DEKTOL WITH AZO

[Alan Barton]

I have tried using Azo recently with Dektol (1:2/68F or 1:4) on negs developed i n PMK (or HC110). The prints have a blue tone to them. has anybody else observed this? Doesn't occur with Amidol or Edwal Platinum. Thanks

[Sean Billy Bob Boy yates]

Alan - both Bill Johnson and I noticed this with our prints at the workshop. Bill also had an Amidol print which was more neutral to just slightly warm. He also thinks that the fixer plays a part in the image tone. I've got his e-mail address if you need it.

[David F. Stein]

Yes, Agfa Neutol WA will give a rich, neutral silver tone. TRY IT.

[William A. Johnson]

Alan- Sean Yates and I have both experienced the "blues" with Dektol and Azo, but evidently it is possible to alter the blue cast if you experiment with the Dektol. You may also recall at the workshop that Michael Smith said he occasionally uses Dektol with Azo to get just a bit more contrast, but somehow manages to avoid the blue color. Others seem to get a more neutral color with the Agfa developers, but I am so pleased with the Amidol I haven't tried anything else yet. Let us know your results if you have a chance to experiment.

[Chris Partti]

Although I've also experienced a blue-green tone in my limited work with Azo and Dektol, I've found that the tone is quite acceptable after selenium toning. I'll definitely try the Agfa developer though.

[Pete Caluori]

Greetings,

FWIW, I too have noticed a blue black tone in AZO, but as the previous poster mentioned, selenium toning cured it. At the time, I was using Polymax-T as the developer.

Regards,

[Alan Barton]

I asked kodak the same question-they have no idea. Tried again last night using 1:1 Dektol made up with distilled water-same result. Se toning did remove blue tone effectively (1:12 2 min) as per previous responses. Tone with Dektol, after Se toning, is warmer than with Edwal developers but still very nice.

Thanks for the suggestions,

Alan

[David N. VanMeter]

I get the blue tone and I like it. No point rockin' that boat. :-) Besides I could never get amidol to work for me. I am sure it was something I was doing wrong but I didn't really want to take the time to figure it out.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I tried Azo for the first time last night, and indeed, the tonal scale was great, but I got the blue-green tone in Dektol. I picked up some Neutol WA, as recommended above and will try that next, but out of curiosity, has anyone here tried Azo in Formulary BW-65 (phenidone-glycin developer), which claims to produce results similar to Amidol without the staining, cost, and short tray life?

[David A. Goldfarb]

So after some testing, I've settled on this combo for Azo (all at 68 degrees F.): Agfa Neutol WA, 1:11, 2 minutes; Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner 1:15, 3 minutes--just enough to make the blacks pop out and get a nice separation of intermediate tones.

[Sal Santamaura]

David, in the course of your testing between October 6 and 21, did you try the Formulary BW-65? If so, what kind of results did you get? Thanks in advance.

[David A. Goldfarb]

No I didn't, in the end. I was happy with Neutol WA and accounts of BW-65 over in the B&W Printing and Finishing list suggested that it wasn't too different from Dektol in practice, at least with other papers (though that still doesn't tell what it does with Azo), so I haven't felt the urgency to try it. If you do, please report back.

[Wayne]

You can get a free sample of BW-65 from PF, so what do you have to lose? I've been playing with glycin, Neutol WA and Azo tonight, will report back if I see anything interesting. I have a sample of BW-65 standing by, if needed, but I suspect it will only give the dreaded green.

[M.]

Dan, I expect that Michael's developer might be so long lasting because of the 80+ year old Amidol that he uses, rather than the formula he uses to mix it.

[M.]

Sorry, Dan. Open mouth and insert foot -- the story of my life.

[Wayne]

well there must be some reason. the only significant difference I see between MAS's formula and many others is the reduced quantity of bromide.

Does Michael have an explanation for why his formula lasts longer?

[Wayne]

But there's citric acid in other amidol formulas too-Brett and Cole Weston's, Wynn Bullock's. I dont doubt that Michaels formula lasts, just curious why that hasnt been reported by anyone else who used similar formulas

[Wayne]

I'll answer my own question. Apparently the use of acid to prolong amidol working solution life has been known for a long time. The 1975 edition of _Photographic Facts and Formulas_ mentions that acid will prolong the life of amidol solutions for a couple days. I have no idea how many of the earlier editions also mention this fact, but since Wynn Bullock died in 1973 it was certainly known long before that. Apparently its not very widely known though.