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Chip Williams
20-Apr-2007, 13:27
A lot has changed since I was last here. This forum was very helpful in providing me with the information I needed to purchase my Arca Swiss 4x5 F-Line Classic (171) back in 2000. As many have noted, the information can be spotty on these cameras, so I poured through all the threads I could find back in '99-2000 before deciding the A/S was the right camera for the way I planned to work. The camera has in fact served me well over the years with my editorial and corporate portrait work. I have a Schneider SS 110XL and Sironar-S 180mm and usually switch between my wide angle synth bellows and standard bellows respectively.

I wonder if the leather w/a bellows they offer for my 171x171 setup would work well with both my lenses? It looks like the camera would store better with the leather w/a bellows. I've found mixed info on whether it will handle the range of my two lenses well? I don't think the camera packs well when leaving my w/a synth bellows on and I don't like using them with my 180mm and usually switch back to the standard synth bellows (38cm). This camera is almost perfect for me except for this one issue which I would love to resolve for a simple $350 at Badger Graphics.

Also, since revisiting this site after a long absence, it was news to me that Arca Swiss has changed their frame formats to 141. (Man, have I been out of the loupe...pardon the pun.) The new 4x5 Field version that I saw on one of the threads looks a lot more compact than my older F-line. Do I understand correctly that the new leather conical bellows (30cm) for this camera have a greater focal length range than what's available for my present set-up? If so, is it crazy to think about purchasing two new format frames (6x9-141) and new conical leather bellow to completely revamp my existing camera into something much more compact and lighter? Probably should just buy the camera new...right? The fact that I can even consider this is part of the reasoning behind why I bought an Arca Swiss in the first place. Anyway, thank you in advance for any informed help you may have and happy shooting.

Best,
Chip

Kerry L. Thalmann
20-Apr-2007, 14:28
Chip,

I'm a big fan of the ARCA-SWISS system and love the way it can be adapted to any application. I have made 4x10 and 7x17 conversion kits for my ARCA-SWISS. Like you, my original camera was a 171mm/171mm 4x5 F-Line Classic. For the 4x10 system, I converted to a 110mm front standard and subsequently upgraded to a 110mm F-Metric front format frame with the Micrometric Orbix option. Since I'm still using my original F-Line front function carrier, I don't get the geared shift provided by the F-Metric function carrier, but I do get self-arresting geared front rise/fall and and geared front axis tilt. I also use this same configuration for my 4x5 shooting and have become quite spoiled by the geared front movements.

To answer your question, I have the 171/110 leather wide angle bellows. They are superb. ARCA-SWISS lists the maximum extension as 24cm, and they handle my 210mm lens without difficulty(as long as I'm not shooting close-ups). So, they should handle a 180mm APO Sironar-S with ease. With this bellows installed, the camera collapses into a nice, compact package for transport. One option that would meet your needs would be to get a 110mm front function carrier and combine it with the 171/110 leather wide angle bellows. That would permit using your 110mm and 180mm lenses without swapping bellows and would also get you a smaller, lighter camera.

With my 171/110 configuration, I've used lenses from 55mm to 450mm (or 720mm telephoto) with two ARCA-SWISS bellows - the 24cm leather wide angle bellows and the 50cm long bellows. My normal lens kit consist of 80mm, 110mm, 150mm, 210mm, 300mm and 450mm. Since there is significant overlap in the middle, I'm not constantly swapping bellows. I really only need to change the bellows when going from wide to long, or vise versa. If I'm shooting anywhere in the 80mm - 210mm range, I just leave the 24cm leather bellows installed. It's only when moving up to the 300mm or 450mm that I have to swap to the 50cm long bellows. Going the other way, the long bellows can be used all the way down to 150mm (actually, down to 110mm, but movements are restricted, so I usually change back to the 24cm bellows).

As you mentioned, the 20cm 171/171 wide angle leather bellows would be your least expensive option. Obviously, this will let you focus your 180mm lens at infinity, but limits your ability to focus closer and may also restrict your movements at full extension. If no one else posts an answer, I throw this bellows on my camera in the next day or two and see how close I can focus and how much movement I get with a 180mm lens.

Of course, for the ultimate in compactness you could upgrade your rear format frame to the new 141mm size and then get a 110mm front format frame (I recommend the F-Metric with Micrometric Orbix option) and the new 141/110 30cm bellows. That would be a sweet camera that would easily handle all your needs. However, it may be more economical to just sell your current camera and buy an entire new camera that's configured in this manner - perhaps even a new Misura which is ARCA's lightest, most compact model.

As you know, with ARCA-SWISS the options are almost limitless. Since I'm still stuck in the 171mm world, I'm not totally up to date on all the new 141mm options - especially the pricing. For this reason, I suggest you contact a reputable ARCA-SWISS dealer - Rod Klukas at Photomark, Jeff Taugner at Badger Graphic or Jim Andraki at Midwest Photo Exchange are all great to deal with, I recommend them all without hesitation - and discuss the various options and the cost of each. Getting what you want isn't a problem. ARCA-SWISS makes a number of bellows that will meet your modest needs. The question is what other new features/options do you want and what is your budget for such upgrades. Talking to a dealer will help you make these decisions.

Kerry

archivue
20-Apr-2007, 14:40
i've sold my 171 Fline in order to buy a 141 kit for my 6X9... fantastic choice !
one bellow only from my 58 to my 360 (infiny...)!

the binocular viewer reminds the same !

go for it, if you can !

c marks
20-Apr-2007, 14:58
Chip-

I have an Arca with 171 frames and I use the WA leather bellows as my main bellows. I have a 210mm lens as my long lens and find that the WA leather is fine. At infinity I can get full rise. If you take it out to the end of the rails (about 240mm of extension) and do rise, it will go but the bellows starts to contort or crease and might effect the light path. At half rise, not an issue, but with a full rise it might be an issue.

I can also do a fairly big tilt getting foreground and infinity since you end up bringing focus shorter.

So for regular use, I think the 171 WA Leather bellows is the way to go. If you are mainly a macro shooter it might not be enough. For general use, landscape, etc, I think it is plenty for a 210. And it is also fantastic with shorter lenses.

Finally it stores well. Because it is pleated, it naturally folds up neatly. It sticks out beyond the frame slightly but I have never felt like it was being worn at all carrying it in a Lowe Pro backpack.

Yes, the $350 is steep but it is a VERY NICE bellows. I usually throw the standard 38cm bellows into my film bag when I go on trips as a backup but have yet to take it out in the 15 months I have had the WA leather bellows.

Good luck.

Walter Calahan
20-Apr-2007, 16:26
Yes yes yes, but will you be able to make more compelling images that make you happy, or is it a purchase to fuel the economy?

Eric Brody
20-Apr-2007, 16:51
The 141 was the new standard when I decided to get my Arca in 2006. After I spoke to my friend Evan Clarke, who has more Arcas than I have pairs of shoes, and to Rod Klukas at Photomark, who was great to deal with and from whom I bought the camera, I decided on the F-Line Field with the 110 front and 141 rear and the folding 30 cm rail. The bellows is a work of art and covers my lenses, which range from 75 to 360 tele easily (with an extension rail for the tele). The camera fits in the same bag I used for my Toyo 45A (which is still for sale), though it does take up a bit more room in the bag.

If you're happy with the camera, I'd probably see what bellows would work best as per Kerry's suggestion. If you really want the latest and greatest, sell yours and get the new one. I have been supremely happy with mine.

Good luck.

Eric

Chip Williams
21-Apr-2007, 19:26
Kerry,
Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge and give a thorough explanation of my three options for tweaking my setup. Sounds like the more money I am willing to spend, the closer I can get to my truly "universal" bellows ideal. It's a shame A/S doesn't offer that new 30cm leather bellows (141 Field) for either the 171 or 141 4x5 format frames.

c marks,
Thanks for sharing your experience with that bellows on our "old school" 171's. Sounds like that will accomplish what I need with my 180mm. I have been thinking about swapping it for a 210mm for my portrait work so it's good to know it will work with that bellows as well.

Walter,
I always enjoy your wit over at SS. I think one photographer accusing another of merely "fueling the economy" when considering equipment options a bit of "the pot calling the kettle black...but thank you for your fatherly advice. As you would know, the real fueling of the economy happens over Nikon digital and Apple computer purchases. My large format purchases happen only 7-10 years. There's a lot less obsolescence with the large format gear and Arca Swiss in particular due to their modular design...Amen brother!

Thanks for all your help. I'll call Jeff over at Badger next week to figure out what all these modular options might cost me.

Best,
Chip