Can I reuse fixer?

[vijaylff]

Folks,

The next in my line of newbie developing questions - I know I can reuse my stop bath (Ilford) until it changes color, and I'm not planning on reusing developer. But what about my fixer (Ilford Rapid Fixer)? Can I reuse it by bottling it after each use? I'm using the Unicolor drum method and using the 8x10 print drum to develop 4x5 negatives.

Thanks,
Vijay

[Toyon]

Fixer can be reused. There are three methods of estimating its useful life that I know about. 1) you can use the manufacturer's recommendation about how many square inches/CM of film can be processed before the fixer is exhausted, 2) you can use Hypo-Chek a chemical that is dropped into the fixer to determine degree of fixer exhaustion or, 3) a conservative, but easy method is to watch the color of the fixer, as it starts to yellow (fairly quickly) it is becoming exhausted,

[Andrew O'Neill]

I use the same fixer. You can reuse it. When I am developing film (HP5+) I note how long it takes to remove the pink colour. If it hasn't removed within a 5 min fix time, I dump it into a 4 litre bottle and use for test film/prints. I may start mixing up my own non-hardening fix from scratch again as Ilford's price is high.

[Donald Qualls]

Using fixer that's too weak for film to fix prints is a bad idea -- it's a very fine way to ensure your prints deteriorate sooner than they need to.

I've reused fixer in the past by tracking film area processed, but for the past couple years I've been mixing my own from hypo crystals and sodium sulfite, at half strength (60 g/L of hypo instead of 120 g/L as cited by Ansel in "The Negative"), using it for one session (half a dozen rolls in a half liter, maximum) and then discarding it; the fixing time is determined from clearing tests done with the same solution; fix for twice clearing time (I find eight minutes at 70 F works well with this half-strength solution). The hypo crystals are cheap enough this doesn't offend even my penuriousness, and I'm assured that the fixer I make is always fresh.

This is *not* recommended for T-grain, Delta, etc. "designer" grain films, however; what I suggest for those is to use two baths, giving each 1.5 times the clearing time (which is *much* more effective than a single bath for 3x clearing), or use rapid fixer according to the chemical makers recommendation. And definitely do *not* reuse plain hypo fixer for designer grain films; the high iodide content reduces fixer effectiveness much more quickly than conventional film or paper.

[Bobf]

I can add two other ways to check fixer for exhaustion. Simplest is to buy Tetenal fixer test strips. These indicate the silver content and pH of the fixer.

The other way is the clearing time test. Drop a small piece of film (preferably not Tmax or Delta films which take longer to clear than other films) into some fixer and note how long it takes to become clear with gentle continuous agitation (if you use 35mm as well as LF, the leader from rolls of 35mm are free but it should be the same film type each time). You do this in daylight: it does not matter that the film has been exposed to the light, but it must not be developed.

Make a note of the time on the fixer bottle. Do the same test each time you want to use the fixer and when the time to clear becomes twice the original time, you know the fixer is becoming exhausted and it should be discarded. In general, the film should clear in around 30-60 seconds in fresh film strength fixer. In general, film should be fixed for three times the clearing time, but as pointed out earlier, Tmax and Delta films take longer and should be extended to six times.

Have fun, Bob.

[cyrus]

Reusing chemicals is generally not a good idea because you're flirting with disaster for the sake of a measely few bucks - a very small percentage of the total expenditure involved in taking a photo and printing it. And you won't see the disaster until a few years later.
Don't reuse fixer used for film on paper.
Reusing stop is also not really a good idea - especially when all you have to do is make a fresh batch of stop by making very mild solution of white vinegar (acetic acid) an water. That's all it is - plain white vinegar.

[C. D. Keth]

This probaly isn't that helpful but I asked the same question of a teacher once and he told me, "You can reuse fixer until you can't reuse it anymore."

[Brian Ellis]

Reusing chemicals is generally not a good idea because you're flirting with disaster for the sake of a measely few bucks - a very small percentage of the total expenditure involved in taking a photo and printing it. And you won't see the disaster until a few years later.
Don't reuse fixer used for film on paper.
Reusing stop is also not really a good idea - especially when all you have to do is make a fresh batch of stop by making very mild solution of white vinegar (acetic acid) an water. That's all it is - plain white vinegar.

I have to disagree with this on both counts, stop and fix. I reuse stop many many times, no reason not to. It's easy to tell when it's going bad. Ditto for fix. With fix I keep track of the number of sheets processed and dump it when I've exceeded the manufacturer's recommended number of square inches. Again, no reason not to. It isn't so much a matter of the money though I do believe in the principle of "waste not want not," it's the environmental concerns with dumping a gallon of fix every session plus saving the time and trouble of mixing new batches of chemicals every session when there's no need to do so.

[cyrus]

I have to disagree with this on both counts, stop and fix. I reuse stop many many times, no reason not to. It's easy to tell when it's going bad. Ditto for fix. With fix I keep track of the number of sheets processed and dump it when I've exceeded the manufacturer's recommended number of square inches. Again, no reason not to. It isn't so much a matter of the money though I do believe in the principle of "waste not want not," it's the environmental concerns with dumping a gallon of fix every session plus saving the time and trouble of mixing new batches of chemicals every session when there's no need to do so.



I guess I was confused about what sort or "reuse" of fixer the original poster is referring to, versus what other posters are referring to:

1-Reusing fixer during the same session of film development to fix multiple rolls or sheets of film (no problem, as long as you limit the reuse to avoid exhaustion - using exhaution checkers etc is useful here.)

OR

2- Storing the used, working strength fixer and using it during a different session days later (not at all a good idea - working strength fixer will oxidize quickly even if it wasn't exhausted when you bottled it up for storage - The tray life of diluted fixer is 4-5 hours. Once bottled up, I doubt it can survive much longer no matter how much you tighten up the bottle cap.)

You don't need to mix a new batch of chems everytime you want to develop/print.You just dilute the stock solution to working solution strength by adding water. You have to do that with developers like D76 anyway, and you also have to do that with the fix anyway, so there's no real time savings involved.

Anyway, here's a suggestion for the initial poster if you really want to conserve chems while also getting the most archival effect: when your fixer has been used a few times, only reuse the old stuff for an "initial" fix bath, followed by a quick rinse and fresh fix bath. Then, as the fresh bath is used a few times, use that as the initial fix bath etc etc

You can tell of stop is exhausted only if you get the stuff that changes color - which is more expensive than plain vinegar hence defeating the whole financial point of reusing stop IMHO

[Andrew O'Neill]

You can tell of stop is exhausted only if you get the stuff that changes color

you can also tell when a stop bath of the non-indicating type is exhausted when the print no longer feels "squeaky" between your fingers.

[vijaylff]

Thanks for all the informative replies.

-Vijay

[Brian Ellis]

"Storing the used, working strength fixer and using it during a different session days later (not at all a good idea - working strength fixer will oxidize quickly even if it wasn't exhausted when you bottled it up for storage - The tray life of diluted fixer is 4-5 hours. Once bottled up, I doubt it can survive much longer no matter how much you tighten up the bottle cap."

Once again, I respectfully disagree. I've never heard that the tray life of working solution fix is only 4-5 hours though I wouldn't argue about it and I'm open to accepting that if you have a source. But if that's the case then not only shouldn't used fix be stored between sessions, we should be mixing a fresh batch every 4-5 hours in a single session, which maybe is what everyone else does but if so I haven't heard of it.

For paper I used to use the two bath system of fixing, in which one fix bath is stored and reused. Since the two bath method is commonly recommended, and since that method of necessity requires the storing of used fix, it would seem that there must be no problem inherent in storing and reusing fix, at least with that system.

While tightening the bottle cap is certainly a good idea, the most important factor (I think) in preventing oxidization is keeping the storage bottle full. I keep a gallon of used fix stored in one gallon jugs so there's little air that gets in the bottles.

[Nick_3536]

I use two bath for films also.

I guess something like Ansel's plain Hypo fixer would be the only thing that shouldn't be kept. But if you are mixing your own hypo based fixer I would expect you to know that it won't keep. But the more common fixer formulas keep fairly well. That's the point of the sodium sulfite.

[Andrew O'Neill]

working strength fixer will oxidize quickly even if it wasn't exhausted when you bottled it up for storage - The tray life of diluted fixer is 4-5 hours. Once bottled up, I doubt it can survive much longer no matter how much you tighten up the bottle cap."

I have bottled working strength fix that has sat for a couple months and still clears film.

[Ole Tjugen]

...
2- Storing the used, working strength fixer and using it during a different session days later (not at all a good idea - working strength fixer will oxidize quickly even if it wasn't exhausted when you bottled it up for storage - The tray life of diluted fixer is 4-5 hours. Once bottled up, I doubt it can survive much longer no matter how much you tighten up the bottle cap.)...

Cyrus,

What kind of fixer are you using? The only fixer I know of with that bad keeping properties is the "plain hypo fix", and there are lots of other good reasons not to use that. Even adding a tablespoon of sodium sulfite per liter of fixer extends the tray life to several days.

I've had fixer that's been left in a tray while I was offshore for two weeks. When I got back it was all crytallised and hard! Just as an experiment I added water to the full original volume, and tested the resulting solution: It still worked...

[cyrus]

Cyrus,

What kind of fixer are you using? The only fixer I know of with that bad keeping properties is the "plain hypo fix", and there are lots of other good reasons not to use that.

Yeah that's the one. You mean the other commercial stuff has a different life span? I;ve been mixing my own for a while and I do add sulfite but I still would not trust it for paper. For film, you can see the clearing. Its just not financially worth the hassle IMHO.

[cyrus]

While tightening the bottle cap is certainly a good idea, the most important factor (I think) in preventing oxidization is keeping the storage bottle full. I keep a gallon of used fix stored in one gallon jugs so there's little air that gets in the bottles.

Glass bottles can be a great help to since some of the plastic bottles are not actually impermeable to air.

[Armin Seeholzer]

"2- Storing the used, working strength fixer and using it during a different session days later (not at all a good idea - working strength fixer will oxidize quickly even if it wasn't exhausted when you bottled it up for storage - The tray life of diluted fixer is 4-5 hours. Once bottled up, I doubt it can survive much longer no matter how much you tighten up the bottle cap.)"
What a bulls****
I use my fixer sometimes over one year or not much less I only put from time to time a bit of new fixer in it and use the Tetenal teststrips from time to time and use 2 bath fix.
I did it in the past with Tetenal Superfix and now with Ilfords Rapid Fixer!

Sorry but Fix can be very old and still works fine!

Armin Seeholzer

[Ron Marshall]

I have bottled working strength fix that has sat for a couple months and still clears film.

Same here, many times. I always run a clearing time test before using it, with thin strips cut from a 4x5 sheet.

[fhovie]

As long as they work - I toss my developer when I don't get good blacks in 20 seconds on Fiber paper or in 10 seconds on RC paper - about 20 8x10 per liter I guess. If I use it longer, I will not get consistent blacks and contrast.

I don't save stop bath - too cheap - It is usually exhausted anyway - call me wasteful

Fixer - My TF-3 fixes everything in 30 seconds - when it takes 40 seconds - I dump it - it is SOOOO embarrassing to have a print brown out in a year - then I wash them plenty

Dumping all my chems everytime is way wasteful - keeping them too long is just as bad