Question for Old Camera Restorers

[David Karp]

Hi everyone,

I am the proud owner of an old Improved Seneca Full Plate view camera, by way of its last owner, Mr. Galli.

According to this site, http://www.fiberq.com/cam/seneca/sennew.htm, the camera is made of mahogany (with a cherry base) finished in black pigmented lacquer. For a second I was thinking about removing the paint and refinishing the mahogany. My assumption is that the paint has lead in it, so I am not sure I really want to do that. After looking at it for a while, I think that the black is kind of cool looking. It makes a nice companion for my black Walker Titan! It would be nice to touch it up and spray the wooden parts with lacquer or some other finish. Do I have to remove the original finish first? I really don't think I want to do that if I don't have to. Any suggestions on what to use on the finish?

The hardware is brass with a polished nickel finish and it looks like it will polish up nicely. Some of the screws are rusted. Any suggestions for sourcing appropriate replacements? I might just forget about this, but maybe?

The rear extension rail is missing. Anyone have one laying around?

The bellows is workable now, but it will need replacing. I am pondering a DIY job, but have not yet convinced myself that I will A) have the time, or B) do it right if I have the time. Of course, I don't have any holders yet, so I may have time to build a few bellows to get it right. (Of course, that may end up costing as much as a professionally made bellows.) If it was a square bellows, I might be less apprehensive, but this one is tapered, and for some reason I am less confident in my ability to do it right. For a pro-made bellows, my first thought was Camera Bellows in the UK. I have heard nothing but good things about them. Then I found out that Western Bellows is still around. I work not too far from Western Bellows, so I wonder if anyone here has used them recently, or has any comments about them. It would be nice to know before I make a decision on this part of my project.

Any other suggestions on anything relevant to this are welcome.

Thanks in advance.

[Jim Galli]

Dave, I got a Deardorff 8X10 bellows from Western Bellows within the last year. Very pretty. $250 iirc. jg

[David Karp]

Hi Jim,

The more I look at the camera, the more I like it. It is surprisingly light for its size, and has plenty of movements. I already have an idea for making some lensboards, and perhaps a Technika-type adapter.

Thanks for the information on the bellows. I found the photo of the one you made from a BBQ cover. It looks great. I am intrigued, but for some reason the idea of a tapered bellows seems more difficult than a straight one. Have you tried a tapered?

Thanks also for the tip on Western Bellows.

[Jim Galli]

Dave, all of them have been tapered so far. That first one on the home portrait was perhaps the most difficult because the sides were a different taper than the top and bottom. Worked out nicely though. jg

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, David,


...Then I found out that Western Bellows is still around. I work not too far from Western Bellows, so I wonder if anyone here has used them recently, or has any comments about them. It would be nice to know before I make a decision on this part of my project.

Will Thompson has had them make a bellows for him, and seemed quite pleased. Perhaps he will chime in here.

[Frank R]

You do not have to strip lacquer before refinishing. Wipe any dirt off with a damp rag and let it dry. If your new finish is black lacquer, it will slightly dissolve the old finish and melt into it. You can get amazing results from a good quality spray paint in a can. A very handy tool to use here are the accessory plastic spray handles that snap onto the top of a spray can and act like a paint gun. They are great and only cost about $3.

Try smallparts.com for hardware.

Unless the finish is really bad you may want to just leave it alone.

[Randy H]

The finish actuallt looked pretty good from the pics. Clean it up and go shoot with it. Knowing Jim, you probably don't have much cleaning to do. As for bellows, check with Mark Kapono. From my understanding, he is extremely reasonable, and has an extremely nice product. His thread with email and info is here:http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=23879&highlight=bellows

[Randy H]

AND!!!
Leave it black, man. It looks cool that way. I have actually thought about painting my conley 5X7 satin black with white pinstriping on the edges. I have a home-brewed, hand-held 5X7 that I painted all black. It is made from maple. But, I like the look of the black.

[andy bessette]

Hi everyone,

the camera is made of mahogany (with a cherry base) finished in black pigmented lacquer. For a second I was thinking about removing the paint and refinishing the mahogany...

It would be nice to touch it up and spray the wooden parts with lacquer or some other finish. Do I have to remove the original finish first? I really don't think I want to do that if I don't have to. Any suggestions on what to use on the finish?

The bellows is workable now, but it will need replacing.

Any other suggestions on anything relevant to this are welcome.



Yo David,

it seems logical to keep the finish as close as possible to original.

If you must touchup or refinish, use the same-as-original materials.

If that is lacquer, the touchup should be lacquer. If it is enamel (perhaps likely), then touchup with enamel, as lacquer may lift the finish, and should never be applied over enamel. Although it is usually safe to apply enamel over lacquer if necessary.

A good used bellows would save you a lot of work.

Try to retain the old fasteners, or find identical used replacements. Replate if required.

Good luck with your project.

best, andy

THERE'S MORE TO OPTICS THAN MEETS THE EYE

[David Karp]

Yes, the idea of stripping the black off the camera was a moment of temporary insanity. I decided not to do that before posting this. I was thinking about touching it up, maybe even buffing the nickel off of the hardware, etc. Now I have decided to leave the hardware alone too.

According to http://www.fiberq.com/cam/seneca/sennew.htm, the finish is lacquer. I have been researching the possibility of touching up the camera here and there, but I think it does not need it. The more I look at it, the more I like it looking old. I had this moment of craziness where I was going to try to make it look like a new Seneca. After I work with it a bit there might be a few touch up spots. In addition, I think I will try some black spray lacquer for the outside of the lensboards I make.

[David Karp]

I spoke to Western Bellows. Very helpful. It will probably be around $175 - $200 for a new bellows from there.

It rained yesterday, and there were some awesome clouds. I took the Seneca out and popped my 210mm Caltar II-N on it. I just love the Full Plate size. It was fun to play with the camera, and 210mm is a nice focal length on it. Thanks again Jim!

[Scott Sharp]

Hi David,

I was just given the 5 x 7 version of the same Improved Senca View. I'm also missing the rear extension rail as well as a lensboard. Otherwise the main body of the camera was in great shape underneath the years of grime. I cleaned it then went over the nickel hardware and lacquered surfaces with Renaissance Wax. Give that a try before compromising the original black lacquer finish. Surprisingly lightweight camera that folds down to a manageable size.

[Frank R]

Scott: Nice to hear you finally found your 5x7 Seneca. Would it have killed you to reply to my email?

[Frank R]

Scott: Nice to hear you finally found your 5x7 Seneca. Would it have killed you to reply to my email?

My bad. Wrong Scott wanting a 5x7 Improved Seneca View camera (what are the odds!)

Sorry Scott, enjoy your camera.

[Scott --]

Scott: Nice to hear you finally found your 5x7 Seneca. Would it have killed you to reply to my email?

Ouch...

Sorry, Frank, I (1) haven't (yet) made a decision on a 5x7 (still waiting to hear from one other person...), and (2) have emailed you, several times. Apparently I'm having trouble with my outgoing email; Randy H hasn't been getting my emails, either.

I'll forward my replies from a Yahoo account, which seems to be working.

[Scott Davis]

Thinking of the lovely nickel-plated hardware on the Senecas, anyone know where I can get some replacement stuff? I've got a Seneca full-plate camera on the way to me, and it is missing the locking hardware to hold the lensboard in place. I'll be happy to get by with some brass and wood bits for now, but it would be nice to have it look the part.

[Ole Tjugen]

I'm still not certain whether "Question for Old Camera Restorers" is to be understood as "Question for restorers of old cameras" or "Question for old restorers of cameras"... :p

[David Karp]

I'm still not certain whether "Question for Old Camera Restorers" is to be understood as "Question for restorers of old cameras" or "Question for old restorers of cameras"... :p

I thought the same thing after I saw what I posted. Then I decided that in many cases, it is probably both! :)

[Scott --]

Thinking of the lovely nickel-plated hardware on the Senecas, anyone know where I can get some replacement stuff? I've got a Seneca full-plate camera on the way to me, and it is missing the locking hardware to hold the lensboard in place. I'll be happy to get by with some brass and wood bits for now, but it would be nice to have it look the part.

I'm thinking along these lines (http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=83082).

Scott, the interminable DIY'er

[Paul Metcalf]

Some of the screws are rusted. Any suggestions for sourcing appropriate replacements? I might just forget about this, but maybe?

Don't forget about it, there is a good solution. Micro Fasteners (http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/standard.cfm?Category=TWS&SubCategory=RWB) carries small slotted round head brass wood screws down to size #0 and 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 inch in length. They come is batches of 100 screws and run less than $4 per batch. Next, pickup an electroless nickel plating kit from Caswell Plating (http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/electroless.htm). Very easy to use with good instructions to nickel plate the screws. A two-liter kit (plenty to do a bunch of screws as well as some other nickel parts that need recoating) runs around $80. I did this to two turn of the century (previous one, not the latest) Conely's, an 8x10 and a 5x7. The 5x7 needed to be pretty much completely stripped and a lot of the nickel plated parts recoated (and most screws replaced). But the bellows was in reasonable shape. The 8x10 only needed the bellows replaced (from England). Good luck.