I'm new here looking for a 4x5 folding field camera

[lisa osta]

I'm new here looking for a 4x5 folding field camera...

I've read through quite a bit of the forum here.
I have been doing photography for 35 years. I majored in phtography in college, worked as a photo assistant but before I got into photography on my own I went in a different career path but have always been doing photography as my passion ever since and a little bit of photo business as well.

I haven't shot film much in 5 years and haven't shot large format since the mid eighties. I've shot up to 8x10 but lately I've been shooting digital with 5D and M8.

I want to get back to shooting some LF film and have been looking at wooden field cameras. I imagine myself doing some portraits and garden photos with large format. I envision myself sticking to quickload and trying to make this easy since it will require a whole new discipline from shooting digital.

I originally thought I'd get an old deardoff but after doing some research the Ebony rw45 looks better and better. I am also figuring I'd get two lenses at least to start. I like to shoot either wide or close-up.

My questions to you all is, is the ebony rw45 a good choice. If not what else? Which lenses? I was thinking of a 90 for the wide (I like 28-35 in 35mm) but don't know what to go for on the long side. How can I get close without having really long bellows?

Thank you for your time.

[Walter Calahan]

Get the Ebony.

The aspect ratio of 35mm and 4x5 aren't the same, so a lens length on 35mm doesn't translate up to 4x5 smoothly. A 90 is a good start for wide.

Think of getting a Nikkor micro as your second or third lens. Great for the garden. For portraits, I'd suggest getting a 210mm. Those three lenses should get you rolling.

Don't skimp on a cheap tripod. 4x5 needs a solid platform underneath.

[Mike Davis]

There's no doubt that the ebony is a good choice. I chose a 135 to be on the wide side of normal. My other lenses for 4x5 are a 90mm fuji, a 210 Schneider, and a 240-w Germinar (which I also use as my wide 8x10 lens).

Camera-wise I chose a different path. I started with a 5x7 B&J that had a 4x5 back. Stripped of its gray paint, it had beautiful cherry wood. I supplemented it with a Toyo G for studio work. When I added a Shen Hoa 4x5, I traded the B&J to another photographer for a print that I liked.

I've been shooting with the Shen Hoa for more than 2 years now and I'm happy with it. It has good fit and finish but it is not in the class of the Ebony (of course, it is not in the price range of the Ebony either).

Mike

[Ron Marshall]

Have a look at the Canham, there is a review of it on this site.

90 would be a good wide and 210 good for portraits.

[andy bessette]

I'm new here looking for a 4x5 folding field camera...

I want to get back to shooting some LF film and have been looking at wooden field cameras. I imagine myself doing some portraits and garden photos with large format. I envision myself sticking to quickload and trying to make this easy since it will require a whole new discipline from shooting digital.

I originally thought I'd get an old deardoff but after doing some research the Ebony rw45 looks better and better. I am also figuring I'd get two lenses at least to start. I like to shoot either wide or close-up.

My questions to you all is, is the ebony rw45 a good choice. If not what else? Which lenses? I was thinking of a 90 for the wide (I like 28-35 in 35mm) but don't know what to go for on the long side. How can I get close without having really long bellows?


Yo Lisa,

welcome to LF forum. If you have the budget, the Ebony is quite a fine piece, but you really needn't spend that much to start. My mint Yachihara was $500.

Regarding trying to make it easy with quick-loads, you will probably want more choices. And digital is easy--LF is more about what YOU can do.

By "getting close" I presume you mean macro, for flowers and such. You won't need tremendous bellows draw with something like the 120 AM Nikkor. However if you mean as in telephoto, then a true "telephoto", rather than long focal length lens, may be required.

But before buying a camera you should decide on the minimum range of focal lengths you are willing to accept. What I mean to say is how short and how long a focal length will you require, as this relates to which camera you should choose, based upon bellows draw.

Though many very experienced LFers would debate this, I have determined that if one applies to a 35mm focal length a factor of 3.3 (or three and one third), this gives an approximation of a 4X5 lens. In other words, if you'd like your wide angle lens to be close to 35mm's 28mm lens, then 28 X 3.3 = 92.4. Therefore a 90mm lens will be a fine choice.

On the other end, if you particularly like tight headshots using an 85mm lens in 35mm format, 85 X 3.3 = 280.5, then you will want a much longer bellows draw than is possible with many cameras. So choose your lenses first! Even if you do not buy them immediately. While it is possible to do everything with one lens, or two, it would be wise to anticipate your future needs when deciding which lens(es) to begin with.

The bellows draw on most field cameras will easily handle the 210mm, but that relates to only a 63.6mm lens in the small format. Is this enough for you?

Is the Ebony rw45 a good choice? It is if it will handle the longest lens you will need.

best, andy

THERE'S MORE TO OPTICS THAN MEETS THE EYE

[Mick Fagan]

Lisa, the current issue of Magnachrom, which is a free online magazine, has a test of the Shen Hao 4x5 camera.

They show the camera with a 500mm lens (I think). They also show just how the camera fares when the bellows are fully extended and the rear is moved back to give maximum extension.

This may give you some food for thought.

Just recently I picked up a Shen Hao 4x5 and pretty much agree with the article.

Mick.

[steve simmons]

Getting Started in Large Format is an article in the Free Articles section of the View Camera web site

www.viewcamera.com

that will be helpful to you.

and here are some books

User's Guide to the View Camera by Jim Stone
Using the View Camera that I wrote
or
Large Format Nature Photography by Jack Dykinga

try your local library


The key to selecting a camera i to decide on wht lenses you want. Your bellows should be at least 25% longer then the longest lens and if you want to use anything shorter than a 90mm then get a camera that has the option of a wide angle bellows


steve simmons
publisher, View Camera magazine

[David Karp]

You might want to consider a camera with longer bellows. If you want a folder, I suggest you look into a Walker Titan SF. It has a much longer bellows draw than the Ebony, more movements, and costs about the same. It is not wood, but plastic. It is quite durable, not brittle at all. I have one and like it very much.

[lisa osta]

Thanks for all the info guys. Looks like I'll want a 90, 120 AM, and 210. The 90 and 210 should be fairlly easy to find. Any ideas where to find a Nikkor 120 AM?

I know myself and I'd rather get the ebony to start otherwise I'd buy something else and still want the ebony and eventually buy it costing me even more money.

Anything else I should consider?

[Ole Tjugen]

Not so long ago there was a "special offer" on Nikkor 120 AM, so a lot of us have them. I've seen a few resold since then, and I won't be surprised if there are more coming. :)

If you can't find one, there is a "cheap substitute": An old Symmar convertible 135mm f:5.6. Not the 150mm, not a Symmar-S, but the "plain Symmar" 135mm!
These old lenses were designed for best performance around 1:3 - most newer lenses were designed for 1:10 or 1:20. The 135mm has the added benefit that it's in a #0 shutter, which has the same threads on both cells. So when you move into larger-than-life ratio, swap the lens cells and it's optimised for 3:1! A "true macro lens" will outperform it at 1:1. But at anything from 1:2 to 1:infinity, or from 2:1 to as long as your bellows permit, the old lowly Symmar will do just great.
Unlike the 120 Nikkor AM the 135 Symmar will also cover 4x5" at infinity with a little bit of movements, giving a "short normal" lens.

[BradS]

The Ebony is a wonderful, all around field camera. It's light weight and very rigid. It will focus a 90mm at infinity without need of a recessed lensboard and will easily handle a 210mm a portrait distances. Make sure to get the lens shade clippy thing. I tallows you to use the ground glass protector as a lens share - and is so, so handy in the field.

My only complaint about the RW45 is that the RW45 focuses only with the front - you cannot focus with the back. This is really of no concern at all in portraits and landscapes but maybe a very important factor to you if you are going to be doing much macro work.

One kinda fun bit of trivia about the RW45 is that a 210mm Geronar (and probably, many other 210mm lenses) is almost perfectly focussed at infinity when all the camera movements are in their nominal or, zero'd position.

[Brian K]

Welcome.

The Canham DLC45 has a very long and flexible bellows. Long enough for a 480mm and compressible enough for very wide lenses. It would give you more than enough bellows for macro work and yet it folds into a tiny box.

Regarding a macro you have to balance the need to have some stand off from your subject matter and not too much bellows. I would recommend a true macro lens in the 180mm range. The nikkor 120 macro is good, but you'll find you're right on top of your subject and will have little room for light. I have the Rodenstock 180mm macro Sironar and consider it an excellent lens. However it is at best fair at longer distances. The Sironar-S line, while not a true macro, is excellent at moderate close work and excellent at distance work.

[Pete Watkins]

Ebonys are really nice to look at. They are over engineered in my opinion, and you can't fit a 65mm SA to one on an ordinary lensboard but I can do this on my Wista 45DX, I can even get a bit of movement (mainly front rise and fall).
Could sombody tell Steve Simmons to stop pushing that bloody magazine of his at every opportunity, it's getting boring.
Pete.

[Rider]

My first was a Toyo monorail camera which I picked up for under $200 with lensboard and film holders. It was a great learning tool, much better for learning, IMO than the wood field camera that I use now. I would have kept the Toyo but for space considerations; happily, I was able to get my money back.

For lenses, everyone will tell you (and they're right): don't start with a wide angle. Because of movements, LF lenses appear "wider" than their 35mm "counterparts."

The 180mm is agreat all-around focal length, and works quite well with the 90mm that you are heading towards.

[Eric Woodbury]

I recently traded in my metal Canham for the RW45 Ebony. The Canham is a very capable camera, but not as 'friendly' as the Ebony. Had it been a wooden Canham, it would have been fine. I'm use the 110 and the 150 the most, but use lenses from 58 to 300. Have fun.

[Matus Kalisky]

Although my experience is after one year still limited, I do use a Tachihara with 125, 210 and 400 (tele) lenses here is my opinion:

300 mm of bellows is not too much, but botanical shots with 210mm lens (up to ~ 1:2 reproduction ratio) is quite feasible. I did try some 1:1 shots with 125mm lens and following issues appeared:
- 125 is pretty short - you are getting very close to your subject
- at this reproduction ratio focusing with front standard gets very difficult as you change focus distance and lens-to-subject distance at the same time. In praxis it means that as you try to focus closer and closer the subjet-to-film plane distance is first increasing, then reaching a minimum and afterwards starts slowly to increase. This sound weird, but if you do the math you will find it out.
- Solution - for serious macro work (~ 1:1) get a camera with rear focusing (Tachihara can move the rear standard but it is not geared) with longer bellows of about 450mm (or 5x7 with reducing back) so that you can use 210 - 240 lens.

Otherwise the camera is plenty sturdy up to bellows extension ~ 250mm (infinity focus with mine 400mm Osaka tele lens) but once the maximal extension is used with heavier lens (Osaka has ~ 500g) one should be more carefull.

enjoy

Matus