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View Full Version : Bad batches of Ilford FP4?



tim atherton
25-May-2007, 12:17
Whoa,

I've just had a bad experience with a box of 8x10 FP4 (expires 2008)

Just processed it and this stuff has scratches all over it. lots of 2"-3" swirly ones - sometimes two or three parallel sets of scratches. some roughly foll wing the longest dimension of the film some not.

It's quite bizarre.

Last few days I processed a whole batch of 50 sheets of Efke 100 - which as I'm sure we all know is more than a little prone to scratches. But hardly a one. I did one batch after the FP4 today and it's also just fine.

Both the FP4 and Efke were all exposed over the same couple of days, using the same batch of holders. All processed in the same set-up - Jobo 8x10 tube on a jobo processor. Washed the same way.

I can only figure it has to be the film.

Anyone else come across this?

Oren Grad
25-May-2007, 12:30
Tim - it would help in sorting this out if you could post the lot number from the box.

tim atherton
25-May-2007, 12:31
08afm1c01/07-1 may 2008

KenM
25-May-2007, 13:09
Why not pull a sheet from the box and check it out? If it's bad, Ilford will replace it; if it's not, then you've got a problem (which I doubt from what you've said above).

tim atherton
25-May-2007, 13:14
Ken - unfortunately all the sheets are shot and processed, otherwise I would have given that a try

And this is now beyond weird... I just looked more closely at a couple of sheets and they have two or three fingerprints in the image areas that have survived the processing. Now, first, these are in areas where I wouldn't normally touch the film - loading or unloading.

And secondly, I know how to read a fingerprint (I processed enough of them at one time) - and these ain't mine! As I'm the only person who has touched this film, from opening the sealed box to loading, unloading and processing it, there's only one place it can have come from.

I am (was...) a big Ilford supporter, but this is definitely a wake up call.

KenM
25-May-2007, 13:36
Ken - unfortunately all the sheets are shot and processed, otherwise I would have given that a try

Ah, how unfortunate.


And this is now beyond weird... I just looked more closely at a couple of sheets and they have two or three fingerprints in the image areas that have survived the processing. Now, first, these are in areas where I wouldn't normally touch the film - loading or unloading.

And secondly, I know how to read a fingerprint (I processed enough of them at one time) - and these ain't mine! As I'm the only person who has touched this film, from opening the sealed box to loading, unloading and processing it, there's only one place it can have come from.

I am (was...) a big Ilford supporter, but this is definitely a wake up call.

That is weird! I wonder if another customer opened the box, handled the film and returned it? Doubtful, since in my experience, film is generally not returnable. Regardless, I would contact either the store, or Ilford.

Simon would probably be very interested in helping out as well. After all, Ilford does pride themselves on good customer service. While you can't recover your time, you may be able to get a new box of film, and that's at least something.

Pete Watkins
25-May-2007, 13:49
Ilford have acted like absolute tossers in the U.K. and have total disregard for the L.F. community here (basically, there ain't enough of us to matter). I don't doubt that it's the fault of Ilford, buy I wish you luck getting anywhere with them. They are now accountants and they wouldn't even know how to set up a field camera.
The future lies in the East!
Pete.

John Kasaian
25-May-2007, 14:19
Tim,

Why don't you post this on the Ilford forum? Perhaps someone who has used that same production run will have something to say and I'm sure Mother Ilford monitors whats going on on thier own site.

FWIW the last box of Ilford FP-4+ that I shot gave me no problems,but I've got a box of HP-5+ thawing out today (gulp!)

tim atherton
25-May-2007, 14:44
FWIW the last box of Ilford FP-4+ that I shot gave me no problems,but I've got a box of HP-5+ thawing out today (gulp!)

well I'd never had a problem with FP4 before either...

and I just checked some HP5 I shot a week ago - same holders same processing - no problem...

Andrew O'Neill
25-May-2007, 18:32
I've never had a problem with FP4 or HP5. I hope the stuff I just ordered is okay. I'll do a quick test when it arrives.

MIke Sherck
25-May-2007, 18:45
More years ago, while working for a company which shall remain nameless, I was required to participate in a "team-building" exercise. Part of the exercise (all that was exercised was our butts, but nevertheless...) was listening to a then-famous consultant who started his spiel, "If you can go ten seconds without making a mistake, you can go thirty seconds without making a mistake. If you can go 30 seconds without making a mistake then you can go 1 minute without making a mistake..." This crap went on until, predictably, we gathered the impression that our mistake making days were over and perfection was now required.

Being young, brash, impatient, and extraordinarily mobile, when the consultant finished up by asking whether anyone had any questions, I raised my hand and stood up. The microphone was passed and I asked my question. "Were you born an idiot or was this something you had to study for?"

It was not taken well, by either the consultant or my management. I found out later that my manager (an absolutely wonderful guy, I should add, God rest his soul,) moved heaven and earth to keep me (and one other) out of the meeting, fearing something very much like this, to no avail.

No, I wasn't fired. I was "talked to" by a variety of vice presidents before ending up finally in front of mine (the one directly over me,) who had experience with me before and was working very hard to keep from laughing. Anyway, you get the picture.

The point, which you have undoubtedly gotten by now, is that everyone who makes any sort of product will eventually produce a bad one. The measure of a manufacturer isn't whether or not they are perfect, it's how they fix the problems which inevitably arise. Don't castigate Ilford unless or until they blame your cat for the scratches.

Mike

walter23
25-May-2007, 22:57
I am (was...) a big Ilford supporter, but this is definitely a wake up call.

A bit drastic, though I can understand your frustration.

Colin Graham
26-May-2007, 07:40
I can truly sympathize. I've had a road trip or two ruined by emulsion defects/ bad lots. Nothing more frustrating. Not Ilford products, though. I've had great luck with fp4+ so far and hope it holds out! But I'm starting to think no manufacturer is immune.

Jim Noel
26-May-2007, 09:10
Although not common, I have known stores to accept returned film especially if it is taped so that it is difficult to tell it has been opened.
Hopefully this is what happened to your film.I have never had a problem with any Ilford film other than an occasional pinhole.

Richard Kelham
26-May-2007, 13:48
Ilford have acted like absolute tossers in the U.K. and have total disregard for the L.F. community here (basically, there ain't enough of us to matter). I don't doubt that it's the fault of Ilford, buy I wish you luck getting anywhere with them. They are now accountants and they wouldn't even know how to set up a field camera.
The future lies in the East!
Pete.


For some reason unknown to the rest of us Pete Watkins habitually bad-mouths Ilford. Fact is I have never had any problem using their materials in all formats for some 40 years. If they were so disinterested in the LF market, thinking it too small, why do they still bother to produce their films.

matthew blais
28-May-2007, 09:21
Here's an email for one of Ilford'd consumer customer reps. I received this after emailing them about a possible paper problem. They seem more than willing to help.

Sue.Evans@harmantechnology.com

Ilford Photo, Harman Technology
Attention Sue Evans
Ilford Way,
Mobberley,
knutsford,
Cheshire WA16 7JL

George Hart
28-May-2007, 10:35
Ilford have acted like absolute tossers in the U.K. and have total disregard for the L.F. community here (basically, there ain't enough of us to matter). I don't doubt that it's the fault of Ilford, buy I wish you luck getting anywhere with them. They are now accountants and they wouldn't even know how to set up a field camera.
The future lies in the East!
Pete.

Pete, you had better wake up and defend your post. What is your evidence?

Joseph O'Neil
28-May-2007, 10:52
Once, and once only in 25 years of using Ilford film, from 35mm (including bulk rolls) to 120 to 4x5, I have had bad Ilford film. It was a 100 sheet box of 4x5 FP4, and I bought it on sale as "outdated" film, at half price, from a local camera store. It was only 2 mounts outdated, but every sheet I shot had some flaw on it. Strangely however, a few years before that I had bought an outdated 35mm bulk roll of HP5, and never had an issue with it.

So...to this day I never buy outdated film anymore, and i blame myself for buying outdated film, not the film itself.

joe

Glenn Thoreson
28-May-2007, 12:10
Although not common, I have known stores to accept returned film especially if it is taped so that it is difficult to tell it has been opened.
Hopefully this is what happened to your film.I have never had a problem with any Ilford film other than an occasional pinhole.

This is a very good point. I have seen stores put returned mercahandise, even faulty returned merchandise, right back on the shelf to sell to the next poor soul. I have seen packaging that was ripped open, taped with about two pounds of tape, returned only to be resold in that condition. I have also seen people go to great lengths to conceal the fact that the packaging had been opened. Some are very good at that, too. Who knows what may have happened with your film before you got it. If it was blatantly scratched, I rather suspect something other than Ilford to be the culprit. You May want to talk to discuss this with the supplier, also.

tim atherton
28-May-2007, 12:12
If it was blatantly scratched, I rather suspect something other than Ilford to be the culprit. You May want to talk to discuss this with the supplier, also.


hmm - J&C...

Pete Watkins
28-May-2007, 12:29
O.K. Try to buy Ilford 11 x 14 sheet film in the U.K. I asked an Ilford rep about the shortage of the larger sizes of sheet film in the U.K. at Focus a couple of years ago and was told "You and four others". Check old Silverprint catalogues for Ilford 11 x 14. I'll stand my ground, Ilford have no commitment towards the U.K. large format community and treat us with total contempt. George, the fact that your address is Chester indicates that you could well be an employee of the company, if so I admire your loyalty but the facts are the facts. I even offered to drive to the factory and collect some 11 x 14 earlier this year before they exported the stuff. Their rep couldn't even be bothered to reply or accept the challenge. If they think that I'm prepared to import Ilford sheet film that they are not prepared to sell on the home market they can get stuffed. If you do work for them you might be willing to explain this to their management after the bank holiday. With their attitudes it's not hard to see how they went bust, and to be honest I wouldn't buy shares in the company. As I said, "The future lies in the east". The company have failed the U.K. U.L.F. community. I am happy to drink European wine, and buy European clothing, so why not use European film?
Pete.

Glenn Thoreson
28-May-2007, 12:50
Hmmm .... I guess the supplier angle is out the window. :(

George Hart
28-May-2007, 13:30
O.K. Try to buy Ilford 11 x 14 sheet film in the U.K. George, the fact that your address is Chester indicates that you could well be an employee of the company, if so I admire your loyalty but the facts are the facts. I even offered to drive to the factory and collect some 11 x 14 earlier this year before they exported the stuff.
Pete.

Pete, I have no connection whatsoever with Ilford. I do happen to live not too far from Mobberley, and I am looking forward to visiting the factory on their open day very shortly, on 15 June. I accept what you say about the availability of 1 LF film format in the UK, but I cannot of course verify your claims. Most of us are very glad that this company is surviving to produce any B&W products!

Pete Watkins
28-May-2007, 14:49
George, when you visit the factory ask the mighty Simon why he didn't answer my e-mails or take up my offer to visit the factory at my own expense and buy some 11 x 14 for CASH at a time that suited him. If he can't verify my claims I could probably trace the e-mails in my files but as I've got film from another source I really don't care about Ilford.
Have a nice day there,
Pete.

Bobf
29-May-2007, 07:30
If any one in the UK really wants 11x14 HP5+ (or any other hard to find item) it is included in Ilford's Direct2Dealer (http://www.ilfordphoto.com/wheretobuy/buyilfordd2d.asp)catalogue. Call 0800 234 6484 and order it for next day delivery to a local participating dealer. Most of the Ilford/Harman product can be ordered this way making unusual items that few, if any, dealers stock easy to obtain.

Cheers, Bob.