My Technika V arrived

[village idiot]

- And it is absolutely thrashed. All four rear standard extension studs are sheared off, the bellows are ripped, The rear latch is broken off, and one of the rear standard locking screws is sheared off.

All damage appears to have happened during shipping.

I am disgusted. The packing job was grossly substandard given the weight and value of the contents, there wasn't even so much as a "fragile" sticker put on the box, and this is from a supposedly reputable NYC store.

I will post some photos when I calm down.

Adorama is going to get an earful tomorrow morning.

[davidb]

Sorry to hear about this.

[Matt Miller]

That's terrible. Sounds like it fell off of a truck with all of that damage. I hope they make it right for you. Please let us know.

[David A. Goldfarb]

More like it was run over by a truck. That sounds pretty horrific. Didn't they ship the camera closed? It's a pretty solid package when it's closed up.

[BrianShaw]

What a disappointment. I hope resolving the situation isn't too traumatic for y ou.

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

If it was shipped by UPS take it to an UPS office and make a claim first. Once they inspect the box and the condition of the contents (and given that this is a very solid camera that should not suffer this kind of damage by just simply dropping the box) they will file a claim and refund you your money. They might let you keep the damaged camera, so could use it for parts once you get your money refunded.

I understand why they dont put fragile stickers, UPS is famous for really mistreating itmes labeld as fragile.....

[Bob Gentile]

What a shame!

I'll be surprised if Adorama gives you any trouble -- they'll probably be pretty disappointed to hear about this too.

Sorry to hear it happened.

[village idiot]

Hope this works...

[BrianShaw]

YIKES! :eek:

[Dave Parker]

Looks like the box got ran over or crushed in shipping by something packed next to it that fell over, file a claim with UPS and also call Adorama, looks like you have a very good claim for this one.

Dave

[Bob Gentile]

Ouch!!!

[Steven Barall]

That really is horrible. I would be apoplectic.

When I was in the photo agency business we told clients not to return film to us via UPS because the UPS handling machines would tear the packages open and destroy the contents. The funny thing is that the UPS guys would deliver the packages and pretend that nothing was wrong even though the packages had tire tracks on them and were ripped to shreds with stuff falling out.

Anyway, good luck to you.

[Josh Z.]

Rip.

[Bob Salomon]

Did you file a report with the driver if the box arrived showing damage? Title to the merchadise passes to the buyer when it leaves the loading dock at the shipper.

[Frank Petronio]

I've had stuff stolen from UPS boxes before, and the driver would leave an empty box with a slash in it on my doorstep like it was all OK.

But this sounds pretty funky. Why would Adorama not package it properly and how would the bellows get torn? Kind of bizzare.

[Donald Qualls]

That torn bellows could have happened in shipping only *after* the other damage allowed the camera to open. Honestly, that looks more like intentional vandalism than accidental damage -- like someone opened the box, pried open the camera without bothering to look for the latch, and slashed the bellows with box knife.

Sure hope Adorama paid for insurance (as they certainly should with a package that valuable).

FWIW, it does look repairable, but a Linhoff replacement bellows is going to cost a mint...

[scrichton]

All mail services are abysmal all round the world. Pay their f*@!ing wages and they still do this stuff!

Sorry for the language but couriers and mail people have a lot to answer for. Our local postman thought his job was too hard so he burned all the mail on the beach daily for 2 weeks. Until someone found a mass of burnt letters floating out towards the north sea.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I'm not sure how repairable it is without another Tech V to cannibalize. The bellows can be replaced with a new bellows, but I think the rear posts on the Master Tech are a little thinner than on the Tech V. The mechanism had to be redesigned to work with the flap on the top of the MT body.

[village idiot]

Well, I am both amazed and pleasantly surprised. I was on the phone with Adorama at 6:30 Pacific time this morning. I explained the situation, and was told to pack the camera up and return it to them for full refund and/or exchange, my option. To say that I am relieved is understatement. I am of course very disappointed, as I was looking forward to shooting some film this weekend, and now I am back to trying to find a camera. Damn.

[village idiot]

Bob,

In hindsight, I believe the driver knew there was damage to the contents of the box when he delivered it. He came up to the doorholding the box by both sides, with the electronic "signing box thingy" (technical term) covering the top of the package. After signing for the camera, and as I was back inside my front door, I thought to myself, "Gee, that's odd, UPS ALWAYS asks me to spell my last name, because my signature is unreadable, and that guy didn't even ask what my name was."

When I logged onto UPS to view the tracking info, my name did show as the signer, however.

Maybe UPS' motto should be " What can brown do to you today?"

[Scott Davis]

Oh, you entirely have my sympathies. I learned my UPS lesson the hard way - I NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER EVER EVER use them if I am given a choice, and if I am not given a choice, I'll buy from someone who will if the item is not sufficiently unique. I shipped a large quantity of personal goods out to California from Washington DC when I moved to San Francisco for a job. UPS managed to damage and/or destroy fully 25% of what I shipped. I called to make a claim, and the claims inspector who came out to examine my boxes told me that it was my fault that the boxes were inadequately packed, and that they would not honor any claim on the items regardless of the fact that the computer I shipped (in an OEM shipping box no less) had soldered circuits knocked off the motherboard, a dent in the metal casing to the CPU, and the box itself had a hole in it big enough to put my foot through (I'm guessing the box was rammed by a forklift). He then attempted to physically intimidate me (He was 6'4" and built like a pro football player) by shaking his fist at me and getting in my face.

I was eventually able to get them to accept my claim, and they did pay, but it took six months of negotiation with them to get them to pay up. The long and the short of it is that UPS doesn't give a flying f*** at a rat's a** about individual customers. To get anything resembling customer service out of them you need to be a corporate customer with a large monthly account. Even then the odds are not great that you'll get good service.

I've developed a few nicknames for them since my experience - United Parcel Smashers, Unbelievably Poor Service, Uniformed Pot Smokers, yoU Poor Schmuck (as in, you poor schmuck, how stupid could you be to ship anything with us????), etc.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Well, I am both amazed and pleasantly surprised. I was on the phone with Adorama at 6:30 Pacific time this morning. I explained the situation, and was told to pack the camera up and return it to them for full refund and/or exchange, my option. To say that I am relieved is understatement. I am of course very disappointed, as I was looking forward to shooting some film this weekend, and now I am back to trying to find a camera. Damn.

Good for them! I'm a little ambivalent in general about Adorama, but when I've gone there in person on occasion, I've come to realize that there are a few really decent and helpful staff there, once you figure out who is who.

[CG]

Hmmm,

What an awful way to find one's beloved new camera. Three, no, six - cheers for Adorama for stepping up to the plate one this one. It gives comfort to hear they did it very right!

My own experience with UPS has so far been very good, and I am happier when they are the shipper of choice for things I get. Perhaps it makes a difference who/where the local UPS hub is and who the driver is. Our regular driver is great.

Best,

C

[davidb]

I would not call for any kind of celebration until VI (what is your name?) has a refund or is entirely pleased with the outcome.

Adorama has taken the first step in correcting this but there is still much to be done.

[Uusilehto]

All mail services are abysmal all round the world. Pay their fucking wages and they still do this stuff!

Except that this was UPS. Why would Adorama even use it? From what I've heard, they have the tendency of just leaving boxes out in the cold in front of the door. What would prevent someone from simply walking away with it (or, rummaging through the contents and re-taping the box)?

But I wouldn't say all postal services are abysmal. the Finnish postal service actually works and delivers everything on time. Usually ahead of schedule. I've never had a single problem/delay with them. And I send/receive A LOT of packages through the Finnish mail service.

[Marko]

Except that this was UPS. Why would Adorama even use it? From what I've heard, they have the tendency of just leaving boxes out in the cold in front of the door. What would prevent someone from simply walking away with it (or, rummaging through the contents and re-taping the box)?

Not just leaving the boxes - we have patios with a 6-foot walls where I live and they simply throw the packages over the wall and run away. Can't be bothered to ring the bell or even just open the gate and put the package on the ground. There is a rumor around that they throw the packages labeled "Fragile" especially high...

And when you request "Signature Required", they never show up and simply file the "address incomplete", forcing you to drive to the delivery center and pick the package up yourself. If they can find it, that is. Some times - make that often - they won't be able to find the package and tell you to come back tomorrow.


But I wouldn't say all postal services are abysmal. the Finnish postal service actually works and delivers everything on time. Usually ahead of schedule. I've never had a single problem/delay with them. And I send/receive A LOT of packages through the Finnish mail service.

No kidding - US Postal Service is a paragon of service and punctuality compared to UPS, which is saying a lot in itself. ;) What's more, tampering with US Mail is a federal felony and the authorities are required to investigate and prosecute upon complaint.

[seawolf66]

Reason's not to use UPS over USPS

UPS runs their drivers on a stop watch for every run , they have to make the schedual
no if ands or buts and UPS does maintain a bunch of folks that are true stop watch users to keep those drivers running: and thus reason for louse service from drivers:

USPS to my knowledge does not use stop watch's on their carriers or drivers on rural routes: thus reason for the difference:

Please folks I have seen those stop watch folks on trucks many of time :

Lauren

[davidb]

yeah...no one is pushing a federal employee anywhere too fast

[village idiot]

I would not call for any kind of celebration until VI (what is your name?) has a refund or is entirely pleased with the outcome.

Adorama has taken the first step in correcting this but there is still much to be done.

Yup.

I was rather stressed last night, wondering if I was going to get into a finger-pointing battle between Adorama and UPS with me left in the middle holding the bag, or camera, as it were. My conversation with Adorama this am has allayed those fears to some extent, but until I either have a nicely working Tech V in my hands, or all my moolah back in my account, I am not going to be popping any corks. To be honest, if they could fix the thing, and fix it well, that would optimum, as I really don't want to have to start another search. I will if I have to, (and frankly already have) but I thought that part was over.

I think I'll buy some tequila and limes on the way home tonight.:)

(my name is under my uh, name!)

[Nick_3536]

Except that this was UPS. Why would Adorama even use it?

UPS likely gave them the best offer. :cool:

I'm guessing this was UPS ground?

[village idiot]

I'm guessing this was UPS ground?


Ohhhh, yeah. I've already beat myself up for not spending the extra $40 to get it here in two days....

[Nick_3536]

From what I understand UPS ground is out sourced to the lowest bidder.

[Rider]

For what it's worth, I've never had a problem with UPS Ground, whether receiving or sending.

[village idiot]

Rider, FWIW, this is the first problem I have had with them as well. But why did they have to screw THIS one up?

[Greg Lockrey]

From what I understand UPS ground is out sourced to the lowest bidder.

So is the space shuttle. :eek:

[sparq]

Well, I am both amazed and pleasantly surprised. I was on the phone with Adorama at 6:30 Pacific time this morning. I explained the situation, and was told to pack the camera up and return it to them for full refund and/or exchange, my option. To say that I am relieved is understatement. I am of course very disappointed, as I was looking forward to shooting some film this weekend, and now I am back to trying to find a camera. Damn.

I too have to give credit to Adorama for settling their debts quickly and without too much pain. However, like in your case, I wasted time with them. I bought a used Technika IV in "great shape, bellows light tight, mechanically perfect". The first box they sent me contained a Technika III. I sent it back the next day, but it took them 10 business days after they had received it before they cleared shipping of the correct item ("they have thousands of items arriving every day - it takes time to put them all into the system"). When my Tech IV finally arrived; the bellows was torn open, the front standard wouldn't lock in position, and one of the lenses looked like someone dropped it from 7 feet on concrete floor. It went back; and again, it took them 10 business days before they processed the return and refunded me. I lost exactly $0; but I had to postpone my first LF steps by several weeks because of this adventure.

PS: I am sure that in my case, UPS did nothing wrong. Both the camera and the lenses were carefully packaged and the box showed no signs of violence. The condition of the camera was simply hugely overrated; and someone must have dropped the lens during packaging before it made it into the box.

[village idiot]

Well, I (finally) received a credit memo from Adorama, refunding my purchase in total, including shipping. The funds have not yet cleared my cc.

The reason given on the memo for the credit is, "the used item(s) is defective." OK, that's one way to put it...

I sincerely doubt I will ever use Adorama again, particularly after my conversation with someone in their used dept. today, who told me that the customer service person who authorized the return screwed up, and I should have been told to file a claim with UPS. I can not imagine the grief I would have had to go through had that been my only course of action. I'm just glad this chapter is (almost) closed.


In the interim, I have purchased a Cambo SC, taken some photos, had them developed, and am now searching for a scanner, which has created its' own little drama. And I thought LF was going to be relaxing... ;)

[Marko]

I sincerely doubt I will ever use Adorama again, particularly after my conversation with someone in their used dept. today, who told me that the customer service person who authorized the return screwed up, and I should have been told to file a claim with UPS. I can not imagine the grief I would have had to go through had that been my only course of action. I'm just glad this chapter is (almost) closed.

In the interim, I have purchased a Cambo SC, taken some photos, had them developed, and am now searching for a scanner, which has created its' own little drama. And I thought LF was going to be relaxing... ;)

Epson currently offers refurbished 4990 for $280 on their website. If you think dealing with Adorama and even UPS is tedious, you really should try buying something through Epson's web site!

They seem to have set up their web site in such a manner as to deliberately prevent people from buying anything from them, at least when it comes to clearance department.

What really makes the experience unique is that they would let you run through the entire course, submit all your personal and cc info and complete the transaction. Then they would let you wait. And wait. And wait. And when you finally give up waiting and log back in to your account (which you had to create in the process), you find out that the order was canceled. No legible explanation, so you have to call and trying to reason with the zombie answering the phone only gets you running in circles. You're told that "your check card is not valid" (although you used a credit card, not a bank card) or that "they could not verify your billing info" but when you tell them how to verify it with your bank, they say "they are not allowed to do that", etc.

Adorama at least let's you buy stuff and they at least talk to you in a manner you can understand. I know it's not the same as liking it, but believe me, it is a step up. A BIG step up.

So, yes, LF is relaxing. You simply have to relax jumping through all the hoops or else... ;)

[evan clarke]

My assistant was a loading supervisor at UPS and told me that a fragile sticker was just a target, wouldn't have helped.. No consolation, but I would blame the packing...EC

[evan clarke]

My assistant was a loading supervisor at UPS and told me that a fragile sticker wouldn't have helped. UPS moves several million air packages in four hours at one location moving way too fast to read the fragile sticker, packaging must stand up to this. No consolation, but I would blame the packing...EC

[turtle]

I would never use UPS, EVER. My sister's friend was caught out by a sophisticated UPS/Ebay scamming group that used fradulent escrow accounts. The goods vanished in transit after the buyer insisted they go UPS. They were sent to Paris, but vanished en route. The despatch docs were were re-written several days after the originals for reasons unknown (at manchester airport) and whether the goods ever got to Paris nobody knows (they were on record but no trace was found), but what is clear is that THOSE UPS MOTHER F****** stole the goods from the inside and were part of a seriously sophisticted ebay scam that went along these lines. most esperienced people would never fall for it, but this girl was new to ebay....

Overbid on item to spoil the auction
Mysterious 'upset' keen buyer who 'lost out' contacts seller and makes offer outside ebay.
Escrow transation using fradulent escrow website (served by a link) so no REAL money ever deposited.
Items mailed via UPS....docs altered and vanish into thin air. Buyer insisted the goods be marked for collection at the paris depot rather than mailed to a home address. The address he provided as his business was in fact and alternate address for the paris depot!
UPS never did pay out because the item was a watch and according to their terms classified as jewelry and not an item they would carry. They never admitted that this was an inside job (which it obviously was) even after one customer service girls stated that 'This happens all the time". They maintained throughtout that it was an unavoidable loss which was very rare and that they would thoroughly investigate (but never did as when called about it to ask for updates they refused to talk and then refused even to patch the calls thru....

They were again rude, at times aggressive and entirely unhelpful. SHARKS.

[Rider]

Bought my Epson 4990 refurb in 5 minutes, last Tuesday night, and it arrived on Friday (free shipping). It works great and, despite Epson's warning that refurb products might not come with software, all of the software was included (some version of Photoshop that I immediately gave to a relative, and Silverfast SE, which I'm learning).


Epson currently offers refurbished 4990 for $280 on their website. If you think dealing with Adorama and even UPS is tedious, you really should try buying something through Epson's web site!

They seem to have set up their web site in such a manner as to deliberately prevent people from buying anything from them, at least when it comes to clearance department.

What really makes the experience unique is that they would let you run through the entire course, submit all your personal and cc info and complete the transaction. Then they would let you wait. And wait. And wait. And when you finally give up waiting and log back in to your account (which you had to create in the process), you find out that the order was canceled. No legible explanation, so you have to call and trying to reason with the zombie answering the phone only gets you running in circles. You're told that "your check card is not valid" (although you used a credit card, not a bank card) or that "they could not verify your billing info" but when you tell them how to verify it with your bank, they say "they are not allowed to do that", etc.

Adorama at least let's you buy stuff and they at least talk to you in a manner you can understand. I know it's not the same as liking it, but believe me, it is a step up. A BIG step up.

So, yes, LF is relaxing. You simply have to relax jumping through all the hoops or else... ;)

[Rider]

Thanks for the warning, but why would this prevent you from sending a UPS package to a legitimate eBayer in Milwakee or Kansas or New York???


I would never use UPS, EVER. My sister's friend was caught out by a sophisticated UPS/Ebay scamming group that used fradulent escrow accounts. The goods vanished in transit after the buyer insisted they go UPS. They were sent to Paris, but vanished en route. The despatch docs were were re-written several days after the originals for reasons unknown (at manchester airport) and whether the goods ever got to Paris nobody knows (they were on record but no trace was found), but what is clear is that THOSE UPS MOTHER F****** stole the goods from the inside and were part of a seriously sophisticted ebay scam that went along these lines. most esperienced people would never fall for it, but this girl was new to ebay....

Overbid on item to spoil the auction
Mysterious 'upset' keen buyer who 'lost out' contacts seller and makes offer outside ebay.
Escrow transation using fradulent escrow website (served by a link) so no REAL money ever deposited.
Items mailed via UPS....docs altered and vanish into thin air. Buyer insisted the goods be marked for collection at the paris depot rather than mailed to a home address. The address he provided as his business was in fact and alternate address for the paris depot!
UPS never did pay out because the item was a watch and according to their terms classified as jewelry and not an item they would carry. They never admitted that this was an inside job (which it obviously was) even after one customer service girls stated that 'This happens all the time". They maintained throughtout that it was an unavoidable loss which was very rare and that they would thoroughly investigate (but never did as when called about it to ask for updates they refused to talk and then refused even to patch the calls thru....

They were again rude, at times aggressive and entirely unhelpful. SHARKS.

[turtle]

Thanks for the warning, but why would this prevent you from sending a UPS package to a legitimate eBayer in Milwakee or Kansas or New York???

Are you serious :eek:

Because the scam involved a UPS employee.....and the package was stolen from within the UPS system....after the paperwork was doctored.....the horrific customer service....the lies from their 'security manager'....the admission that they have internal thefts 'all the time'....yet basically told us to F off. Need any more good reasons? I dont give my custom to companies like that!

[Marko]

Bought my Epson 4990 refurb in 5 minutes, last Tuesday night, and it arrived on Friday (free shipping). It works great and, despite Epson's warning that refurb products might not come with software, all of the software was included (some version of Photoshop that I immediately gave to a relative, and Silverfast SE, which I'm learning).

That's great for you. I tried very hard to buy this same refurbished model back in March, made three very serious attempts, spent a couple of hours on the phone with them and finally gave up. It felt much worse than dealing with a DMV or something along those lines... Well, the difference is I have to deal with DMV occasionally, but I can buy my scanner elsewhere.

The difference in price was not worth all the aggravation and risk - with such an attitude, one has to wonder about the security of all the information they collect in the process.

[Donald Qualls]

No consolation, but I would blame the packing...EC

By all means, do; UPS invariably does, even if the box has tire marks on it.

[sparq]

They seem to have set up their web site in such a manner as to deliberately prevent people from buying anything from them, at least when it comes to clearance department.

Hmm, I bought refurb-ed 3170 and V700 from Epson's web site and did not have any problems at all. The shipping to Boston was blazing fast, too.

[Turner Reich]

Dear Idiot, it sounds like terrorism, I would report it to Homeland Security, no kidding, make a big deal about it. Someone conspired to hijack your package and slash it with a box cutter and shoot it down in ashes.

If you don't make a big deal, who ever did it will continue to do it and get their rocks off by screwing with other peoples goods. The person who did it is a sick antisocial individual who needs to be found out, and the sooner the better.

[Don O'Neil]

I'm at a loss for words......This piece of precision engineering should have been packed so well that being dropped or thrown would have had no effect whatsoever. For Adorama to have packaged your camera in that manner is far beyond unacceptable. Sickening, discusting, unforgiveable comes to mind. Sounds like Adorama just put it in a box with a handfull of peanuts.
Most of the parts for the V are no longer available. I've been searching for one small but indispensible part for my Super Tech V for years to no avail.

Good luck,

Don

I just hope the insurance is enough to cover a replacement.

[Rob_5419]

I would never use UPS, EVER. My sister's friend was caught out by a sophisticated UPS/Ebay scamming group that used fradulent escrow accounts. The goods vanished in transit after the buyer insisted they go UPS. They were sent to Paris, but vanished en route. The despatch docs were were re-written several days after the originals for reasons unknown (at manchester airport) and whether the goods ever got to Paris nobody knows (they were on record but no trace was found), but what is clear is that THOSE UPS MOTHER F****** stole the goods from the inside and were part of a seriously sophisticted ebay scam that went along these lines. most esperienced people would never fall for it, but this girl was new to ebay....



USPS are worse than UPS in the number of deliveries I've had to England - no calling card; no info as to where the parcel goes. Tracking information goes as far as: "Delivered - to Great Britain". No ability of the recipient to lodge a query via the website.

Really sorry to hear what they did to your Technika V. It's so reckless - disregard for the effort the manufacturer went to produce such a precision instrument, to say nothing about the their attitude towards the buyer....