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View Full Version : Need advice on the Ebony 45SU



Pigeon
26-Jun-2007, 06:16
Hi all,

I have decided to purchase a camera with asymmetrical movements and the Ebony 45SU looks like the one. I will be using the camera mainly for landscapes and to a lesser extent for architecture. Lenses will be 65, 90, 150 and 240.

I am considering a special order in Mahogany to save on weight. Is this worthwhile or is the weight difference negligible? Would the Mahogany version be any less stable?

Secondly, as this will be a custom order, I am just querying if there are any quirks to this camera that I can resolve as part of this custom order. For instance, I read somewhere there was an issue re: the positioning of the tripod mount which made the camera less stable with bellows extended. Is there any truth to this?

Can anyone confirm whether the bag bellows (god, it's all starting to add up!!) is necessary for a 65mm lens or will a recessed board be adequate?

Maxwell or Satin Snow as replacement screen?

Any other quirks of this camera or general comments?

Brian Ellis
26-Jun-2007, 07:02
"I am considering a special order in Mahogany to save on weight. Is this worthwhile or is the weight difference negligible? Would the Mahogany version be any less stable?"

The weight difference is about 2 lbs. Whether that's worthwhile or not, you'll have to decide. I thought it was when I bought the SV45Ti (mahogany). But that camera wasn't as stable as I would have liked so I sold it and bought the SV45Te (ebony) thinking it might be more stable. It wasn't (so I sold it too). Based on that experience I'd say they're equally stable (or unstable, depending on your point of view).

"Maxwell or Satin Snow as replacement screen?"

Maxwell is a Fresnel, Satin Snow is a finely ground glass. Very different screens. I've never used the Satin Snow, most people who have them seem to like them a lot. I did use a Maxwell, it was great. I suspect the Maxwell is better but then it should be since it costs about $240 more than the Satin Snow.

"Can anyone confirm whether the bag bellows (god, it's all starting to add up!!) is necessary for a 65mm lens or will a recessed board be adequate? "

I had the bag bellows. It was a pain to use, in fact it didn't fit properly out of the box and had to be returned to Japan to be fixed. I'd try to avoid it if at all possible by first just trying your 65mm lens with only the universal bellows (which I assume you'll have on your camera) and no recessed board. See how happy you are with that. You can always add the bag bellows and/or a recessed board later if needed. However, someone who owns your camera and a 65mm lens can probably give you a better answer.

"I read somewhere there was an issue re: the positioning of the tripod mount which made the camera less stable with bellows extended. Is there any truth to this?"

I don't think so. If you go back to the thread to which you are referring I think you'll see others who explained why the tripod mount is in the position it's in.

"Any other quirks of this camera or general comments"

No, but I'm curious - what large format camera do you own now and what are your problems with it?

Don Hutton
26-Jun-2007, 07:21
The weight difference is about 2 lbs.The difference in weight is actually only 300 grams which equates about 10oz - a long way shy of 2lbs (ebony 45SU - 2.6kg vs mahogany at 2.3 kg).

turtle
26-Jun-2007, 07:27
I recently asked Ebony Cameras the exat same question for the 45SU and they explained that the physical property differences are negligible (rigidity, weight difference is about 3-400g as stated) and that the Ebony is easier to repair if damaged due to the oiled rather than lacquer finish. I felt from the email that Ebony was a fine choice on models where the weight saving is modest (unlike 10x8 and beyond where the weight saving of mahogany is substantial)

If buying used I would be happy with either and would not personally pay extra for ebony wood versions say of the RW45 but if it comes in ebony I would say sick with the std one.
Rgds

Don Hutton
26-Jun-2007, 07:33
I am considering a special order in Mahogany to save on weight. Is this worthwhile or is the weight difference negligible? Would the Mahogany version be any less stable?The weight difference is negligible (300 grams on a camera which is not the lightest anyway). I can't see why it should be less stable than the ebony wood version. However, I can tell you, that if you ever need to resell your camera, you will find that the resale value on an ebony model will be better (most people who buy an Ebony, want ebony...).


Secondly, as this will be a custom order, I am just querying if there are any quirks to this camera that I can resolve as part of this custom order. For instance, I read somewhere there was an issue re: the positioning of the tripod mount which made the camera less stable with bellows extended. Is there any truth to this? As Brian pointed out, some folks (myself included) are perfectly happy with where the tripod mount is.


Can anyone confirm whether the bag bellows (god, it's all starting to add up!!) is necessary for a 65mm lens or will a recessed board be adequate? You will find that a flat board on the universal bellows will likely be just fine. That lens does not have much movement anyway. If you wanted to use the full image circle of a 72mmXL, then the bag bellows become necessary. I own them and use them only very seldom.

Maxwell or Satin Snow as replacement screen?I've used many Ebony 4x5s and have been more than satisfied with the included GG/fresnel. I don't see a need to replace it. However, as Brian again pointed out, the Maxwell and Satin Snow are completely different. Satin Snow is just regular ground glass - a decently fine grind on it, but it is not a fresnel etc. Its biggest feature is low price. Maxwell screens are very nice but not inexpensive.

Tri Tran
26-Jun-2007, 07:55
Forget the 300 grms, you should opt for the Ebony wood. The Mahogany is to soft, try with your finger nail and you'll see.
Get the Ebony and make sure it looks like Ebony, smell like Ebony and taste like Abalone :) & better resale value as Don's stated.

Dave Aharonian
26-Jun-2007, 09:25
When I had a 45SU I purchased the bag bellows, then sold them as I wasn't using them. I used a 55mm and 75mm both on 11mm recessed boards and the universal bellows gave me enough movements to shoot architecture. The 55 didn't have much image circle to go anywhere, but the 75 with the universal bellows had about 90% of the movements that the bag bellows gave me.

Paul O
26-Jun-2007, 09:48
Hello. Excellent choice of camera! No quirks/issues at all - probably the quickest to use camera too! I have the wide bellows and find that they only come into their own with lenses in the sub-58mm focal length. I can use a 55mm on a recessed panel with the universal bellows but things are a bit tight - however, the image circle of this lens doesn't allow for much in the way of movements anyway. A 65mm lens will be fine with the universal bellows.
I would also second/third the advice to get the ebony wood version, the additional weight is a small price to pay for the finish/look of the camera ;)

Eric Leppanen
26-Jun-2007, 09:53
Check out Joe Cornish's modifications to his 45SU (he is also primarily a landscaper with occasional architecture):

http://www.joecornish.com/about/equipment.asp

He reduced weight on his camera by eliminating rear shift and swing as well as by using mahogany wood. Personally I use these movements on occasion but many landscapers get by perfectly well without them. I don't know how much weight is saved by these changes.

Another possible 45SU modification is to increase the length of the flatbed so that total extension is increased by around 30mm (to about 395mm). The drawbeck to this change is additional weight plus 30mm of additional depth, which may make the camera more difficult to fit in some backpacks. Since the standard 45SU has enough extension to close-focus conventional 300mm lenses and 400mm telephotos (it will also focus the Nikon 500T telephoto at infinity), the only benefit of this modification that I could think of is support for the Fuji 600T telephoto at infinity (384mm flange focal distance). However, you may want to check with 600T owners or the archives since reviews of the 600T seem to have been mixed, plus careful technique will be needed since the 45SU was not designed to be a long lens camera IMO (other cameras are more stable at full extension). There is a 600T listed on Ebay right now, BTW.

I personally hate using recessed lens boards (don't like using recessed controls, which I find difficult to read and access) so I frequently use the bag bellows with my SS80XL. I haven't recently used lenses shorter than the 80 so I can't give you feedback there.

marcmccalmont
26-Jun-2007, 10:28
I bought a used 45su in mahogany wish it was ebony, the mahogany is too soft and brittle.
I needed the wide angle bellows (not really a "Bag" bellows just a shorter universal bellows) to focus my 72XL, rear shifts are limited with these focal lengths as the bellows is not flexible enough to accomodate full shifts.
The metal work is superb
The stock screen is bright
Hope this helps
Marc

Brian Ellis
26-Jun-2007, 20:32
The difference in weight is actually only 300 grams which equates about 10oz - a long way shy of 2lbs (ebony 45SU - 2.6kg vs mahogany at 2.3 kg).

You're right, my mistake. The two pounds I mentioned is the difference between the Ebony SVTe vs SVTi weights. I went brain dead and forgot that he isn't buying an SV, he's buying a different model.

Baxter Bradford
27-Jun-2007, 05:27
The standard model is excellent, no modifications needed for the lenses you list. I leave my bag bellows fitted and use from 58mm to 210mm, except close-ups with latter. They wouldn't work with a 240mm.

At wider end, I am just about to collect a Wide-angle Fresnel screen back to use with 58-110mm lenses. The std one is usable, but dark in corners for 58 and 80mm lenses.

Personally I make good use the rear shift and swing, but am bigger and uglier than Joe!

Michael Mutmansky
27-Jun-2007, 06:21
Marc,

Do you want to trade? We may be able to come to an arrangement so that you can have one in Ebony...


---Michael

Pigeon
27-Jun-2007, 06:23
Great advice you guys.

Sounds like I should stick with Ebony wood, standard screen and perhaps no bag bellows (it's expensive!) to start with.

Just one last question...any advice re: focusing hoods/reflex viewfinders etc or is everyone using darkcloths? From memory, Horseman used to make some type of folding contraption...

Cheers.

LH1H17
28-Jun-2007, 07:35
Congratulations on your choice! I just got my Ebony 45SU last month (from Hiromi-san directly in Japan), in Ebony with standard universal bellows, and one custom modification: I had TWO tripod sockets in the base board instead of the default one. I use the camera with a two-socket quick release plate designed for telephoto lenses and it works great!

As for the wide bag bellows, I have the entire Nikon SW range and can say that it easy to focus BUT difficult to use movements with the 65mm and 75mm. However, given the limited image circles of those lenses on 4x5'', you should be fine unless you plan on a lot of roll film shooting. I am certainly satisfied with the wide angle capabilities of this camera. :cool:

butterfly
1-Jul-2007, 12:18
Hi,

Just my opinion.. just buy the camera as it is. Out of the box it is just the finest camera you will ever use, period.

If I had to sell everything I own, the ebony would be last on the list.

As supplied, I find the universal bellows, ground glass, tripod mount etc. nothing at all to bother about.

Just buy it and go take pictures!

Regards

Steve

marcmccalmont
2-Jul-2007, 12:42
Marc,

Do you want to trade? We may be able to come to an arrangement so that you can have one in Ebony...


---Michael

I wish I saw your note a week ago just shipped the camera to Tokyo to have it modified to accept a Horseman viewer
Marc