Shen Hao 8X10

[Dave_B]

Folks:
My new Shen Hao 8x10 from Badger Graphic is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. If people are interested, I will post some pictures of it here. I've searched the forum and not found a lot on this camera and some might find the pictures of interest.
Cheers,
Dave B.

[Walter Calahan]

Congratulations. I've seen their 4x5, so it'd be fun to see in pictures its big brother.

[Jack Flesher]

I'm curious what you think of it -- the 8x10 Badger sells is a copy of the Phillips design and not your typical folder.

[Ted Harris]

I played with one last year and, to me it was largely like a Phillips Compact II with a couple of bows toward Keith Canham as well. biggest difference ... it is heavy.

[Dave_B]

I'll post some pictures of the camera here tomorrow. I have the highest regard for Mr. Phillips and his cameras and have had one on order for a while but the best case scenario is that it will take a LONG time to get one. The Shen Hao could either be the first 8x10 camera I get or the first and last, depending. Like a lot of folks here, I have been bitten by the larger camera bug and wanted to get one while one could still get 8x10 color film (Velvia) and I was young enough to lug it around the woods and mountains. I personally tend to find that the most interesting things to photograph are a long ways from the car.
Cheers,
Dave B.

[John Hoang]

Is the camera horizontal only? There is a discrepancy on Badger Graphic site. It says dimensions 39x24x12cm and Camera back in either vertical or horizontal orientation. It is not possible to put the back in vertical position with the camera height only 24cm (9.45"). Could it be 34cm instead?

I am also interested in knowing the real weight of the camera. It is not heavy for an 8x10 camera at 4.4kg (9.7 lbs) as advertized. Thanks. John

[Don Hutton]

The back can be removed and replaced in portrait orientation, so those numbers on the Badger site are clearly incorrect (there are some other obvious errors too - the camera does not have rear shift, and with that design, clearly cannot, yet there are figures on the Badger site showing amounts of rear shift possible). For the money, the camera looks like a great deal. I do however hope that the aluminium is anodized...

[Dave_B]

Well Folks, here are some pictures. Generally, I'm very happy with the camera. It is light (8 lbs, 10oz), well made and very solid. The wood is something like walnut although of a slightly different grain than I am used to. The fit and finish is first rate. The metal parts are nicely machined and all work smoothly and are well placed. The knobs have a nice rubber surface that makes them easy to grip. The focus knob is located under the center of the bed behind the camera so that you can focus while under the dark cloth. The front standard looks a lot like my Ebony. There is back tilt and swing but no back rise, fall or shift. The camera is smooth and easy to adjust but locks down solidly. IMHO, for the price, it was a good deal.
Cheers,
Dave B.

[Dave_B]

More pictures:

[Jack Flesher]

Looks pretty darn nice! How is the rigidity when near to fully extended?

[Dave_B]

With everything fully extended, you can move the top of the front and rear standard something like 1-2mms by applying a modest force with your hands. If you shake the bed, the standards are pretty rigid and do not seem to move relative to each other. Comparing 4x5 and 8x10 cameras is probably not a reasonable thing to do but fully extended, the Shen Hao feels qualitatively as solid as my Ebony (4x5) to me. One of the things not shown clearly in the photos is a nice set of tapped, metal insert screw holes on the front base so that one can add a support arm if one wishes. A better view of the tapped holes is shown below.
Cheers,
Dave B.

[John Hoang]

Congratulations and thanks for sharing, Dave. It sure looks beautiful. I am really surprised at the weight. The camera actual weight is usually heavier than advertised.

[Jan Pedersen]

Oh nooo. How can i possibly sleep now? :( I want one! Do have the 4x5 but this 8x10 is in a different leaque.
Thanks for posting those photos;)

[Jack Flesher]

One of the things not shown clearly in the photos is a nice set of tapped, metal insert screw holes on the front base so that one can add a support arm if one wishes. A better view of the tapped holes is shown below.
Cheers,
Dave B.

Not to be a smart-a$$ Dave, but you do know those threaded holes are not specifically for mounting front supports? They are actually the underside of the hole sets for mounting the front standarrd rearward when you use shorter lenses. You do not need to angle the the front standard as you did with rear base and forward axial tilts to get there, and instead, the screw that holds the front standard base is removed and the entire standard is re-positioned in the rear holes for shorter lenses. At least that's how it works on the Phillips and I assume the Shen...

Thanks for the feedback on rigiity -- it sounds plenty adequate! Also, Don asked about the finish on the aluminum -- is it clear anodaized or naked metal?

Thanks,

[Amund BLix Aaeng]

Not to be a smart-a$$ Dave, but you do know those threaded holes are not specifically for mounting front supports? They are actually the underside of the hole sets for mounting the front standarrd rearward when you use shorter lenses. You do not need to angle the the front standard as you did with rear base and forward axial tilts to get there, and instead, the screw that holds the front standard base is removed and the entire standard is re-positioned in the rear holes for shorter lenses. At least that's how it works on the Phillips and I assume the Shen...



Yep, that`s right, just like the 5x7 version, wich I have.

[archivue]

i had the oportunity to play with one of these...
rigidity ? more rigid than the metal canham... less rigid than the canham made of wood... just in between !
considering the fact that there's plenty of wind over here, i change my mind, and keep my norma... raising money for a phillips or an arca misura 8x10.
I don't see the point to make not perfect 8x10 slides (because of wind), when i can make perfect 4x5 (arca Fline Field 110-141)...

[Dave_B]

Not to be a smart-a$$ Dave, but you do know those threaded holes are not specifically for mounting front supports? They are actually the underside of the hole sets for mounting the front standarrd rearward when you use shorter lenses. You do not need to angle the the front standard as you did with rear base and forward axial tilts to get there, and instead, the screw that holds the front standard base is removed and the entire standard is re-positioned in the rear holes for shorter lenses. At least that's how it works on the Phillips and I assume the Shen...

Thanks for the feedback on rigiity -- it sounds plenty adequate! Also, Don asked about the finish on the aluminum -- is it clear anodaized or naked metal?

Thanks,


You were not being a smart-a$$. You told me something I did not know and thank you for that. I appreciate learning something new every day from this forum and today is no exception. I guess that this post points out the only knock on the camera that I have-no instruction manual and not much on the web.

The aluminum is clear anodaized. It has a smooth, clear matt finish. They look nice.
Cheers,
Dave B.

[Turner Reich]

That's a very nice camera, is the wood walnut or teak? How do you like the bellows?

[Dave_B]

Attached is a picture of the camera set up for short focal length lenses by using the mounting holes that let you move the front standard backwards.
Cheers,
Dave B.

[Dave_B]

That's a very nice camera, is the wood walnut or teak? How do you like the bellows?

The wood is not teak. It is something like walnut although it does not look exactly like the walnut I am used to seeing. It is a little lighter than what I am used to. It is nicely finished however and is as hard as walnut. Teak is generally pretty soft wood and not very strong. This stuff looks strong and tough.
The bellows is very nice. It is well folded and does not bind at short distances or at long extensions. At the longest extensions you will probably need to support it in the middle to keep it from sagging into the image on the screen. It is not leather, but feels like some kind of non-slippery fabric material. It seems as well made as the rest of the camera.
Cheers,
Dave B.

[Ralph Barker]

Dave - it looks like Luan Mahogany to me. Also, you may be thinking of something other than teak, which is usually pretty hard and extremely durable, but hell on cutting tools.

[archivue]

there's two version :
black wallnut and schneider !
http://www.shen-hao.com/E810.html

[Dave_B]

Dave - it looks like Luan Mahogany to me. Also, you may be thinking of something other than teak, which is usually pretty hard and extremely durable, but hell on cutting tools.

Ralph:
The teak I have worked with is used on boats as no-skid surfaces and for decoration and trim. It is used there because the high oil content lets it last well in marine environments. That wood seems soft to me, almost pulpy. You can dent it with a fingernail and wear it away if you are too vigorous with a heavy scrub brush. It is also good as a no-skid surface because it is not so hard that it is slippery when wet. I assume that there are many different kinds of teak and maybe the kind used on boats is of a different character than that used elsewhere. The boat teak is the only stuff I have worked with.
In any event, the stuff on the camera is pretty hard, a light brown, closer to a coffee color than the dark brown I normally associate with walnut. It has a relatively straight grain, not too fine in structure. Given that it was made in China, it is fair to assume that they did not use American walnut, which is very expensive stuff these days, even in the US. It does not look like anything I have ever seen but it does look nice.
Cheers,
Dave B.

[Michael Nagl]

Congratulations... should this be the answer? Shen Hao? Their reputation was not so good in the past - but this looks so good that one doesn`t even feel like making jokes about "woodiness schneider"...
Is a wide angle bellows available, too? Are these Technika lensboards?
thanks
Michael

[Dave_B]

Michael:
According to the Badger website there is a wide angle bellows available as well as the standard bellows athough I haven't ordered the WA one yet. The camera uses Sinar lens boards and comes with an adapter board that also lets one use Technika boards as well. Both types of boards work fine.
Cheers,
Dave B

[Turner Reich]

black walnut (Juglans nigra L.)

In China there are black walnut trees throughout the country. It looks a little different in color and grain from American Black Walnut.

[John Hoang]

Dave:
While we are at it, what is the actual size of the camera? Fogive my obsession about the weight and size, just to know how it would fit my backpack. Thanks.

[Amund BLix Aaeng]

Dave:
While we are at it, what is the actual size of the camera? Fogive my obsession about the weight and size, just to know how it would fit my backpack. Thanks.


According to Badger: 39X24X12cm(15.3x9.4x4.7inches) 4.4 kilo.

For backpacking, it`s hard to beat the Wehman, it`s only 9cm thick, and makes room for 4-5 8x10 film holders together with the camera in the large compartment of my f.64 backpack, and another 3-4 in the outside pocket.

[John Hoang]

According to Badger: 39X24X12cm(15.3x9.4x4.7inches) 4.4 kilo.

Thanks Amund, but that dimension is wrong. The back can't be in portrait orientation if one side is only 24cm as mentioned in Don's and my previous posts.

[Amund BLix Aaeng]

Thanks Amund, but that dimension is wrong. The back can't be in portrait orientation if one side is only 24cm as mentioned in Don's and my previous posts.


Ah, I did copy and paste from Badger... As my FCL-57 is one centimeter larger than the HZX-57 I guess the same goes for the FCL-810, I guess it`s around 32x32x12.

[Dave_B]

The measured dimensions are 32.3cm by 35.5cm by 11.4cm. These dimensions are measured to the outer limits of the knobs, screws, etc. The longest dimension is associated with the two large knobs on the rear standard that locks it into place. Each of these knobs extend ~ one and a half cm from the side of the camera. The measured weight (without a lens board) is eight pounds, 10 ounces. The very nice aluminum case that you can get with the camera weighs 6 pounds, 3 ounces. Attached is a photo of what it looks like folded up.
Cheers,
Dave B.

[Amund BLix Aaeng]

My guess was off by 0.3cm :o lol.

Lovely camera isn`t , I was out using my 5x7-version today, always a pleasure.
Love the focusing.

[John Hoang]

Thanks, Dave. There might be another one finding its home soon.

[Dave_B]

John:
I am very happy with the camera. I spent the weekend in a local park taking pictures and it is a joy to use. For the price, it is a bargain. If someone stole it, I would buy another one.
Cheers,
Dave B.

[Songyun]

Thanks for sharing. By the way, at this price how is this compared to Canham? Canham seems lighter, has longer bellow, of course about 700$ more.

[Michael Nagl]

Hi Dave,
iin this thread http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=19657&page=6 the owner of the 5x7 version of your camera writes that his camera has only 22mm of front rise, not the 60mm advertised ---- how´s that with your one? 80mm all right? And are you still happy with it?
Greetings
Michael

[Michael Nagl]

oh, and yet another question... when using a 240mm lens, do I have to unscrew/ remount the front standard erery time I fold up the camera? And: Does it fold up with a small lens (e.g. the 240 G-Claron) mounted?
Thanks
M

[Dave_B]

Michael:
The front rise is roughly 95mm plus or minus a mm or so. Drop is ~40mm. The way you fold the camera is by rotating the frame on the front standard to lay flat. You do not need to unscrew it. It does not look like there is any room for a lens to be mounted when folded. The front standard lays flat on the camera base and there is no hole in the base for a lens to fit into as is true for the Toyo 45CF for example. You will need to remove the lens before folding the camera up.
Cheers,
Dave B.

[Jack Flesher]

Dave: Another note offered FWIW only as I see a small folding error in the imge above. I know Shen's don't come with instructions, but to fold, you should lock front axis tilt, raise the front standard until the pins can slip out the rear of the supports. Then you fold the front standard back on itself as you fold the main support rearward on the base. The little pins that come out to allow the board to flip should slide back into the top of the frame. If you don't do it that way, the front standard can rest fully face down on the bed and the relese levers for the board and board adapter will scratch it up pretty quickly.

FWIW only,

[chrisjonesinlondon]

Hi Dave,

May I ask how wide the lens is you have in these photos, and whether the camera bed is in view when you are using it?

Cheers
Chris

[Dave_B]

Chris:
The lens in the pictures is a Nikkor 450M. The photo shown with that lens on the camera, racked up close to the GG is obviously a non-physical situation for imaging. The shortest lens that I have that covers the format is the Nikkor 120SW. There are four holes in the base for the front standard to attach to. With the standard in the hole closest to the GG, when focused at infinity and everything square and set at neutral, the 120SW just misses seeing the base. If you use some fall in that situation (~1cm) , you will see the base. If you move the front standard to the next hole away from the GG, you can still just focus at infinity but the base is then comfortably outside of the field of view. In this configuration, you could use some fall, probably as much as this lens allows for this format.
Cheers,
Dave B.

p.s. Jack, thanks for the heads up. It works just as you described.

[Nick_3536]

Dave can I ask you a question about the front standard? How big is the opening behind the lensboard? On my 5x7 the opening isn't big enough to take a Sinar type recessed board. Is the area behind the lensboard also restricted in the 8x10 FCL?

Thanks

[ifer]

i am jealous.
the thing is, living in malaysia, it is hard enough to find a pack of 4x5 film, let alone 8x10.

[Dave_B]

With the adapter board removed, the opening is quite wide. The Sinar boards themselves are ~14cmx14cm. Behind the opening is a small lip ~7.5 mm wide to hold the board. The clear opening all the way back into the bellows is a square hole ~12.5cmx12.5cm (14cm-2x0.75cm). The adapter board they give you for free to let you use Linhof boards has a clear circle about 8.5cm in diameter.
Good luck,
Dave B.

[Jack Flesher]

Nick: Based on Dave's review and detailed images -- thanks Dave! -- I bought one of these for myself. If you look at the images, you can see the main camera is already set up to take standard Sinar boards, but Shen includes a Sinar to Tech reducer board. Remove that and recessed Sinar boards should fit no problem as it is just a big square hole behind that adapter.

A simple follow up note on the camera itself with a few things worth mentioning. Mine arrived with some issues. My immediate thought was to return it to Jeff at Badger for a replacement, but then I took a second tocarefully measure it and discovered mine was dead-true square, flat and level when zeroed -- so I thought I would be wise to deal with the relatively minor issues on my own ;)

1) The light-trap on the filmback arrived partially un-glued. It had been glued, but the glue didn't stick. I didn't notice it until after about a dozen frames and was worried about light leaks. Anyway, I glued it up with wood glue and noticed that along the trap strips, there were several spots where they didn't make full contact with the back and could leak. So I sealed the edges all up with a bead of wood glue, inside and out, then painted it all flat black after it dried. At any rate, it is light-tight now and none of my original frames showed any signs of leaking anyway.

2) Next, there is a small set-screw on the focus knob that adjusts friction on the lead-screw so focus won't shift once set. My set scew was not long enough to adjust it tight enough to prevent the focus from shifting when stretched out for my 600. For 20 cents I got a longer regular metric allen screw form the hardware store and solved this problem.

3) Finally, the camera is short on readily visible levels and the ones included do not offer much in the way of fine precision anyway. I added a dual-bubble level at the rear in a conveniently vacant space next to the focus knob. This allows easy confirmation of bed level and since the camera zero's properly it has solved this issue for me.

When all is said and done, if you're willing to fiddle with it a bit, I think this may be the ultimate 8x10 field camera: It's relatively inexpensive, rock-solid rigid even at full extension, focuses a 120 through 600 on flat boards (may do a 90 but have not confirmed that, but my Fuji 600 will focus to about 15 feet), it's Ebony-copy fornt standard offers generous and familiar movments up front, yet the Phillips-copy rear allows for exceptional rigidity and light-weight; mine tips the scale at 9 pounds total with the tech adapter board in place and with a 6" Wimberley dovetail plate mounted to the bottom.

Net, net, I am really happy with this camera -- thanks again Dave!

Cheers,

[Nick_3536]

Sounds like it would just fit. The Sinar type recessed board I picked up has a 12cm circular recess.

Can I ask one more question? What are the movements on the back? I've gotten a headache looking at the different websites. The factory one claims only tilt and swing. Some of the others claim more.

[Nick_3536]

Nick: Based on Dave's review and detailed images -- thanks Dave! -- I bought one of these for myself. If you look at the images, you can see the main camera is already set up to take standard Sinar boards, but Shen includes a Sinar to Tech reducer board. Remove that and recessed Sinar boards should fit no problem as it is just a big square hole behind that adapter.
,

My 5x7 HZX57-IIAT also takes flat Sinar boards. The problem is the opening behind the lens board isn't big enough for a recessed Sinar type board. Kind of irritating. The big Sinar board I picked up would allow my fingers easier access then a recessed Linhof type board. OTOH my 5x7 can actually focus a 75mm with a flat board. Problem is you can't use any movements like that. Everything is squeezed together so tightly.

Has anybody bought the wide angle bellows or the 4x10 back?

I'm mostly worried about the recessed board for when I use the 4x10 or the 6x17 rollfilm back. My widest 8x10 lens is a 120mm Nikon and it sounds like that works just fine.

[Gordon Moat]

Good morning Jack Flesher,

Do you have any images of your double bubble level in place? I have been considering adding one to my Shen-Hao HZX45A-II. Also, where did you source the level? Thanks!

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

[Jack Flesher]

My 5x7 HZX57-IIAT also takes flat Sinar boards. The problem is the opening behind the lens board isn't big enough for a recessed Sinar type board.


Here you go -- roughly 4.75 inches square -- big enough? >>

http://jack.cameraphile.org/albums/album08/shen_front.jpg

[Nick_3536]

Here you go -- roughly 4.75 inches square -- big enough? >>



Thats a good question :confused: I think it might just squeeze in. It's not much less then that. Thanks. I think it's a question of trying and seeing now.

[Jack Flesher]

Good morning Jack Flesher,

Do you have any images of your double bubble level in place? I have been considering adding one to my Shen-Hao HZX45A-II. Also, where did you source the level? Thanks!



Hi Gordon:

I modified a typical flash-shoe style double level because I already owned it and it appeared a convenient size and orientation. I first cut off the flash shoe mounts with a hacksaw, then carefully sanded the side and base smooth, finishing with 600 grit. I then further sanded the base mounting area with 600 grit on a flat surface to make it sit perfectly level. (FTR, this was not as hard as it sounded and took only a few minutes of tweaking to get it perfect. You can check a level for level by rotating it 180 degrees and making sure you get an identical reading on both axis. I sanded with added pressure on the high corner or side until I got it dialed in. A few strokes at a time and about a dozen checks was all it took.)

Note two other things in the image below. First you can see the new friction screw behind the focus knob at about 1 o'clock position. Second, you might be curious to why I glued a small nylon screw head in the top hole in the focus knob. An interesting thing about this focus knob... One full turn moves the bed 12mm. As such it's a typical clock-face reference and I can easily determine differences in extension in 1mm increments, which can be useful in making DOF calculations. I mounted the screw so I can tell roughly how much extension difference between near and far by feel or a quick look at the wheel without the need to measure directly.

http://jack.cameraphile.org/albums/album08/shen_level.jpg

Cheers,

[Gordon Moat]

Thanks Jack. Too simple after seeing that, though the bottom edge of the HZX45A-II is a little different.

I have been looking at the focus arrangement on the 8x10, and it is one aspect that is much nicer than on the Shen-Hao 4x5. I know a place that has some interesting parts, and might be able to make a rear focus modification to my 4x5. In your image, it seems like a simple installation. However, getting it on the camera might not be that simple. Thanks for sharing the close-up images.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

[chrisjonesinlondon]

Thanks for your comments on the wide angle view Dave. It should now be obvious that I am new to 8x10!!

One big favour to ask: do you know of (or have) an image of the camera properly folded, as per Jack's recommendation? I've ordered one from Badger's... a bit nervous that it doesn't come with a manual.

Many thanks for all the gracious efforts put into the forum!

Best,
Chris

[Amund BLix Aaeng]

Thanks for your comments on the wide angle view Dave. It should now be obvious that I am new to 8x10!!

One big favour to ask: do you know of (or have) an image of the camera properly folded, as per Jack's recommendation? I've ordered one from Badger's... a bit nervous that it doesn't come with a manual.

Many thanks for all the gracious efforts put into the forum!

Best,
Chris

Check out my thread about the FCL-57 for some pictures here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=19657) It`s pretty much identical to the 8x10.

[Dave_B]

Chris:
Attached are three images. The first is the wrong way to do it. The second is the correct way to do it. The final image is the Bogen 3252 magic arm which works well to hold the front standard steady when the camera is extended. The magic arm is pretty cheap-~$55 at B&H. Good luck.
Dave B.

[chrisjonesinlondon]

Dave,

Thanks a million. If only global politics were as meritocratic as this forum!!

Should have my SH810 set up with a G Claron in a couple of weeks.

Best
Chris

[neil poulsen]

I agree. Very nice. How much rise can one achieve without the bellows intruding on the image? Or, does it intrude at all?

[Dave_B]

The front rise is 95mm or so. It does not look to me like it intrudes into the light path. The entire bellows seems to rise up and stay clear of the image.
Cheers,
Dave B.

[Nick_3536]

Could you guys comment on the ground glass? How bright is it?

Has anybody tried a shorter lens then the 120mmm mentioned in the thread?

How about the reducing backs? Can anybody comment on the 5x7 back? Is it a spring back or does it have the sliders for a rollfilm holder?

[Jack Flesher]

IMO the stock GG is very good and quite usable as-is -- though it is a plain, gridded GG.

FWIW, I have fabricated a Lexan GG for lighter weight and break-proofness (if that's a word!) for when back-packng, but it isn't as pleasant to use as the stock GG. However it does work, and because of not needing a GG protector, the Lexan GG saves about 3/4 pound total.

Cheers,

[Nick_3536]

Thanks Jack.

Seems nobody has bought a reducing back?

[Nick_3536]

My money is flying to China at the moment. With luck it won't take too long for the turn around.

[Nick_3536]

Okay a few things.

The sinar type recessed board I got with the camera sort of fits. You need to back off the lower lensboard retaining bar to slip it in. Then tighten. Be careful to not lose the screws. OTOH it's not needed very much. Still annoying.

It sure feels light to the hand.

I haven't had a chance to figure out how to remove the 5x7 graflok panel to insert the roll film holder.

Shipping from the factory was very quick. FedEx the big hold up.

[Nick_3536]

I haven't had much time but wanted to add a couple of things.

With the bag bellows and the front standard moved to the rear position the distance from the ground glass to the lens board is less then 70mm :eek: I didn't measure too carefully because I doubt anybody will be buying me a 65mm lens that covers 8x10 :D

With the normal bellows and no lensboard but including the Sinar reducing board mine weighed in at 3.91kg. That's 500 grams less then the factory claims :confused:


I like the case that came with it better then the case that came with my 5x7. It's still too small to hold EVERYTHING. But it's big enough to hold the camera and either one reducing back or the bag bellows.

I couldn't fold it with the bag bellows on. :confused: Swapping bellows takes a bit of patiences. My 5x7 is quicker and I can do it almost blind folded. With the FCL I almost need to take a deep breath . It's not hard or complicated but not the sort of thing I'd want to do with a stop watch on me.

[Turner Reich]

Can anyone tell me what the address for contacting the factory and ordering is?

[Amund BLix Aaeng]

Can anyone tell me what the address for contacting the factory and ordering is?


zhangfmli@vip.sina.com

[ic-racer]

I'm bumping this thread, as I have one of these cameras on its way from Badger. I'll post pictures when it gets here.

[ic-racer]

Its here!
Pictures to follow. Right off the bat I am glad to have seen the correct way to fold the camera.

I notice there are now only 3, instead of 4 holes for the front standard.
Fit and finish are much better than I expected. I thought it was going to be a 'cheap Chinese camera' for beating around in the field. I was wrong it is a fantastic, well crafted machine. Very good looking and lighter than I was anticipating. No quality control issues.
Nice groundglass with a silk screened grid.

[scott_6029]

FWIW, I own (fcl 8x10), one and really like it...had other 8x10's...just depends on your style of shooting...I think it is one of the better ones out there for sure. Each has its pros and cons, but i think for the money this is clearly one of the best choices. I carry it around in an arca discovery bag...I think the overall set up of this camera is light and has nice movements.

[ic-racer]

It came with a "0" lensboard so I enlarged this to a "3" and got my 300mm lens on there. I put the hole low in the board to try and get the optical axis near the front tilt axis. All looks and works excellent. Hope to go shooting tomorrow.

[ic-racer]

Here it is.

[ic-racer]

This was interesting, I found this picture of what looks like a Shen Hao 810 on the internet. It looks a little more primitive, perhaps a prototype or earlier version?

[Rick Olson]

I have their first generation 5 x 7 camera and it has been superb. Great quality!! Enjoy it!

Rick

[ic-racer]

A re-visit to the Chamonix site.

I was seriously trying to scrape together an extra $1000 to get the Chamonix and had spent a lot of time drooling over this picture on their site.

However, now I have the Shen Hao, I think in a side-by-side comparison the two cameras are very close. For example, the front standard on the Shen Hao looks like it is designed better. It has the axial control knobs that are very handy and the base tilt allows the camera to fold up very rapidly without unscrewing the front standard bolt. Of course this is at a little weight penalty.

On the Chamonix I don't see any fancy little locking pins near the rear tilt knobs. The Shen Hao has two sliding pins that will make the back stop right at 90 degrees.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/ic-racer/810c11.jpg

[eddie]

On the Chamonix I don't see any fancy little locking pins near the rear tilt knobs.



it has them.

[ic-racer]

it has them.

Ok, thanks. Do you have the Chamonix? How about the bellows holder? Is it useful or does it get in the way when folding?

[ic-racer]

Another little detail I just noticed. Compared to Dave B's camera shown at the beginning of this thread, mine has two focus lock knobs with a little "SH" insert on the knobs.

[David Luttmann]

Congrats. Makes my Shen Hao 4x5 look like a toddler in comparison.

[ic-racer]

Here is a somewhat rare shot of a Phillips Compact II for comparison to the Shan Hao.

BTW this pictures is from e2aa's listing in the FS section which is still unsold at somewhat of a bargain asking price. I'll remove the picture if it infringes on anything.

[sanking]

Here is a somewhat rare shot of a Phillips Compact II for comparison to the Shan Hao.

BTW this pictures is from e2aa's listing in the FS section which is still unsold at somewhat of a bargain asking price. I'll remove the picture if it infringes on anything.

The influence of Dick Phillips on current camera makers is pretty amazing. Virtually all of the current models in the Chamonix and Shen Hao lines are to some extent derivatives of the basic Phillips design, which is elegant in its simplicity.

Sandy King

[ic-racer]

Yes, I put his design right it up there with the "Stradavarius" style violin, the "Torres" style classical guitar, the Fender Stratocaster and the Dumble Amplifier.

[slungshot]

Hey, guys. Shenhao has posted a new 617. Care to comment?

Stephen

[ic-racer]

Badger Graphics just listed the Shen Hao TFC810A non-folding wide-angle 8x10 camera. Same price as the FCL810-A

[Lachlan 717]

Hey, guys. Shenhao has posted a new 617. Care to comment?

Stephen

Lots of thoughts on this at Yahoo's 6x17 forum...

Lachlan.

[Nick_3536]

Badger Graphics just listed the Shen Hao TFC810A non-folding wide-angle 8x10 camera. Same price as the FCL810-A

How wide does it go? The FCL already goes wider then any 8x10 lens. I guess the new one sets up quicker. :confused:

[Gem Singer]

Badger lists the specs. for the TFC810A. Minimum extension is 85mm. Probably with the wide angle bellows.

The shortest lens that I own that will cover 8X10 is the Nikkor f8 120SW. It barely covers 8X10.

By closing down and carefully centering the lens, I can avoid vignetting.

[Nick_3536]

The FCL with the bag bellows goes wider IIRC. With the Sinar recessed board I think it less then 60mm ground glass to back of lensboard.

[Gem Singer]

Nick,

It would definitely be possible to move the lens closer to the ground glass using a bag bellows and a recessed lens board.

If I use a bag bellows along with a combination of base and axis tilt on the front standard of my 8X10 Canham Traditional, I can touch the the ground glass with the rear of the lens.

However, it would still be difficult to find a lens shorter than 110- 120mm that will cover the 8x10 format without vignetting.

So why would you want to go wider?

[Nick_3536]

I don't. I'm curious what the point of the wide angle version of the camera is. The current camera goes just as wide if not wider. So what's gained from the wide angled model?

[Gem Singer]

The TFC810A is designed to be used mainly for architectural photography. It's non-folding design makes for faster set ups and more accurate parallelism between the front and rear standards.

Over one and a half pounds lighter than the folding model.

140mm of front rise and fall compared to the 125mm on the folding model.

It seems like Shen Hao, in China is attempting to compete head-to-head with Ebony, in Japan.

Having owned an used cameras from both manufactures, I believe that Ebony definitely wins on quality, but Shen Hao makes great cameras for the price.

[Nick_3536]

It's only four pounds? I think I have a lens that heavy -)

I thought Shen had mostly stopped making it's larger Ebony style cameras?

[Miguel Curbelo]

I'm curious what the point of the wide angle version of the camera is. The current camera goes just as wide if not wider. So what's gained from the wide angled model?
The pictures that ic-racer posted are actually shots of my camera. I asked Mr ZhangFuming to build me a camera loosely based on my Ebony SW45. What was I looking for? A non-folding light-weight but rigid 8x10 camera with which I would be able to shoot urban landscapes with a minimum of fuss and as fast as possible (large format cameras inevitably attract attention whenever you set them up in a street)and yet versatile enough to practically do anything but extreme macros (I found the Ebony SLW a bit limited).

My camera differs slightly from the model now offered, in that its bellows extension goes from 85 to 510mm, enabling me to use a 110mm XL at the short end and to focus a 450mm lens down to about 12 feet at its long end. It only weighs 3.4 Kg and it does not need unfolding or squaring before shooting.
As to its build, it's not an Ebony, but the difference is mostly tactile (yes, calfskin bellows are definitely nicer...) rather than functional.

[ic-racer]

Wow, so he put your 'deam' camera into regular production.

How do you carry it? Does it come together to a size similar to a folded 8x10 camera? Do you have to worry about the front standard being bent backwards when it is being transported?

[Lachlan 717]

Wow, so he put your 'deam' camera into regular production?

In a recent email, Mr Zhang said that he's able to custom make me a 8x10 that will accept Sinar bellows and lens boards (allowing me to use a Sinar Auto shutter with barrel lenses). Given the difficulty in getting 8x10 film in Oz, I'm tempted to ask if he can build it in 4x5...

So, if you do have a "dream" camera/design/function, ping him an email; you might get lucky!!

Lachlan.

[ic-racer]

Anyone have the bag bellows (wide angle bellows) for the Shen Hao 8x10? I'm thinking of getting one.