How to mount this in-barrel lens ?

[Ken Lee]

I just got a 250mm Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar f/4.5 in barrel.


http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/tech/czt.jpg

What would be the best way to mount it ? I would like to retain the original diaphragm. If not, I would want one with lots of blades: I have learned that much. I hope to use the lens for portraits and botanicals.

I have some older lenses, in older shutters, and don't mind the older shutters at all.

It is currently on a Sinar board, and while I prefer a Technika board, I can live with the Sinar board, since I have one.

Although I have a Sinar camera, I don't want to use the Sinar shutter device. I tried one, and found it rather cumbersome. Since I shoot in the field as often as indoors, it makes even less sense.

Many thanks.

[Nick_3536]

Mount it how? In a shutter or to a lensboard?

You could mount it to a lensboard the way it is now. Maybe place a packard behind it.

How big is the opening ? I bet it's marginal for a 96x98 Linhof board.

[Uusilehto]

Since you mentioned that you'd like to retain the original diaphragm, I'm assuming you meant that you wish to mount it into a shutter.
For a lens of that size, I'd say it is more or less impossible. Like Nick said, you'd be better off mount a Packard shutter on it. On a Technika, you will probably have to resort to front-mounting the Packard shutter. Just get some all-thread, drill four holes to the lensboard corners and use nuts to adjust the position.

Not sure why you don't like the Sinar shutter. I've found it to be a lifesaver on many occasions. Great range of speeds, accurate, self-cocking and impossible to leave open with a film holder in the camera (spring back <-> shutter cable automatically closes the shutter)
I don't think you can mount that with the shutter behind the front standard though. I had to build my own protruding lens board for the 360/4.5 Berthiot as there is only about 2mm of space between the lens board and the shutter.

[Hugo Zhang]

Lasse,

How do you like your Berthiot lens? I am looking at one too. I think it's a tessar design by the look of it. There is very little information out there.

Thanks.

[Uusilehto]

How do you like your Berthiot lens? I am looking at one too. I think it's a tessar design by the look of it. There is very little information out there.

Oh, yes, it's a Tessar alright.

I have only taken a few shots with it and those are undeveloped at the moment. Lots of things going on right now but I should be able to get to developing them in a few days. I'll send you the shots as I get them scanned.

EDIT: Here's a shot of the Berthiot on a Sinar Norma: http://www.kolumbus.fi/uusilehto/img/sinar/berthiot.jpg

[Gordon Moat]

I ran into a similar problem with my Zeiss 21cm f4.5 Tessar. After finding the mounting ring, and adapting it to a Linhof board, the shutter was the next issue. Unfortunately, what I found was that any shutter large enough would cost nearly as much as a much newer complete lens; so I ended up with a more modern Nikkor-W 180mm f5.6.

So the issue with large multi-speed shutters is that those with larger than 4x5 cameras seem to be driving the prices fairly high. The exceptions are a Packard, as others suggested, or if you can find one, a rollerblind shutter. The rollerblind shutter is basically a box with a focal plane shutter, and a hole large enough to fit over the front of the lens. Many have two or more shutter speeds. I believe Thornton Pickard was one, though perhaps other people can suggest others.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

[Nick_3536]

The real issue is how cheap lenses in shutters are on the used market.

Unless you really like a barrel lenses having to pay some one to mount it makes it a very iffy idea from the cost view point. How much would a fairly modern Xenar cost used? I bet between the cost of a shutter and mounting the prices would be similar.

The ULF users have much less choice in newer stuff. So it makes more sense.

Now if it's something like a G-Claron that even I can mount into a shutter then it's different but most lenses don't make sense to use anything but a packard or other basic setup.

[Ken Lee]

Sorry I was unclear. I would like to mount the lens in a shutter. If it costs a bit, I can always sell something else that I'm not using these days.

It would be nice to have the lens on a Technika board, but that is of secondary importance.

At this time, I have a preference for this line of lenses, and would not be interested in something more... modern.

[David A. Goldfarb]

If you mount it in a shutter the normal way (maybe it would fit in a Copal 3, which could fit in a Technika board without any exotic mount), then you have to use the aperture blades in the shutter. The aperture is part of the barrel and isn't easily transplanted to a shutter.

The other option is to front mount (i.e., leave it in the barrel and have an adapter ring made so that the whole lens in barrel screws into the front of the shutter) it on a larger shutter like an Ilex 5, which would require an extension lensboard and custom mounting ring, if you want to use a Technika lensboard. An Ilex 5 is a really big shutter. An Ilex 5 shutter does fit on a Sinar board without special adaptation.

For what you want and what you have, it's probably really easiest to use it in front of the Sinar shutter.

[Nick_3536]

http://www.skgrimes.com/lensmount/24art/index.htm

If I'm understanding the webpage right you're looking at

$250+ for the labour plus
$475 for the #3 shutter.

Plenty of Xenars etc older then then Jena. It's your money.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

A 250/4.5 Tessar won't fit full aperture into a Copal 3, and I think a no. 4 shutter will be marginal. You will probably need a no. 5 shutter (Alphax, Betax, Compound). These big no. 5 shutters will not fit straight onto a Technika board, only a specially constructed "stand-off" mount on a Technika board.

Plan on spending more than $750 for the mounting, shutter and lensboard. I would think twice (if not three times) before sinking that kind of money into a Jena Tessar.

[Ken Lee]

$750 is a lot of money. Sounds like I should find a nice, used, Sinar shutter.

It's not that they are old. The one I bought looks fairly new, and is coated.

The Carl Zeiss Jena Tessars simply have a quality that I admire (http://www.kennethleegallery.com/html/tessar/).

[Shen45]

Ken I particularly like the older glass and very often it comes in a shutterless barrel or if you are lucky a working studio shutter. I spent time with Jim Galli when I was last in America and he is close to the guru on old glass and his main solution is a packard shutter.

I have a smallish front standard on my Empire State but with a standoff frame [about 1/4"] I can use a 6"x6" packard that has the ability to take a very large collection of barrel lenses. They [packard's] are not the ideal setup but 1/25th seems almost spot on for a f4.5 lens wide open. The added advantage is you can make the opening for the lensboard on the packard big enough to take the larger retaining rings.

[Ken Lee]

How do you use a Packard Shutter on a Sinar P ? That is, how do you fix it to the camera, etc. ?

Do they only allow one shutter-speed: 1/25 ?

[Shen45]

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=9789

Hi Ken have a look at this thread it may help you.

Steve

[Shen45]

Usually 1/25th and time. Any length of exposure you like.

Steve

[Shen45]

Usually 1/25th and time. Any length of exposure you like.

Steve

[Hugo Zhang]

"I have only taken a few shots with it and those are undeveloped at the moment. Lots of things going on right now but I should be able to get to developing them in a few days. I'll send you the shots as I get them scanned.

EDIT: Here's a shot of the Berthiot on a Sinar Norma: http://www.kolumbus.fi/uusilehto/img/sinar/berthiot.jpg
__________________
Lasse Nylund "

Lasse,

I will be waiting for your pictures. Since only you can see your contact prints, I would like to know your impression of the image quality of this lens. I am looking at a 500mm f/6 beast, much larger than yours. I know I have too many lenses already, but I am hopelessly and unfaithfully drawn to the unknown.

[Hugo Zhang]

Here is my Packard shutter box made by a dear friend from this forum.:)

[Turner Reich]

It's too bad that it costs nearly a grand to get a barrel into a shutter these days. So many nice, mint, lenses would be fantastic in a shutter. The places to get it done are very limited too and that's the problem.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Really, the Sinar shutter is a better bet for a Sinar than a Packard shutter. With a Packard shutter you need to find a way to mount it to the back of a lensboard, route the hose (and sync if you have it) through the front of the lensboard, and given the size of the Sinar board, the hole on a 5x5" Packard shutter is relatively small. Maybe you could rig something up with an extra intermediate standard. The Sinar shutter you just clip in, you get multiple speeds and sync, and you're good to go.

Packards are better on cameras with large lensboards, so you can use them with big portrait lenses. All the better if the lensboards are wood, so that you can set them up easily with woodworking tools.