best regards - Andrew Wittner, Melbourne Australia

Rob_5419
30-Aug-2007, 19:40
Andrew,

I have seen a Palm PC before. Are these called Blackberries? If I thought I could learn how to use one and keep it useful I would have got one years ago. Still, the programme looks good.

Is there any other way to use the algorithms on a standard computer as a predictive exposure computer for a Devere 504?