PDA

View Full Version : Which would you choose and why?



radchad
14-Jun-2007, 14:18
I am looking to buy my first 4x5 camera. I have experience with them, but i wanna know which you'd get. I dont care about gears or stuff i want a nice camera, that looks nice, is Very light weight, and helps me become a better photographer.

When I mean light weight, something light. I used an old kodak from 1940something, and it was a ton.

would you have a:
CAMBO SCIIRS in EX condition for $225
4X5 CAMBO SOFT COVER in EX condition for $245
4X5 SINAR F1 WITH CHROME RAIL in EX condition for $339
4X5 SINAR F2 WITH METERING BACK in BGN condition for $379-$339
4X5 TOYO VIEW 45 CX In EX condition for $325
or
a Bender 4x5 kit for$330

I kind like the bender because of the wooden look, but would like one of the others above.

So which would you get?
Thanks
Chad

steve simmons
14-Jun-2007, 14:33
Before buying a camera may I suggest some reading

Getting Started in Large Format

in the Free Articles section of the View Camera web site

www.viewcamera.com

Good intro books

Using the View Camera that I wrote or User's Guide to the View Camera by Jim Stone. Check your library.

You should not select a camera until you do some reading and thinking about what you want to photograph, what lenses you will be using, and what movements you need.

If you can make it come to at least the trade show at the View Camera conference at the Brown Hotel in Louisville June 28-July 1. You will have a chance to see many cameras, play with them, and ask a lot of questions.

steve simmons
publisher, view camera magazine
www.viewcamera.com

Bob Gentile
14-Jun-2007, 14:42
Dittos to what Steve said.

David A. Goldfarb
14-Jun-2007, 15:07
At that price the F2 is the most bang for the buck in terms of functionality and ease of use. The Bender would be the lightest, but an F-series Sinar is fairly portable--a little bulky but about as heavy as a Linhof Technika. There are three ways of packing it, depending on how compact or how ready-to-shoot you want to be.

Frank Petronio
14-Jun-2007, 16:09
Those are all good camera and none of them will impede you from learning how to be a better photographer... you can make the finest pictures ever with any of them.

The Cambo is a great deal at $225 but the Sinar might be something you could expand with down the road, it is a very flexible professional system. A BGN camera may or maynot be a bargain...

It really won't matter, your first 4x5 camera should be like your first girlfriend... someone nice you can grow with, but you aren't going to get married...

Your best deal will be buying an outfit from somebody unloading a complete package, lens, holders, tripod, etc. even if some of it is redundant you can try it all and eBay the leftovers.

Have fun.

Ernest Purdum
14-Jun-2007, 16:09
I certainly agree with the books suggestion. Books are cheap (comparatively), cameras expensive.

Aside from that, two thoughts come to mind:

How much need of movements do you foresee? If landscapes and/or portraits are your forte, you won't need much and a rather basic field camera will be a good choice. If you have an interest in architecture, you'll want a versatile monorail.

If you buy used, there is no need to consider your starting camera as a lifetime investment. It may teach you what you really need and can then probably be sold for close to your original cost.

John Kasaian
14-Jun-2007, 16:55
Something you should consider is which lens you intend on using, and if the bellows will accomodate such lenses. Probably not an issue with the camers you've suggested, but its still something to consider if either extreme WA or very long lenses float your boat.

Ron Marshall
14-Jun-2007, 17:04
They are all good cameras, but you may be happier with a lighter and more portable field camera. That said, I would go with the F2 if I had to choose between those listed.

This site has a review of most of the modern cameras:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/roundup4x5.html

vann webb
14-Jun-2007, 17:32
It is just amazing to me that you can buy a sinar F2 for less than a point and shoot digital camera would cost you at Ritz Camera, etc.

But anyway, I would only say that of the cameras that you are looking at, the sinar has one advantage that probably stands above many other cameras in that practically everything that Sinar has made for very many years will fit your camera and there are tons and tons of Sinar parts and accessories out there since so many people used them. So you will always be able to reconfigure or get running as they say. Sinar doesn't hose their users by constantly switching from this thing to that with no compatibility in between. JMHO.

Brian C. Miller
14-Jun-2007, 18:51
If you absolutely love making things yourself, the Bender is nice. Otherwise I would get one of the other cameras. My first 4x5 was a Graphlex Super Graphic, and I'm still using it. I'm of the opinion that your first LF camera is one you can physically fiddle with first, then buy it. Each camera model is unique, and its good to get one that "clicks" with you.

Dave_B
14-Jun-2007, 18:55
The only mistake you can make is paralysis by analysis. Buy one, play with it, let it teach you and sell it for about as much as you paid for it. After a few hundred photographs with ANY of these cameras, you will know as much as 99% of the rest of us on this forum. Good luck and have fun.
Cheers,
Dave B.

Brian Ellis
14-Jun-2007, 19:04
What do you plan to photograph and where? It's diffciult to recommend a camera without knowing what you plan to do with it. However, unless you're a studio photographer or at least someone who doesn't stray any distance from the car I wouldn't recommend any of the cameras in this list. The Toyo is the only field camera in the bunch and also the only one that I'd consider to be light weight, which you say is important to you. The others are monorails that can be used in the field with varying degrees of difficulty and weigh at least 6+ pounds (not 100% sure about the Bender but I think that's its weight range). And I wouldn't recommend the Toyo even for field work because of the lack of back movements.

Amund BLix Aaeng
15-Jun-2007, 01:15
The Bender is actually wery lightweight, 3 lbs. :)

Geert
15-Jun-2007, 01:23
Chad,

don't buy the Bender a go for something really rigid with more options for the movements.
I saw a friends' Bender kit and saw a lot of problems on stability.

G

Armin Seeholzer
15-Jun-2007, 03:09
I can also not recomand a Bender the rest should be fine and the best would be one of the Sinars. Its a pro system camera wich can be expandet to every need!

Good luck, Armin

Anthony Lewis
15-Jun-2007, 03:42
i got into LF 12 years ago when the local dealer was selling Sinar F2 new for $2000AUD - I new very little what I was buying and very little about LF. I now have an excellent P2 an lots of accessories. Since then I have been on ebay and bought lots of Sinar gear at very good prices. The beauty of Sinar is that it is totally modular, and there is no limit to the widest lens or the longest lens that you can use. With Sinar, you have no limitations - macro, wide, long lenses. The only limitation of the Sinar system is that it is not for backpacking - even the F2. I now have a Toho which is perfect for backpacking. All monorail cameras. All my gear is second hand, except for the original F2, the Toho, and my lenses. I only buy new lenses. All the second hand gear is excellent and I bought it all on ebay.

No one camera will do everything. All I can say is that I am very happy with what I have bought. It is a great kit, i can shoot anything - it's only my ability that is the limitation. Over the years it has cost me a fair bit, but then agin I have spread the cost over 15 years.

Frank Petronio
15-Jun-2007, 05:03
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBI%3AIT&viewitem=&item=280123403313&rd=1&rd=1 I don't know the seller

These used Linhofs are going for dirt cheap given their quality construction and design (way beyond any Cambo/Japanese/Sinar F series).

The mad thing is that monorails are a bargain because the perception is that you can't use them outdoors, where most hobby photographers want to shoot. Which is total BS of course. Maybe they are a little bulkier and heavier than some wooden box made from endangered tropical wood... but for a fraction of the price of a status symbol you can have a solid and capable camera. You look young and strong so carrying an extra pound or two isn't such a big deal.

scrichton
15-Jun-2007, 05:48
Those Linhof's are beautiful. I have a sinar F1 and apart from the availability of the shutter panel there is nothing to let it run with the big boys. However the linhofs are very modern accurate and overall strong cameras.

As frank has said a monorail is easily taken outside, however the linhof will be much more suited to it over the other suggestions being made.

Greg Lockrey
15-Jun-2007, 06:04
That Linholf LM is a sweet camera that Frank linked to. So far it's a great buy too. I'm tempted....;)


Forget the Bender at $330. You can get them already assembled for under $100. They are fun to put together on a cold snowy winter day. I have one set up in the "sales room" at the studio for a conversation starter piece.

Peter Lewin
15-Jun-2007, 06:11
Given your comment about very light, my first choice would be a wooden folding field camera, such as a used Wista or Tachihara [sp.?]. But my first view camera was a Sinar F1, and either the F1 or F2 would serve your needs well. When Sinar brought these out, the "F" was for field, they were meant to be Sinar's portable models (there is some slight difference on the rear standard, otherwise they are the same camera). The only differences vs. a field camera are weight (the Sinar is just over 6 lbs, most "wista-like" wooden folders around 4 lbs), and the compactness when folded. The wooden ones become a box, on the Sinar you fold the standards so that they are parallel to the rail, one over the other, with the bellows compressed. I dumped my Sinar in a top-loadiing backpack, put the lenses in wrap in the same compartment, and off I went. And the virtue of the Sinar is that their system is totally expandable, and parts seem to crop up for sale at absurdly low prices (this is a Swiss-engineered system, after all!) and frequently.