Lens help!!

[radchad]

Hi,
So i am a pro with 35mm lenes, but a total noob with 4x5. I am on KEH, and looking at used lenses. I am looking for like a 150 to 210 in like the $100-$300 range. I am not expecting a really great lens. I am having trouble with all of the secret lingo of lenses. Like 65 mount, aposymnar etc. All i know is copal size and lengths. What is a barrel lens, and how do i know what the lenses stats are like f-stops and shutter speeds? I also want a big image circle so i can use my tilts and such how do i know the image circle size?
thanks
chad

[Mark Sawyer]

This is a nice little table for reference to common lenses, that lists maximum aperture and image circle:

http://www.cocam.co.uk/CoCamWS/Equip/LFlensSpec.htm

A barrel lens has no shutter, but usually (not always) has a diaphragm.

[John Kasaian]

203mm f/7.7 Ektar is all you need to know---expect to pay about $1/mm ;)

[Brian Ellis]

Large format lenses aren't manufactured with shutters, the lenses are mounted in a separate shutter and the shutter isn't made by the same company that makes the lenses. A barrel lens is a lens that isn't mounted in a shutter so if you bought such a lens you'd either have to buy a shutter separately and have it mounted on the lens or use it without a shutter (feasible only if you habitually use shutter speeds of about a second or longer, in which case you can take the lens cap on and off for the required time or deal with the lack of a shutter in other ways).

Copal is the brand name of the shutters sold by the principal manufacturer of shutters for large format lenses. In the old days there were many other brands - Compur, Prontor, Alphax, etc. but no more. Copal shutters come in three sizes - 0, 1, and 3. 0 is the smallest and lightest, 3 the biggest and heaviest. There used to be a Copal 00 but it's no longer made. On the KEH site that you mention you'll see mm numbers after their lens and shutter listings. These numbers refer to the size of the hole that needs to be cut for the shutter in the lens board. That's presumably the meaning of the "65 mount" that you mention, i.e. that the lens board hole size for a lens mounted in that shutter would need to be 65mms in diameter.

"Aposymnar" (it's actually "Apo Symmar") is a line of lenses made by Schneider Optics, one of the three leading manufacturers of lenses for large format cameras still in business. The other two are Rodenstock and Fuji though Fuji doesn't have a U.S. distributor so you don't see their lenses as much here as the other two companies'. Nikon dropped out of the LF lens business a couple years ago but their lenses are still available used and have a reputation equal to that of Schneider, Rodenstock, and Fuji.

You sometimes will know "what the lenses stats are like f-stops and shutter speeds" by the listing for the lens. Usually any seller of a lens will say what the largest aperture is, e.g. f5.6, f9, etc. Shutter speeds usually aren't listed, I guess because shutter speeds of more than about 1/60 aren't used a whole lot in LF photography and any shutter made will have at least that fast a shutter speed.

Image circle size is also sometimes quoted for a lens by its seller. If it isn't you can ask the seller or you can go to the manufacturer's web site in the case of Schneider and maybe Rodenstock. Schneider's web site (www.schneideroptics.com) has detailed information about all of its lenses, old and new. If the manufacturer doesn't have such a web site then you do a little digging but it isn't usually hard to find this kind of information just by Googling on the lens name if nothing else.

With respect to 150 or 210 lenses in the $150 - $300 range, you should have a wide choice, these are among the two most common of LF lens focal lengths. I've always liked the G Claron line of lenses made by Schneider for a combination of small, light, sharp, and inexpensive. I've used both the 150 and the 210 G Clarons and they were excellent lenses. I think you could find a G Claron in either of these sizes within your price range. But there are many others.

Before jumping into LF photography you might want to do a little reading about LF photography in general and lenses in particular. There's a lot of information available in the articles section of this site and in any of the various books about LF photography such as those written by Leslie Stroebel, Steve Simmons, Jim Stone, and others, also at numerous other places on the web.

[Ron Marshall]

Hi,
So i am a pro with 35mm lenes, but a total noob with 4x5. I am on KEH, and looking at used lenses. I am looking for like a 150 to 210 in like the $100-$300 range. I am not expecting a really great lens. I am having trouble with all of the secret lingo of lenses. Like 65 mount, aposymnar etc. All i know is copal size and lengths. What is a barrel lens, and how do i know what the lenses stats are like f-stops and shutter speeds? I also want a big image circle so i can use my tilts and such how do i know the image circle size?
thanks
chad

65 is the hole diameter in millimeters that the shutter fits into in the lensboard. 65 is a copal 3 shutter. Copal 0 and 1 sizes are on the front page of this site, I can never remember them.

KEH is a good place to buy from. If you need any info phone and ask. They are helpful. Also Midwest Photo.

The following chart, from the front page of this site has the stats on most modern lenses with an image circle large enough to cover 4x5.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF4x5in.html

There is a 210 listed on this site for $285:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=26280

[Nick_3536]

KEH lists hole size because they sell lots of different shutters. Seikos can be slightly different size. Older shutters even more.

No problem after you pick a lens wander over to the lensboard section of the KEH website and look for a board with the same size hole.

FWIW I bought a Fuji 150mm F/5.6 W [first version] for less then $170. "Bargain" condition but looks mint. Coverage of this model is more then enough for 5x7. You shouldn't have much trouble finding a good lens in your price range.

[Gene McCluney]

FWIW, in 35mm lenses, the "ultra-fast" prime and zoom lenses are usually considered the "premium" quality lenses, however in LF lenses, the maximum aperture of a lens is not a sign of sharpest or best. However, it is a sign of largeness and heaviness. Many people choose lenses of modest maximum aperture in order to make their location kit more managable in weight. These lenses are just as capable of highest-quality images as the fast f5.6 ones are.

[Mark Sawyer]

Good advice so far, but keep in mind that a smaller maximum aperture (the G-Claron is f/9) will throw a darker image on the ground glass for focusing. Many say it's no problem, but it definitely makes a difference. A good darkcloth, focusing loupe, and a bright ground glass (I like the Satin Snow) will all help.