Ultrafine ULF film?

[John Kasaian]

Has anyone bought Ultrafine sheet film from Photowarehouse lately, especially in ULF sizes?

[jnantz]

hi john

i spoke with them yesterday -
and i don't think they have any film
in ulf sizes ( at least the stuff they used to cut off the master rolls ) ..
from what i understand, they are still trying to find something to
buy in bulk and cut down, but they haven't found a film that compares to
what they were selling before ( ilford ) ...

:(
john

[John Kasaian]

Thanks john!

Photowarehouse provided great products in the past---good film cut to any size format and thier prices were very reasonable. With J and C out of business I'd feel a lot better if there was at least one other alternative supplier in the ULF market.

[jnantz]

Thanks john!

Photowarehouse provided great products in the past---good film cut to any size format and thier prices were very reasonable. With J and C out of business I'd feel a lot better if there was at least one other alternative supplier in the ULF market.

i couldn't agree with you more john!

i think the problem is that the companies that are supplying master rolls
are eastern european companies, and the quality of the film is not the same
as what they had been used to from ilford. too bad they can't be assured
that if "they buy the rolls to cut people will buy it" even though it isn't
ilford or kodak. a lot of people have been using an really like the eastern european
films ... i can only imagine how much a master roll ( or 2 ) might cost,
so it is a pretty big gamble for them if they buy them ... and a really big problem
if people decide after one or 2 purchases that they don't like it ...

john

[Michael Kadillak]

Thanks john!

Photowarehouse provided great products in the past---good film cut to any size format and thier prices were very reasonable. With J and C out of business I'd feel a lot better if there was at least one other alternative supplier in the ULF market.

Photowarehouse acquired out of date film from the previous owners of Ilford
at scrap prices and found a great niche to cut and packaged this film. Was a short term one shot deal that will never happen again because the new owners of Ilford are running their business more intelligently to mitigate waste (a very good thing) and they have absolutely zero interest in playing the ULF sheet film game at retail. They had a prior opportunity to do the TMY deal and passed.

There is Digitaltruth online that is one additional option for Efke that I would like to hear if anyone else has used them. Maybe the next time quality ULF film becomes available folks will seize the opportunity and make some purchases. There is a core group of folks that actually do reach for their wallets and then there are many others than complain and whine about the situation while talking a big game and then buy a box or two of film over a year over a year's time.

Cheers!

[scott_6029]

Why not use freestyle? They offer great customer service and fast delievery.

[Vaughn]

Photowarehouse acquired out of date film from the previous owners of Ilford
at scrap prices and found a great niche to cut and packaged this film.

Cheers!


Cheers yourself, mate.

Not quite the situation as per Simon of present-day Ilford -- Ilford sold their over-production (due to labour union requirements)...not outdated scrap...to be relabled by Photowarehouse, Freestyle, etc..

Vaughn

[John Kasaian]

Scott,

I buy a lot of stuff (Arista .edu Ultra) from Freestyle, but I like the idea of a redundant supply chain.

[Michael Kadillak]

Cheers yourself, mate.

Not quite the situation as per Simon of present-day Ilford -- Ilford sold their over-production (due to labour union requirements)...not outdated scrap...to be relabled by Photowarehouse, Freestyle, etc..

Vaughn

One can call it what they want but here are what we do know. After cutting and packaging, the Photowarehouse film was a fraction of what Ilford film sold for. I am sure that at the time Ilford was smart enough to not purposefully cut off their own nose desipte their face in an already saturated market or purposefully subsudize a competitor.

My money is on the belief that they did not want the liability issues of long dated film sold with their name on the package coming back to them for replacement and decided that a discounted recenue is better than no revenue at all. That is why they maintained that the film was not theirs over and over even though we all knew that it surey was.

The second truth is that these deals will never happen again.

[Vaughn]

My money is on the belief that they did not want the liability issues of long dated film sold with their name on the package coming back to them for replacement and decided that a discounted recenue is better than no revenue at all. That is why they maintained that the film was not theirs over and over even though we all knew that it surey was.


So what you are saying is that Freestyle delibertly falsified the expiry date they put on their packages. The last box of Arista 125 I have (Ilford) expires August 2007.

Granted, Photo Warehouse did not date their film (on the one box I got from them).

Instead of your guess or belief system, I will go with what the present Ilford Rep says -- that union laws of the time required that Ilford hire more workers than they needed, thus production was greater than they needed for their market share.

The excess film was sold at a little above cost to be repackaged (rather than pay workers to sit on their hands which would drive up production costs for the Ilford-branded goods). It does make sense, as you suggested to seperate the Ilford name from the re-packaged goods -- any returns would have to replaced with Ilford-boxed goods which have a higher mark-up.

Vaughn

[Michael Kadillak]

So what you are saying is that Freestyle delibertly falsified the expiry date they put on their packages. The last box of Arista 125 I have (Ilford) expires August 2007.

Granted, Photo Warehouse did not date their film (on the one box I got from them).

Instead of your guess or belief system, I will go with what the present Ilford Rep says -- that union laws of the time required that Ilford hire more workers than they needed, thus production was greater than they needed for their market share.

The excess film was sold at a little above cost to be repackaged (rather than pay workers to sit on their hands which would drive up production costs for the Ilford-branded goods). It does make sense, as you suggested to seperate the Ilford name from the re-packaged goods -- any returns would have to replaced with Ilford-boxed goods which have a higher mark-up.

Vaughn


I am not making any statement about Freestyle because I have no knowledge of their operations. My only comment was about Photowarehouse and for a while there was an expiration date on the ULF film that they sold, but later on it simply was left off of the packaging.

Being forced by a union to lose money is not a pleasant proposition in any form. Hope that they discaded this requirement or we are really in deep stuff.

CHeers!

[Gene McCluney]

Didn't one reseller purchase the bulk of the last batch of Ultrafine LF film?

[John Kasaian]

In Freestyle's defense I have to comment that Arista.edu Ultra provides an exceptional film at an exceptional price---it's not the same product of course, but the value is IHO very comparable to past Aristas, PW 's Ultrafine and J and C's Classic. These companies provided a service that enabled many students and hobbyists to shoot sheet film (quality sheet film IMHO) for the first time in thier lives on a regular basis, something that might have attributed to the growth of LF in recent years, along with the availability of used cheap pro gear attributed to digital fall-out. My concern is that we've gone from three major suppliers down to one. Thats good for Freestyle of course, but it also means that for budget LF materials there is effectively only one place to go (at least in the U.S.)

Past experience demonstrates that, especially in LF, we can't rely 100% on the availability of any one product or supplier. Changing materials is part of life---I've got no problem with that. I don't mourn the loss of any paper (even AZO) chemicals or film so long as there is something else available. Having a healthy number of suppliers and products on the market then is a good thing, isn't it?

It looks as if the next "competition" for Arista will be Chinese if the price Chinese sheet film is going for is any indication (then it will become a matter of which formats & ISOs, and of course quality, are made available)

Is there an object lesson here?

[Donald Qualls]

Don't know if Ultrafine will go this way, but Foma makes excellent film, will cut it in their own factory to any size requested for a relatively modest minimum order, and apparently sells master rolls as well (AFAIK, the .EDU Ultra sold by Freestyle is cut and packaged after it leaves the Foma plant; the backing on the 120 is different from Foma brand, but identical to the Forte that was sold as "Classic Pan"). And IMO, I'd rather use Foma than Ilford, though I'll freely admit that may be a combination of price and familiarity.