Age of a Camera

[marisa]

Hello I have an old all wood 4x5 If I were to post a photo do you think any of you would be able to give me an idea of the age of it. Or is it kinda a lost cause.

[davidb]

sure post it

[marisa]

here are the photos

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3910&stc=1&d=1180684360

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3911&stc=1&d=1180684360

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3912&stc=1&d=1180684360

[BradS]

I'd put money on the table that either Ole or Jim Galli could id you old wooden camera. Probably a bunch of other folks too...Show us what you got!

[marisa]

http://mountainmagicgear.com/photos/DSC03388.JPG

http://mountainmagicgear.com/photos/DSC03390.JPG

http://mountainmagicgear.com/photos/DSC03391.JPG

[Vaughn]

I think I can safely say that it is old, alright.

Love the knobs that tighten the front standard (on top of the standards)! I have never seen that system before! Or are they for rise/fall?

Vaughn

[Jim Noel]

It loks to me like a full plate dry plate camera. Ity could be wet plate but there are no tell tale streaks of silver nitrate on the back. The knobs on top of the front look like a very effective way to control rise/fall.
Is there any identifying writing on the lens? That might help.

Sorry I can't put a name on it.

[marisa]

It loks to me like a full plate dry plate camera. Ity could be wet plate but there are no tell tale streaks of silver nitrate on the back. The knobs on top of the front look like a very effective way to control rise/fall.
Is there any identifying writing on the lens? That might help.

Sorry I can't put a name on it.

The knobs on the top lock and unlock the front. when you loosen then you can move the front freely when they are tight you have to use the lower knob. I am not sure what you mean by dry/wet plate camera. But does it help if I tell you that I have all wood film backs that match the camera? As for the lens there are only F-stop marks.

[Uusilehto]

Wet plates are photographic glass plates that consist of a layer of silver nitrate enriched collodion jello on a glass plate.
The positive side of these is that exposures can be as short as two to five seconds. The negative side is that they have to have to be coated, shot and developed before they dry (5-15 minutes). Also, since they are wet, there is a risk of excess silver nitrate dripping from the plate, smearing the camera.

Wet plates were used mainly between the 1850s and 1890s before the advent of fast dry emulsions. Dry plates did exist as early as the 1940s but required extremely long exposures (10-20 minutes in sunlight).

Even though we have our extremely sensitive (compared to wet-plates) emulsions on gelatin base, a large group of alternative photographers exist. Especially collodion wet-plates have gained notable popularity among these alternative photographers.

Also, another hint as to when it was built is the aperture scale on the lens. An American way of indicating aperture values was popular in the late 1890s (although I'm not sure when the system died).
It is based on the powers of two (4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128) instead of the ratio between the radiuses of two circles where the other has twice the surface area (around 1.41421, which translates to apx. 1, 1.4, 2, 2.8, 4, 5.6, etc.. ).

A typical Rapid-Rectilinear (an extremely popular lens design of the time) will have an aperture of f/8 (4 on the American scale)

[marisa]

here is how the f stops are listed 6.3,8,11,16,23,32. The only thing is I am not sure that this is the original lens.

[Richard Kelham]

The style is English, or at least European, but could also be Japanese as "English style" cameras were popular there (especially the half- and whole-plate sizes). It could have been made at any time from the 1880s to the 1930s, though I would hazard a guess at the 1890s.

Do the bookform dark slides have the metal septums for use with sheet film?

The aperture scale markings (f23??) indicate that it could well be original but probably not much before 1900 and definitely not American.

I emphasise that the above comments are only semi-informed guesswork and I await the verdict of the real experts with interest! Ole, where are you?



Richard

[Ernest Purdum]

Your camera seems to be one of the many designs based on George Hare's 1882 Patent Camera. (I hope I remembered that date right.) He was the one that introduced the basic layout that we are familiar with used by Technika's, Speed Graphics and so any et ceteras. It is probably English, and I would guess 1890's, but unfortunately that is probably all that you can be told about it, since Hare had many followers.

I think the back is on upside down. The usual way of opening the back is to place the groundglass frame on top of the bellows.

[big_ben_blue]

Based on the construction of the back, it's most likely a british model. I would date it somewhere within 1890 and 1920. Are you sure it's a 4x5? It looks bigger than that.

[Ole Tjugen]

Based on the construction of the back, it's most likely a british model. I would date it somewhere within 1890 and 1920. Are you sure it's a 4x5? It looks bigger than that.

I also think the proportions look wrong for 4x5" - more like 10x15cm (4x6")?

Could you measure the ground glass, just so we know what size it is?

There were different sizes in use in different countries and at different times, so a measurement of the ground glass would be a real help.

The lens has an aluminium glass mount in a brass barrel - which unfortunately was rather common around 1900. And the original black paint has usually fallen off the aluminium, taking the writing with it. But the writing was usually engraved as well, and should be legible enough.

From the thickness of the aluminium bit of the lens I think it must be some kind of anastigmat, not a RR/Aplanat. My first guess is Steinheil - or Beck, if British.

[Ole Tjugen]

I'd put money on the table that either Ole or Jim Galli could id you old wooden camera. Probably a bunch of other folks too...Show us what you got!

Lenses yes, cameras no. :)

At least if the lenses are old and German, cameras I can only identify if they have maker's labels on them. :p

[marisa]

I also think the proportions look wrong for 4x5" - more like 10x15cm (4x6")?


Sorry guys you are right it is not 4x5 the opening on the film backs are 4.5" by 6.5" ??

[marisa]

I think the back is on upside down. The usual way of opening the back is to place the groundglass frame on top of the bellows.


Thax it I have fliped it. makes more sense that way!!:)

[Richard Kelham]

Sorry guys you are right it is not 4x5 the opening on the film backs are 4.5" by 6.5" ??



Ah yes, the good old Half Plate....

[Rafael Garcia]

Marisa:

It does look like a turn-of-the-century English style half plate using book form holders. I would guess it to be English (not Japanese) based on the color and front standard design, although it could also be Indian, as English style cameras were made there too.

What are you doing with it? I use my old English style half plate in the field. It is easy to make backs for the camera that will cover both the 4x5 and the 5x7 formats, and their size, just an inch larger than a modern 4x5 wood field, makes them very portable. Of course, it will look great in a cabinet if you want to display it too!

[Ash]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSC00896a.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSC00902a.jpg

There's similarities to my camera. Mine's a Perken Son & Rayment. turn of the century-ish.

[Ernest Purdum]

Ash, I would guess the age of your camera as, like marisa's, probably before 1900. One reason is that the bellows corners are square, not beveled, as became usual later. Another is that Rayment seems to have gone his own way about 1900, leaving the company name as Perken and Son.

Your camera is a little closer to a Hare in one respect, the rear braces sliding down a brass track. Hare, though, left the struts on the outside, while on yours they are tucked neatly inside the housing.

[marisa]

Ash do you still use yours?

[Ash]

Marisa, that's my mother's 8x10.

As you can see it hasn't got a lens on it (the Perken Optimus lens went walkies over the past few years). Those photo's were last summer.

I tested the camera with a lens of my own about twice, then sorted myself my own 4x5 and half-plate camera. I don't shoot 8x10, too expensive for a tight-ass youngster like myself :)

So, no, that camera isn't in frequent use. but my other early cameras are in constant use.

[marisa]

Thank you all for all your Help:) :)