Sinar F1 Lasted 1 Day then Broke!!

[scrichton]

Well I recieved my Sinar F1 on Friday, Mounted the super angulon on it took 4 sheets. Then proceeded to carry the box around, but never found anything else to take a photo of.

Then today my nice £2 dallmeyer f2.9 arrived and the rest of the bits. So cutting a long story short as I removed the F1 from the carry case to test fit the dallmeyer I knocked released the front standard, started pushing it back. Then the rail clamp snapped. What a POS. Swedish engineering comprimised by a very badly designed bit of plastic.

So I am wondering if anyone had ever done a successful repair on one of these or should i start looking for a new standard, or a big bin to throw the camera in :-D


Steven

[David A. Goldfarb]

Overtightening the front standard clamp is a very common issue with the Sinar F and F1. The F2 front clamp is a better design. It's probably cheapest and easiest just to find another front standard second hand. They're quite commonly available used.

[Scott Davis]

Swiss engineering. Try some good 2-part epoxy first as a fix. If that doesn't work, look for a replacement part on ePay.

[Rob_5419]

That's just awful. Never heard of anyone breaking their's on the first day, let alone the first 2 decades of owning one.

Is it the rail clamp (the plastic insert which the standards glide on) or the actual front standard which snapped? If you can't find the replacement part you need, www.mrcad.co.uk stock just about every bit of Sinar kit you might ever need however most likely, there must be some other left-or-right-handed numpty who's snapped the opposite side to you with a spare part to go.

Really sorry to hear this on your maiden voyage with the Sinar ;(

[scrichton]

Ok well 2 part epoxy worked... Although if it doesn't hold I'm going for a bolt through on threaded rod then epoxed and screwed into the body. The Clamp itself holds very little I have found.

My next problem is though... not enough length on my rail for the 8inch Dallmeyer. ARGHHH . It's kinda been one of those days.

So next thing is make a better designed rail clamp and get a rail extension. then a packard. So any packards with a 3 inch + opening going begging let me know :-)

[Rob_5419]

The rail clamp works just fine. Have you seen Christophe's post on the 16x20" rear custom built standard? If it can hold that....

A standard Sinar rail will be useable for a standard lens (150mm - 210mm). Thereafter, you need an extension or two.

Good luck with the Packard. Why not just a Sinar Autoshutter behind the front standard?

[David A. Goldfarb]

Christophe's camera is a Sinar X with P2 standard bearers--much sturdier than the F/F1 front standard bearer.

[Rob_5419]

Yes...I just noticed on reading the re-post.

Although the F/F1 front standard isn't as sturdy as the F2/P series/X, I'm not sure it's as awful as some of the comments portray. I guess a used F/F1 has seen its better decade sof years, and a lot of new folk coming into a secondhand Sinar are expecting (or hoping) that it won't have seen wear and abuse....

[scrichton]

The clamp can be made as lightly and stonger overall by just a fixed replication of the rear standard block at the bottom. Should let me mis-handle it without breaking. Seeing especially as this is a field use camera. ( stupidly I made the assumption that the Sinar brand was a bit more robust than this.)

I would love a sinar autoshutter, but my money has since run out if I am being 100% honest. Since the summer I have gone back to film and this has consisted of a pretty comprehensive Nikon Kit, Full Darkroom/Digital setup with Flash. Then add hasselblad kit and a new bessa R3a kit plus T3's and Kiev's and so on. Plus a MPP field camera. Plus to cap it all off a properly useful scanner. This being said a couple of TV pilots and a full financial consulting database application have been borne of this. (i Like work :-D) Now the drip ends.

So I have a thornton pickard waiting to be paid for on monday when my work pay comes in.

As all can see here an autoshutter is a distict possibility when work re-commences, seeing as photography is just an expensive hobby for me a young pup.

[Rob_5419]

I would love a sinar autoshutter, but my money has since run out if I am being 100% honest. Since the summer I have gone back to film and this has consisted of a pretty comprehensive Nikon Kit, Full Darkroom/Digital setup with Flash. Then add hasselblad kit and a new bessa R3a kit plus T3's and Kiev's and so on. Plus a MPP field camera. Plus to cap it all off a properly useful scanner. This being said a couple of TV pilots and a full financial consulting database application have been borne of this. (i Like work :-D) Now the drip ends.

Wot no Leica? :rolleyes:

Autoshutters were running around 3x the price you paid for that Pickard shutter a few months ago. The disadvantage with the Thornton Pickard is that it tends to go as slow as 1/15th only, which I find way too fast. If your lens doesn't fit the pre-drilled aperture mount of the Pickard, then you're kind of sunk. Also, it doesn't mount flush to lensboard without a raised platform due to its rear-protruding dials.

As you have a Sinar (why not an F2 if you were going to use it for the field? It's front standard clamp is on a par with the rear), the autoshutter makes the best of every other barrel lens that you could imagine mounting. .

[scrichton]

Leica = illegal operation to remove kidney to fund :-D

I paid £10 for the thornton so if I can find an autoshutter and release at £30 ($60ish us) I'd be amazed. also the dallmeyer is f2.9 (£2 / $4 )will only ever get shot wide open probably as I have similar focal length lenses that have compurs in them. So cheap and nasty

On the F2 .. once again money was running low and the patchy information I could get didn't really seem like the F1's are as fragile as they are. People said they were not quite as good, but I didn't expect as fragile as sliding the standard along the rail fragile!! The F1's main purchase was allowing me to use a 90mm Super Angulon 5.6 for an architectural book I am the photographer for as my MPP rear rails fell off the runners focussing it.


So far though the epoxy is fine on the standard after a good cure in my film dryer. Araldite must hold so many things together in this world. Plus I have located bag bellows and a nice 12inch extension rail. Hopefully that will see me good and I can shoot the shoebox full of ERA sheet film that arrived today over the summertime.

Steven

http://zuikomedia.com

[Rob_5419]

Leica = illegal operation to remove kidney to fund :-D

Lol! And you have a Hasselblad requiring a triple bank account bypass??

Yes - I saw that auction for the £10 Thornton. Just wasn't sure it was working or not and didn't want to add another piece of wooden relic to my collection of er, wooden relics. Sinar autoshutters vary in price - depends how many internet buddies you end up bidding against. Patience.

Era sheetfilm...Shantou Era??? From China? In the UK?

[Frank Petronio]

Buy a F2 body and assemble the camera you want by combining parts... then sell the left over parts on eBay and recoup your investment. Amazingly, people will pay top dollar for broken parts if you use an honest description and clear photos.

[scrichton]

Era sheetfilm...Shantou Era??? From China? In the UK?

Ebay £30ish pounds for 250 sheets delivered from australia 1 week on postage :D Now I can stop using plus-x that is 20 years old.

The shutter seems fine. No real problems so far. Just too small :( I mis-calculated the aperture of the lens so it gives an effective f3.5 fstop. But still fast enough.

Frank. I just need the up-front collateral and I would do that in a second. As I said though out of cash just now. With an MOT on my car looming and Tax plus insurance. Photography is taking a backseat on the money aspect. I stupidly bought an old porsche (cheaper to buy than the smallest cheapest granny wagon on the market) and parts are not cheap on suspension. So any UK people with a mint volvo 240 estate wanting a swap for a 924 porsche soon to have a years ticket ....

[JW Dewdney]

what part of it broke? I have a rail clamp base if you need that I'd let you have for dirt.

[David A. Goldfarb]

The clamp shouldn't break just from sliding it along the rail. It breaks because people overtighten the clamp (which is easy enough to avoid if one doesn't handle it like a gorilla). If it broke from sliding on the rail, I'd suspect that it had previously been overtightened and cracked, so it was an accident waiting to happen.

[Brian Ellis]

Bummer. Reminds me of the time I travelled from Florida to Moab. Hit Arches late in the afternoon my first day. Made one picture with my Pentax 67 and on the second one the film advance lever broke.

[JW Dewdney]

My pan-tilt head exploded in half one day. Strange, that! Actually - when I got home from a job and pulled the tripod & head out of the bag - it had cracked in half through the yoke - I assume my assistant wasn't being careful enough... but who knows. Maybe it got a weird knock while in the truck.

[scrichton]

Well a night of epoxy didn't work so I have PM'd JW for the clamp and have resigned myself to laying the camera up for a while. As extension wise I am short and without a front standard that I can trust I really rather not risk the lens meeting the dirt.

I have found however people have been screwing machined plates on, so next stop will be the machine shop round the corner, however they are dear to say the least so any more than £50 is the cost of a standard I have sourced.

With a bit of searching around I also stumbled upon people using 2 rear standards, so I'm thinking of a second rear standard as a solution. I'm sure I can live with controls on both sides. As it may be a bit easier. Any thoughts from people would be appreciated.

[Armin Seeholzer]

Hi
My F1 serves me since 5 Years with not any problem, but I do not use much power for fixing the front standart!
Don't use it like a hammer its a camera, Armin ;--))

[Rob_5419]

Nuts. That's bad luck. Guess the F/F1 should come with a warning that it is a precision optical bench, and should not be handled like a monkey wrench.

Nothing springs to mind when I think about objections to using two rear standards, apart from the positioning of the locks and levers which might require turning the front standard backwards in order to activate the locks and levers.

I'd be surprised if you couldn't find a cheap replacement standard from an F2 or something.

[scrichton]

Next camera will be made out of pig iron and bricks I think. However knowing my luck it will be the same iron Fiat purchased from russia :D

In all seriousness though, Sinar has a reputation for engineering and excellence in prescision items. So why not make the clamp symmetrical. It would work in exactly the same way and be stronger instantly. This flaw is almost like it has been suripticiously engineered to encourage the purchase of higher end kit, or they were having a really off day on the front clamp project? For now though well wrapped lock-wire from a car should hold it enough, until the plate or the clamp is produced.

Hopefully it will sort itself out soon though.

[David A. Goldfarb]

The downsides to using two rear standards are that the knobs will be on the opposite side from the rear standard in back, and the swing scale will be facing the wrong way (under the bellows), but otherwise, it gives you a better clamp and micrometer focusing up front.

[scrichton]

I would only use the rear standard clamp. Then the whole thing would be ok.

[Brian Ellis]

"I stupidly bought an old porsche (cheaper to buy than the smallest cheapest granny wagon on the market) . . . . "

Ah, but wait until you see your service bills for the Porsche.

[scrichton]

Ah, but wait until you see your service bills for the Porsche.

Service bills?? what are these. I have two hands :D All seriousness though so far I have serviced it all including a bad head gasket blow when I first got it. I've built a fair few cars and engines now in my hobby time. Just the parts are the expense.

I think that's what is bugging me about the sinar. I know the fix. I even went into the machine shop today and sketched out the plate here and then ... just f'in money is the restrictor until payday :(

I hate money :( ... and sinar F1 front rail clamps ... he he

[Rob_5419]

You still have that spare right kidney.....

[scrichton]

... Unfortunately the Leica call although feint is still there ... :D

[scrichton]

Sinar F1 Fix Plate (http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/kiler/ebay07529.JPG) Anyone with an F1. I found this on ebay. Now my F1 can saved and all others in the world.

[Rob_5419]

That's very clever. So you're not just another pretty face then.

Very neat.

[Brian K]

Did you buy the F1 new or used? If it was used it may have been abused. But don't be too down on Sinar, maybe you got a rare lemon from them or maybe you just used too much force. I have used Sinars daily for a very long time and have never broken anything on them. Treat it well and you'll have many years of fine service from it.

If you can get an F2 front standard it would be wise to do so, it is far more durable than the F1 front standard. I don't even know why Sinar sells an F1 when an F2 does not cost much more.

[scrichton]

I bought it used. I don't really see ghe point in buying brand new right now unless it's a camera that is only available new. Like the Voigtlander I got.

I suspect though there was a bit of misuse there, as in all seriousness I was light with the camera as with most new items when there is a bit of uncertainty. Just unlucky in this time.

Although, now the standard clamp is in the machine shop getting the fix done and will be all happy by monday for back to shooting fun.

[Armin Seeholzer]

Hi Brian
"If you can get an F2 front standard it would be wise to do so, it is far more durable than the F1 front standard. I don't even know why Sinar sells an F1 when an F2 does not cost much more."
Here in Switzerland the F1 is almost half of the price of the F2, so is this a differnence for a newbie?
The F1 setup is much more usefull if a photographer has a P or P2.
Its much more easy to extend the P for macros or long lenses with the frontstandart of the F1!
You just put the F1 standard between the 2 P standards take a second bellows and you have an extention 2 times as fast as with a F2 standard, where you first has to remove the P standard and then get the F2 between the others, because the F2 standart can not get open like a F1 standard!
So all has its pros and cons and the whole Sinar system was developed by photogs for photogs!
Armin Seeholzer

[scrichton]

Hi Guys,

Just back from quite possibly the best machine shop I've ever been to. Took the picture I linked to and the standard yesterday at lunch. 10am this morning get a text message saying it was ready and all fixed up. He even faced the clamp to get a perfectly flat join on the surfaces.

All in all £35. Plus I discussed sliding digital SLR adapters etc ..no problem. I am over the moon.

Here's some nice pictures for you all to see my fixed clamp. Also a big thanks to JW for the offer of the rail clamp. Shame it was the wrong one otherwise I'd be tearing his arm off for it.

Steven

ps ( scuse the camera phone pics )

[scrichton]

Oh for people who give a damn :D they are here

www.bespoke-bits.co.uk (http://www.bespoke-bits.co.uk)

2 brothers, great guys to work with.

[Rob_5419]

Hey Stephen - are you going to paint it black now?

It's a very clever design. I'm impressed they found a way around it.

It should last you a fair time as well.

[scrichton]

Might just leave it shiny like a cheap sovreign ring on a teenage girl. :D

(all uk people should appreciate this )

in all honesty I'll leave it as is. Painting it or not the camera will be fine.

[Rob_5419]

Might just leave it shiny like a cheap sovreign ring on a teenage girl.

(all uk people should appreciate this )


NO!!! Not at my age they don't!


Bespoke Bits seem like a great firm. It's good to have another resource to machine bits for. I suppose they can probably machine down an Arca Swiss lensboard to fit standard Wista lensboards judging by their website. And they were very fast with your clamp as well...

[Brian K]

Hi Brian
"If you can get an F2 front standard it would be wise to do so, it is far more durable than the F1 front standard. I don't even know why Sinar sells an F1 when an F2 does not cost much more."
Here in Switzerland the F1 is almost half of the price of the F2, so is this a differnence for a newbie?
The F1 setup is much more usefull if a photographer has a P or P2.
Its much more easy to extend the P for macros or long lenses with the frontstandart of the F1!
You just put the F1 standard between the 2 P standards take a second bellows and you have an extention 2 times as fast as with a F2 standard, where you first has to remove the P standard and then get the F2 between the others, because the F2 standart can not get open like a F1 standard!
So all has its pros and cons and the whole Sinar system was developed by photogs for photogs!
Armin Seeholzer

Armin, thanks for the tip but I'm already well aware of the use of the multipurpose standards (F1 front standard) for use as bellows extenders and compendium shade holders. I have two P2, and two- F2, which is what I use in the field, and an F1 which I bought just to have more multiipurpose standards. The sinar system I feel is the best LF system there is, however I feel that the F1 is just not that good because of the front standard which is a little too flimsy for use with lenses.

[scrichton]

F1 is just not that good because of the front standard which is a little too flimsy for use with lenses

Shove that adapter plate on and it is 100 times more stable and a fraction of the price and still as light :D I have the dallmeyer 2.9 8inch on the standard. It is solid as a rock. Same cannot be said for my tripod :( Oh Well.

[JW Dewdney]

That's great. Glad it worked out for you. Just be glad you didn't get a bloody alpina!! You'd have to put 100 of those things on!