Apo 135mm lenses..

[Former Member 8144]

I am looking at getting a 135mm (and possibly 180mm) lens.

Most of the ones at these focal lengths I am interested in..rodenstock and schneiders are apo lenses.

I have read in some places that these apochromatic lenses are corrected to focus with the three primary colours on the film plane and as such are designed to perform in close up work in particular and they are not so good at infinity focus work unless stopped down.

Now for much of my work I like to be able use lenses close to wide open and almost always at infinity focus so will I not get good results from these apo lenses?

If not would this mean having to go for a nikon or fuji lens at this focal length even though in general I prefer to use the rodenstocks where possible.


Thanks,

Marc

[Bob Salomon]

Marc,

The definition of Apo for the Schneider and Rodenstock lenses is that the lateral chromatic aberrations in the secondary spectrum have been corrected to a minute percentage of the focal length of the lens.

The definition you cited is the Abbe definition used for microscophy and process work.

The results from the Rodenstock Apo Sironar S will be outstanding in any application you will use with reproduction ratios from 1:5 out to infinity.

An apo macro lens like the Apo Macro Sironar will perform best on reproductions ratios from 1:5 to 5:1 with 3 dimensional subjects. A process lens like an Apo Ronar will be best for 2 dimensional objects at near life size.

[Former Member 8144]

Thanks Bob, that has cleared that up for me..I am now coming across another issue with most of the 135mm lenses..small IC...as I like to use large tilt and swing and often rise I may have a problem there..

thanks again re the apo issue.

Marc

[Dan Fromm]

Marc, for some reason when I think of apochromatic lenses I think of process lenses. There are few as short as 135 mm and in general ones that short don't have the coverage you think you need. They are also much slower than you think you need, maximum apertures are on the order of f/9 - f/10.

Not everyone agrees with me about usability of process lenses for general photography, but most of the ones I've used on 2x3 (focal lengths 150 mm - 480 mm and I now have a 135 that I haven't used yet) have been just dandy. But I don't think any of them even remotely fits the requirements you've set forth. And it could be that my standards are too low.

Perhaps you might reconsider your requirements. While you're thinking harder about how to acheive your ends, why don't you get a good grade of modern 6/4 (more or less) plasmat type taking lens -- start with a 150 -- and see how badly it fails to meet your requirements.

[Henry Ambrose]

I am looking at getting a 135mm (and possibly 180mm) lens.
Now for much of my work I like to be able use lenses close to wide open and almost always at infinity focus so will I not get good results from these apo lenses?

and later -

I am now coming across another issue with most of the 135mm lenses..small IC...as I like to use large tilt and swing and often rise I may have a problem there..



The 180 will have plenty of coverage for any movements you want on 4x5. The 135 will be relatively small coverage but for your first set of requirements it'll be plenty.

The Rodenstock Sironar S lenses are absolutley first class. I own both - you will not be dissapointed.

You seem to set contradictory requirements "infinity focus, wide open" and then "plenty of movements" (I paraphrase your words)

What the heck are you photographing? I detect possible confusion.

(If the 135 is short on coverage then you should look at the Schneider 110 XL)

[Former Member 8144]

Hi henry,

I am working on a project that involves highly selective focus using both tilt and swing simultaneuosely focussed on objects or areas that are 95% likely to be at infinity focus often with a very shallow depth of field.

The rise I like to have as I also do much interior, architectural images.

Marc

[Songyun]

Marc,

The definition of Apo for the Schneider and Rodenstock lenses is that the lateral chromatic aberrations in the secondary spectrum have been corrected to a minute percentage of the focal length of the lens.

The definition you cited is the Abbe definition used for microscophy and process work.

The results from the Rodenstock Apo Sironar S will be outstanding in any application you will use with reproduction ratios from 1:5 out to infinity.

An apo macro lens like the Apo Macro Sironar will perform best on reproductions ratios from 1:5 to 5:1 with 3 dimensional subjects. A process lens like an Apo Ronar will be best for 2 dimensional objects at near life size.

Bob, Does the "APO" make any difference between apo sironar-n and sironar-n?
Kerry and almost everyone here said not much difference. Once someone told me that there is some difference between them, but I don't think that is a reliable source. Can you give me some information on this? If I can get some official information, I can tell him that he is wrong.

[Bob Salomon]

"Does the "APO" make any difference between apo sironar-n and sironar-n"

The last Sironar N MC and the first Apo Sironar N? No difference.

The first Sironar N and the last Apo Sironar N/ Yes there will be differences.

[Songyun]

"Does the "APO" make any difference between apo sironar-n and sironar-n"

The last Sironar N MC and the first Apo Sironar N? No difference.

The first Sironar N and the last Apo Sironar N/ Yes there will be differences.
you mean age of the lens?

[davidb]

I'm assuming the Schneider 135mm APO-Symmar I just got will work just fine on my Zone VI 4x5 without any issues?

[Kevin Crisp]

Assuming it is in good shape, a 1954 Symmar 135mm lens would work great on your Zone VI without any issues.

[Mark Sampson]

davidbram, you'll be a lot more comfortable using the bag bellows with a 135mm lens on a Zone VI 4x5. The standard bellows isn't real flexible when compressed that far.

[Ted Harris]

Hmmmmmmmm, Mark, I agree with the bellows compression issue when you are dealing wtih 75mm and shorter,maybe even with 90mm but 135? I have used a Zone VI and never had a problem withbellows compression with a 135mm lens. In fact, I can't thinkof a camera where you do have a bellows compression problem with a 135. Of course, that is my experience and YMMV.

[justin mueller]

135mm lens - I like my 135mm zeiss planar f3.5. nice bright image on the GG and nice sharp zeiss optics...coverage is not much to shout about.

[Gordon Moat]

Hi henry,

I am working on a project that involves highly selective focus using both tilt and swing simultaneuosely focussed on objects or areas that are 95% likely to be at infinity focus often with a very shallow depth of field.

The rise I like to have as I also do much interior, architectural images.

Marc

Hello Marc,

Almost sounds like some of the imagery I have been shooting in the last year. Currently I am using a 135mm Symmar-S and 180mm Nikkor-W. Sometimes at f5.6 or f8.0, I run out of IC on the 135mm, though a dark corner here or there might not be detrimental to the final result. With the 180mm, I never run out of IC, even wide open.

Basically, I got the 180mm after deciding I wanted an affordable lens with greater IC than the 135mm I was using. Another benefit is that the selective focus ability seems easer with the longer lens. Given a larger budget, I don't know if I would be any happier with a more expensive lens than with those I am now using.

When you combine movement for selective focus, the in-focus range becomes more like a wedge. Elements closer to the camera might be thought of as the small part of the wedge, while elements further away fall into the wide part of the in-focus range. Not sure if that makes sense, though hopefully someone else can explain this better that I just did.

Visualizing these types of images when you are at a location, can be very confusing at times. It really is somewhat counter intuitive, until you do many of these types of shots. A screen brightner or fresnel can help, though the effect is easier at longer focal lengths. I wish I had some examples to share with you, but I am behind in scanning and updating.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

[Former Member 8144]

Hi gordon,

Yes that is the type of thing.
I used this affect a fair bit many years ago whilst at college and although I liked it have waited for a suiatable project to revisit it.

I am going for rodenstock lenses in the end as they offer me the best combination of larger image circle and apertures with very good reports of image quality both in the in and out of focus areas over all in the three lenses I am using..and I am sticking to one brand to keep the look the same.

Cheers,

Marc

www.marcwilson.co.uk