best "lightweight" 8x10 camera in windy condition ?

[archivue]

toyo II, Arca Fline, Sinar Norma, phillips compact2... ?

i have played in windy conditions with a canham (wood), and i'm less than satisfied...

[Andrew O'Neill]

I have a Canham 8x10 lightweight and it is not stable until you put a stabilizer kit on it...but then there is all that bellows to contend with to with long lenses. I usually don't shoot in wind as there doesn't seem to be much in the wee hours of the morning or evening.

[archivue]

stabilizer kit ?

[Walter Calahan]

All 8x10 cameras will be sails in windy conditions. Shooting into the wind helps, or to the back of the camera. Shooting with short glass and a short bellows is also helpful. Sometime shielding the camera with your car, truck, umbrella, wall, large tree, etc., helps. What you really need is a heavy weight camera, that is extremely ridged, with stiff bellows, locked down on a large tripod, using high shutter speeds. Good luck.

[paul stimac]

Wehman 8x10 - http://www.wehmancamera.com/camera.html
It's about as stable as a Calumet C-1 but w/o the weight.

[Bill_1856]

Like Military Intelligence, an oxymoron.

[scott_6029]

A large golf umbrella :)

[Alan Davenport]

Since it's an 8x10 that we're talking about, I recommend (for windy conditions) a nice pint of chocolate stout, a leather armchair and a fire.

[Don Hutton]

Wehman 8x10 - http://www.wehmancamera.com/camera.html
It's about as stable as a Calumet C-1 but w/o the weight.

I owned a Wehman for about a month - sorry - there is no way that it is a stable camera. The single tripod hole is a major design flaw in my opinion. There is basically no "stable" way to use a lens of 450mm or more: once the front standard goes onto the "clamshell" - the front of the camera becomes cantilevered from the tripod mount and it's stability is simply appaling - unusable in any conditions other than perfect without an array of "stabilizer" help, such as a monopod or arm to help the front "unsupported"section. It may have 30 inches of bellows or whatever, but only the first 15 or so are really useable in the field. I sold it ASAP.

I have a Phillips compact II which really is surprisingly stable. The design allows less movement in the front of the camera than other designs which helps. I presume a Shen Hao FL810 which uses pretty much the same idea would also be pretty stable, but I haven't actually seen one in the flesh; only pics from proud owners and it certainly does look like the screaming "buy" in the 8x10s available. Obviously, when you get bellows racked out, as has been pointed out elsewhere, it's a big sail...

[Kevin Crisp]

I'm with Scott on this. I read the obvious when you think about it but brilliant idea of carrying a golf umbrella (on this forum) and tried it and it really does the trick.

[Don Hutton]

I'm with Scott on this. I read the obvious when you think about it but brilliant idea of carrying a golf umbrella (on this forum) and tried it and it really does the trick.Yeah - it's really cute when the freak gust blows the umbrella into your rig and ensures that the whole thing gets dashed to the ground.... It helps, but is not without it's own considerations....

[Chris Strobel]

Calumet C-1 (black heavy one}, and a Ries A-100-2 tripod work for me :)


toyo II, Arca Fline, Sinar Norma, phillips compact2... ?

i have played in windy conditions with a canham (wood), and i'm less than satisfied...

[Kevin Crisp]

I guess I've avoided that cute situation. When it it really windy the umbrella goes over my shoulder with my body between the umbrella and the camera so that this does not happen. If the wind is strong enough to blow me over then maybe it is time to give it a rest.

[Mark Stahlke]

Since it's an 8x10 that we're talking about, I recommend (for windy conditions) a nice pint of chocolate stout, a leather armchair and a fire.
It's windy here right now. Can I come over? :D

Cheers,
Mark

[tim loose]

I've had success by adding weight to the camera like my camera case(backpack) it seems this helps to provide inertia to the system. 8x10's are large and the tighter the locking features the better.

[Kirk Gittings]

Read "dealing with wind"

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=20467&highlight=dealing+wind

[paul stimac]

I owned a Wehman for about a month - sorry - there is no way that it is a stable camera. The single tripod hole is a major design flaw in my opinion. There is basically no "stable" way to use a lens of 450mm or more: once the front standard goes onto the "clamshell" - the front of the camera becomes cantilevered from the tripod mount and it's stability is simply appaling - unusable in any conditions other than perfect without an array of "stabilizer" help, such as a monopod or arm to help the front "unsupported"section. It may have 30 inches of bellows or whatever, but only the first 15 or so are really useable in the field. I sold it ASAP.
...

I have had the opposite experience. I regularly use a 1200mm on mine with good results. I have about the same keeper rate as with a calumet c-1. Maybe it’s your head/tripod combo? I had a ball head for a while and I had problems. Now I use a beefy bogen pan tilt head (3047) and tighten it down. The tripod I use is big and heavy also - (bogen 3033). The cantilever is an issue when aiming while extended with a heavy lens, though it's something you get used to. The cantilever is not a problem, however, when the head is tightened.

In addition to the c-1, I've also used a toyo m 8x10, a kodak master view 8x10, a Burke & James 8x10, and a Wista 8x10. The Wehman beat all these for stability in the wind with big lenses. I'd still be using the c-1 if the Wehman weren’t so steady.

[Vaughn]

Kirk, thanks for the link! The best advice I read was to include "Wind" in the title!

My bellows has a loop sewn in about a third of the way back that hooks onto the front standard - using it seems to help keep thing a little more stable in a breeze.

But the chocolate stout sounds like the best solution!

Vaughn

[Chris Strobel]

Paul, you weren't trying to use your C-1 on the 3047 head were you?If so no wonder your Wehman is more steady.I use a 3047 myself for my 4x5 and DSLR's, but would never dream of putting a C-1 on a 3047.


I have had the opposite experience. I regularly use a 1200mm on mine with good results. I have about the same keeper rate as with a calumet c-1. Maybe it’s your head/tripod combo? I had a ball head for a while and I had problems. Now I use a beefy bogen pan tilt head (3047) and tighten it down. The tripod I use is big and heavy also - (bogen 3033). The cantilever is an issue when aiming while extended with a heavy lens, though it's something you get used to. The cantilever is not a problem, however, when the head is tightened.

In addition to the c-1, I've also used a toyo m 8x10, a kodak master view 8x10, a Burke & James 8x10, and a Wista 8x10. The Wehman beat all these for stability in the wind with big lenses. I'd still be using the c-1 if the Wehman weren’t so steady.

[Don Hutton]

I have had the opposite experience. I regularly use a 1200mm on mine with good results. I have about the same keeper rate as with a calumet c-1. Maybe it’s your head/tripod combo? I had a ball head for a while and I had problems. Now I use a beefy bogen pan tilt head (3047) and tighten it down. The tripod I use is big and heavy also - (bogen 3033). The cantilever is an issue when aiming while extended with a heavy lens, though it's something you get used to. The cantilever is not a problem, however, when the head is tightened.

In addition to the c-1, I've also used a toyo m 8x10, a kodak master view 8x10, a Burke & James 8x10, and a Wista 8x10. The Wehman beat all these for stability in the wind with big lenses. I'd still be using the c-1 if the Wehman weren’t so steady.Well, I tried it on a Gitzo 1548 with an Arca Swiss B2 head and plate. Absolutely the most stable rig I have ever used. The Wehamn sways about - it's caused by the thin aluminium plate of the clamshell bending all over the place whenever there is the slightest air movement - not from the tripod/head combination. Basically, it's like hanging a heavy lump at the end of a yard long piece of 1/16" ally plate. I'm happy you can get results with it. I thought it was very poor design and pretty "industrial" finish. With short lenses, the camera is OK. I'm astounded that you get "good results" on it with your 1200mm - I know no-one who manages consistently good results with that lens without another support under the front standard, even on cameras which are way more rigid than a Wehman and are sensibly designed with a tripod mount in the middle at full extension.

[paul stimac]

Paul, you weren't trying to use your C-1 on the 3047 head were you?If so no wonder your Wehman is more steady.I use a 3047 myself for my 4x5 and DSLR's, but would never dream of putting a C-1 on a 3047.

no with the c-1 I used a surveyor's tripod and a majestic head.... very very stable.

[paul stimac]

Well, I tried it on a Gitzo 1548 with an Arca Swiss B2 head and plate. Absolutely the most stable rig I have ever used. The Wehamn sways about - it's caused by the thin aluminium plate of the clamshell bending all over the place whenever there is the slightest air movement - not from the tripod/head combination. Basically, it's like hanging a heavy lump at the end of a yard long piece of 1/16" ally plate. I'm happy you can get results with it. I thought it was very poor design and pretty "industrial" finish. With short lenses, the camera is OK. I'm astounded that you get "good results" on it with your 1200mm - I know no-one who manages consistently good results with that lens without another support under the front standard, even on cameras which are way more rigid than a Wehman and are sensibly designed with a tripod mount in the middle at full extension.


That's the head I had trouble with...the B2 - especially with the mount at the rear of the camera. It was too hard to aim with. Plus I just didn't get sharp pics when I used it – not one.

With the 1200 (and 800), for stability, I tie a parachute cord from the front standard to the bottom of my tripod leg and snug it up. This helps a lot. I've been doing this ever since I started shooting 8x10. Also, lately, if it's windy at all, I set up a portable bow hunters blind/tent and shoot out of that. It totally blocks the wind/rain/snow and it only takes a few minutes to set up and take down.

[Jim Noel]

When working in windy conditions with any sheet film camera I use local rocks to steady the camera.
I carry a mesh laundry bag, which weighs only an ounce or two, and when needed I tie it to the bottom of the tripod head and fill it with rocks. The added weight acts as an anchor. (If the wind is strong enough to blow a heavy bag of rocks, I probably can't stand up anyway.)
The cameras do not move. The bellows may blow, but I shield it as much as possible with the darkcloth, and don't end up with camera movement evident on the negative.

[John Voss]

Since it's an 8x10 that we're talking about, I recommend (for windy conditions) a nice pint of chocolate stout, a leather armchair and a fire.


Some people here are a lot wiser than others! ;)

[John Kasaian]

Since it's an 8x10 that we're talking about, I recommend (for windy conditions) a nice pint of chocolate stout, a leather armchair and a fire.

Quite civilized. I like that. If one must be out in the wind, I like to be as low to the ground as practical, taking advantage of any terrain & flora thats around to block the wind.

[Chris Strobel]

no with the c-1 I used a surveyor's tripod and a majestic head.... very very stable.

And your Wehman is more stable on a 3047 head with a 1200mm lens?How are you using a 1200mm lens on a Wehman since the max bellows extension is 30 inches.A 1200mm lens
is 47 inches?

[paul stimac]

And your Wehman is more stable on a 3047 head with a 1200mm lens?How are you using a 1200mm lens on a Wehman since the max bellows extension is 30 inches.A 1200mm lens
is 47 inches?

The Wehman is not more stable. The C1 is a tank. But I get about the same amount of keepers - though I haven't actually counted. I use the Wehman because it's easier to carry. The 1200 is a tele - it only needs about 30 inches at infinity. With the front standard tilted forward and the lens board tilted parallel I have about 2" to spare at infinity.

[Don Hutton]

Hmmm... I saw a post of yours some time ago where you thought stated that "I doubt that any field camera is more stable or more rugged (than the Wehman)". I'm really happy that you like your camera, but a statement like that suggests that you haven't worked with too many other modern 8x10 field cameras - every other modern long extension 8x10 I have owned leaves it in the dust on both counts (an Ebony - which was way heavier, a Lotus and a Phillips - which is the same weight but super stable). There's only one positive I see in a Wehman and that is the price point and I'd suggest that the new Shen Hao FL-810 at the same price is probably a much more precise and stable tool.

[paul stimac]

Right, I have never tried an Ebony, a Lotus, or a Phillips (plus many others). But I have tried a Calumet C-1 and I still feel that the Wehman is comparable to it with a 1200mm TELE. It's not as strong but it's very close. I seriously doubt that Ebony, Lotus, or Phillips are nearly as stable as the C-1...I doubt that any field camera is, maybe I'm wrong…as has been established - I haven’t tried them ALL. However, that's what I based the statement on that you were referring to - – actual experience with a C-1 & Wehman with a 1200mm lens. I didn’t realize I was on trial when I wrote it. The Wehman works very well for me... obviously not for you… it's good that you're not using it anymore.

[Deniz Merdanogullari]

just to add to the list, 8x10 double extension Tachihara is not stable with anything longer than 350mm in the wind, heck not even in still weather. But rock solid with the 210 and the 150mm!

[Brian C. Miller]

Hmmm, what about the Hobo camera (http://www.bostick-sullivan.com/cart/home.php?cat=237) or the Fotoman 810PS (http://www.fotomancamera.com/product_list.asp?id=167)? If you can't make those stable, then maybe you shouldn't be out in that hurricane.

[Gary Smith]

I have a Wehman 8x10, and love it. Its a great camera thats light weight and built like a tank. That being said, precision is not word I would associate with it. But, regardless its a great camera, which its very stable.

I had a Tachihara for a while as well, and agree its not that stable.

For really windy conditions, my 4x5 or RZ67 work much better.

Gary

[John Powers]

Two weekends ago Bob Herbst and I were shooting on a bridge, 90 feet above a wide river, in a high wind. Bob had his solid old style 28 pound Wisner 12x20. I had a somewhat lighter (12 lb.) Phillips 7x17. Using a short (273mm wa Raptar) lens kept my bellows silhouette small. Standing beside the 18 foot ODOT (Ohio Dept. of Transportation) van helped more. Without the truck we were just hanging on for dear life. No pictures would have been made. If you have to work in the wind, find a solid shelter. It is all relative to wind speed, but I think an umbrella would have given us a quick 250 mile trip to Chicago.

John Powers