Taking photos at narrows in Zion

[Songyun]

Anyone tried to take photos using large format camera at narrows? Is the tripod soaked in the water? do you carry the camera in a normal backpack or a waterproof backpack like the dry zone?

[Aggie]

depends if you hike from the top going down, or go up from the Temple. During this spring you will have high water, which makes it nearly impossible to go down or even go up. Think spring run off water surge. By mid summer you should be fine with water levels. I have yet to hike the narrows when I have not fallen at some point and gotten totally soaked. that without a camera. I know several photographers here that do hike the narrows with LF. They all use a water proof bag to keep their things safe while packed in a sturdy backpack. Very few places where the tripod will not be in the water. You're hiking a river bed with the walls of the canyon as the banks. Best times to do the narrows are either before the summer rains start about the first of July, or after labor day. I found October really nice. No matter what check with the rangers to make sure conditions are favorable for hiking.

[Songyun]

I will visit zion around June 7th. Maybe I will take a digital camera with me for the narrows.

[Jack Flesher]

I've done it in the fall by heading upstream from the parking lot at the temple of Sinawava, though I suspect there will be too much water with spring run-off. For the fall hike, I was basically in the water the entire time, hiking upstream against the current. In a few places the water was waist-deep -- and I am 6'-6" tall -- but most of the time only a foot or two. Sturdy and comfortable footwear and a wading staff are advisable, and I'd add in a set of waders if it is cool. I packed all my gear in dry bags, then carried those, water and food inside an internal frame backpack. Note that the only place I ever personally got stuck in quicksand was crossing a tributary feeding the Virgin River that appeared dry -- it wasn't dry. FWIW, I think the trip is worth it if you are up to it, but I would not attempt it alone; take a buddy.

My gear at the time was a Linhof Technikardan 4x5, 58, 90, 150 and 300mm lenses, two or three boxes of Fuji Quickloads and a gitzo tripod. Here are a few shots from that trip, though I've shown them on these forums before, so advance appologies for all who find this a boring repetition:

http://jack.cameraphile.org/albums/Web-Images/Virgin_River_Pointer_Web.jpg

http://jack.cameraphile.org/albums/Web-Images/Virgin_River_Black_Rock_Web.jpg

And one from near the starting point:
http://jack.cameraphile.org/albums/Web-Images/Zion_Color_Web.jpg

Cheers,

[Songyun]

Thanks Jack for sharing, I remember that photo by 58xl. I will decide if I am going to take the LF camera depending how deep is the water.

[John Brady]

Jack, those shot's never get boring!!! I love them every time I see them...
jb

[Simon Benton]

Inspiring photographs Jack!

[Songyun]

I think it might be a good idea to keep my bogen 3001 for a while, coz I don't wanna put a carbon fiber tripod in the sands.

[Jack Flesher]

My Gitzo was a CF. But you can pull the Gitzos apart to clean them -- and I definitely did need to do that after that trip!

[Aggie]

Lovely shots Jack. I really like that you stayed true to the real colors of the place.

[Rakesh Malik]

I don't see how shots like that could get boring just because one has seen them before -- which I have not :)

And now *I* want to go to Zion, too :)

[John Schneider]

I just love those photos!

There are some similar canyons in Arizona, but all I've taken on them up to now has been a Nikonos V and a digital point and shoot. Now I'm inspired to take a real camera along (although I guess a Nikonos can be considered a real camera).

Does anyone have any further advice about which camera to take (I can chose from a Gowland, Linhof TK, or Cambo Wide), and how to pack it? These canyons involve rappels, squeezes, and potholes of water that require swimming, so I don't know if these canyons exactly mirror Jack's requirements and experience.

The attached pic is of a wet canyon on Apache land. It was shot with the Nikonos, and illustrates the kind of conditions I'm trying to lug some large format gear through, in case that clarifies my question.

Thanks for any input.

[Jack Flesher]

Thanks for the kind comments!

Re camera choices for difficult terrain: For sure many other cameras besides a view camera would be more convenient. However, I used camera movements in all three of the shots above and don't think I could have achieved the same effect with a fixed camera, except for perhaps the last shot.

Cheers,

[Eric James]

I think it might be a good idea to keep my bogen 3001 for a while, coz I don't wanna put a carbon fiber tripod in the sands.

I would rather deal with a wet Gitzo CF than a wet Bogen 3001. Check this out:

http://www.naturescapes.net/082004/gd0804.htm

[Songyun]

depends if you hike from the top going down, or go up from the Temple. During this spring you will have high water, which makes it nearly impossible to go down or even go up. Think spring run off water surge. By mid summer you should be fine with water levels. I have yet to hike the narrows when I have not fallen at some point and gotten totally soaked. that without a camera. I know several photographers here that do hike the narrows with LF. They all use a water proof bag to keep their things safe while packed in a sturdy backpack. Very few places where the tripod will not be in the water. You're hiking a river bed with the walls of the canyon as the banks. Best times to do the narrows are either before the summer rains start about the first of July, or after labor day. I found October really nice. No matter what check with the rangers to make sure conditions are favorable for hiking.
What kind of waterproof bag? I was visiting a local outdoor store, where they showed me
Seal Line BAJA Dry Bag and SealLine Kodiak Taper Dry Bag. Is that good enough?

[Songyun]

I've done it in the fall by heading upstream from the parking lot at the temple of Sinawava, though I suspect there will be too much water with spring run-off. For the fall hike, I was basically in the water the entire time, hiking upstream against the current. In a few places the water was waist-deep -- and I am 6'-6" tall -- but most of the time only a foot or two. Sturdy and comfortable footwear and a wading staff are advisable, and I'd add in a set of waders if it is cool. I packed all my gear in dry bags, then carried those, water and food inside an internal frame backpack. Note that the only place I ever personally got stuck in quicksand was crossing a tributary feeding the Virgin River that appeared dry -- it wasn't dry. FWIW, I think the trip is worth it if you are up to it, but I would not attempt it alone; take a buddy.

My gear at the time was a Linhof Technikardan 4x5, 58, 90, 150 and 300mm lenses, two or three boxes of Fuji Quickloads and a gitzo tripod. Here are a few shots from that trip, though I've shown them on these forums before, so advance appologies for all who find this a boring repetition:


Jack, I have 90 110 210 300 maybe borrow a 65, what lens would you recommend for the narrows? I can not take all of them to the narrows.

[John Schneider]

Roll top dry bags are made for kayakers etc. to keep spashed water out. They are NOT for immersion or forceful water (rapelling under a waterfall etc.). Except for using in my kayak to keep bilge water off clothing, I have not had luck with them. For cameras I would use a hard shell (Pelican etc.) case, or a *real* dry bag (DUI etc.) with waterproof zipper and impermeable material (not coated fabric) -- basically a drysuit for gear.

[avidphotographer]

I have taken photographs in the Zion narrows many times with my Fuji 6X9 and 6X17. I have hiked the entire narrows from top to bottom as well as day hiked it numerous times from the bottom up to the best narrows.

Unless you really want the adventure of hiking from the top (Chamberlain's Ranch) to the bottom (Temple of Sinawava), I would just day hike it up from the Temple of Siawava. The top to bottom hike requires an overnight stay just upstream from the best narrows. You will also need a permit, which can be tough to obtain, and you have to deal with the logistics of getting dropped off at Chamberlain's Ranch. The best narrows are just upstream from Orderville Canyon. This is an easy dayhike, and no permit is required.

I talked with the Zion NPS last Friday, May 11, and they advised that the narrows is now open and running at 54 cfs with a water temp of 48 deg. F. The water level is extremely low for this time of year. Normally the narrows does not open until early to mid June. This is probably a result of the very low snowpack in Utah this winter. The snowpack meltoff in Southwest Utah is already complete.

The water temp is pretty cool, but it should warm up dramatically between now and early to mid June. I am guessing the water temp will most likely be in the 60s by then. I plan on day hiking the narrows and doing some photography the week of June 11. Of course, you always have to worry about being in slot canyons with thunderstorms. Climatology indicates that June is one of the driest months in Zion. The monsoon can bring thunderstorms to Southwestern Utah, but it does not normally begin until early July. You can always hike the narrows in the fall after the monsoon has subsided (late Sept / early Oct), however, the water temp will cool quickly and the sun angle does not provide as much reflected light off of the canyon walls as late spring / early summer.

*****You should always check the current conditions at the visitor center prior to entering the Narrows.*****

I have carried my gear in waterproof bags in a backpack, but this is only when the water level is high. At low water levels, I would just carry it in a backpack. As long as you don't fall, you shouldn't have any problems. I would recommend wearing some footwear with ankle support as the water can be a bit cloudy and you can't see your footing at times around all of the rocks. Also, I highly recommend hiking poles to assist in keeping your balance.

The Narrows is fantastic. Enjoy your trip!

[Jack Flesher]

Jack, I have 90 110 210 300 maybe borrow a 65, what lens would you recommend for the narrows? I can not take all of them to the narrows.

I would borrow the 65 for sure. You could probably make do with either the 90 or the 110 and not bother with both, then use either the 210 or the 300. In my images above, the rock was the 58, the tree was the 90 and the colored trees was with the 300.

If I went back now and wanted to go really light, I would take the 65, 90, and 210.

Cheers,

[Jeffrey Sipress]

Beautiful stuff, Jack.

I strongly recommend renting or owning a pair of 5-10 Canyoneering shoes with neoprene liners, and using two shock absorbing hiking poles. A pair of waders will help keep body heat in.

[John Schneider]

Good idea; 5.10 Canyoneers stick to wet rock like velcro. They don't last long, but they're still worth every penny of the $100 they cost. Zion Outdoor in Springdale UT carries/rents them.