Wide angle on 8x10 (Used 210 XL tough find)

[Ramak Fazel]

Like most 8x10 newcomers i'm vexed by the wide angle options. The 210 XL is difficult to find on the used market (prohibitive new). Are there other lens options that allow moderate vertical shifts? Any help would greatly be appreciated.

[Ole Tjugen]

Old or older?

Schneider Symmar 240mm or 210mm - any series. The 210 is rather "tight", though.
Schneider Angulon 210mm, or Super-Angulon 165mm (the plain angulon too, if like me you don't believe Schneider's specifications). The 210mm SA is just too heavy, and IMO better suited to even bigger formats like 11x14" or 30x40cm.

Then there's this nice table here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF8x10in.html)...

[tim atherton]

the 210 G-Claron gives you just a bit of wriggle room - it's been a while, but I think it was about 1"+

However, if you can find a Kowa Graphic 210mm f9 in barrel on ebay it can be easily put in a copal 1 shutter and is an excellent lens. very sharp and with about 2.5" - 3" of rise/fall. And it becomes a 6.8 (?) lens once it's in the shutter

caveats - I've no idea what they are going for these days? (I got one in the last year for about $180, but I've seen them go for much more)

not all the Kowa 210's are created equal - one version screws right out of the barrel and screws straight into a copal shutter. Another version just doesn't....

but that aside, it's a fantastic little lens

hunt on here for threads on Kowa 210mm

there was one on ebay very recently - but it looks like the wrong kind - I think it needs lettering inside around the lens glass and there is none visible on this one. also I know the one I saw that didn't work had the 210*** serial number as well:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Kowa-210mm-Lens-in-Barrel_W0QQitemZ120106574634QQihZ002QQcategoryZ710QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


another one sold recently in a shutter for 475.00 - which is a pretty good price...

http://cgi.ebay.com/210MM-F9-0-GRAPHIC-KOWA-COMPUTAR-LENS-IN-SHUTTER_W0QQitemZ280098336438QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15248QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[tim atherton]

oh - there's also an older (sepdicific) version of the fuji 210 5.6 lens that gives about 1.5"+ of movement or so

they also seem to go for a reasonable price as well

[Ramak Fazel]

Thank you for your quick responses. Timothy, the pictures i've seen in Peripheral Vision are very impressive. The images have subtle visual clues that transend formal compositional balance. Thanks for the tips.

[archivue]

210 konica hexanon is a cheap alternative and MC...

[tim atherton]

I should have added that you can still use the "wrong" version of the Kowa 210 in the barrel without a shutter just fine - just not that convenient.

Archi - does the Konica mount easily in a shutter?

[vijayn]

Then there is the Apo Sironar W 210mm f/5.6. It gives you about 50mm of rise or so. It is also fairly light, and if you use the 210 SSXL as a reference, also pretty compact. Of course, that is all relative, since anything with a Copal 3 shutter is neither compact nor light in the true sense of the term. But then, neither is 8x10.

Sorry, I digress. You can get the Apo Sironar W 210mm from Ebay for between $1500 and $2000; however I have seen some go for significantly cheaper. "Sinaron WS" and "Apo Sironar" designations are both the same as Apo Sironar W, but many people do not know that, so sometimes you can get them for a song (and maybe a dance ;-)). For instance, I got a mint (truly like new, no box etc) Apo Sironar 210mm for $600 from ebay. Stunning performer, needless to say; and for the performance, dare I say, cheap.

You have to be patient if you want a deal like that - so if you want your 210mm lens right now, you will have to consider the alternatives that have already been suggested.

[Carsten Wolff]

Quite interesting: Up to 5x7 there's no shortage of w.a. lenses; hop up to 8x10 and the options start to thin out a fair bit for anything lighter, although that's not what 8x10 is about, right? ;).
You could go for very old and look for a set of Conley Wide Angle lenses (often offered as front and rear group w/o shutter or barrel; quite cheap). VERY nice lenses for their age and lack of coating... I use the 5x7 and "full plate" sets and am more than happy with them for b/w (haven't tried color).
The 8x10 version should be in about the 210 to 240 range...

Plug: Am selling my 240/700 convertible Sironar on the *bay right now....:)

[kjsphotography]

240 Caltar II covers 8x10 without a hitch ( lots of movements ). Super sharp and easy to find. Not very expensive either.

[tim atherton]

240 Caltar II covers 8x10 without a hitch ( lots of movements ). Super sharp and easy to find. Not very expensive either.


yes - there a certainly more easily available (and affordable...) lenses for 8x10 in the 240/250mm range than in 210mm

[André Thomas]

Dear Ramaka,
I tried the Super Symmar HM 210 first and had permanent problems with vignetting. I like the 210 mm focal length for 8x10" a lot so I moved to the Super Symmar XL 210 last year. It will be offered 2-3 times a year at ebay - I brought my lens used and IMHO it is well worth to wait for this lens.
Best regards,
André

[Brian Ellis]

The 210 G Claron stopped down to f16 will cover 8x10, as you continue to stop down from there the coverage continues to increase. At about f32 you'll get a fair amount of front rise and f64 will give you quite a lot. The 159mm f9.5 Wollensak is a pretty nice 8x10 lens and also has room for movements. Both are small and light, easy to backpack. I've used both of these lenses for 8x10, both have worked very well though I haven't made any big enlargements from negatives made with the Wollensak.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

They are not very common, but I use a 210mm f9 Computar on both 11x14 and 8x10. They are tight with 11x14, but cover 8x10 with huge movements. I really like mine, but these lenses have recently become cult items and sell for absurd prices.

[Diane Maher]

However, if you can find a Kowa Graphic 210mm f9 in barrel on ebay it can be easily put in a copal 1 shutter and is an excellent lens. very sharp and with about 2.5" - 3" of rise/fall. And it becomes a 6.8 (?) lens once it's in the shutter


Tim,
How can you tell if the Kowa Graphic would become a f/6.8 (or whatever) lens once it's in the shutter? Is this limited to only Copal 1 shutters? Mine is in a Polaroid press shutter, so I am curious.

Diane

[Mark Sawyer]

Just to eliminate a couple of candidates, the 210mm f/6.8 Dagor and 215mm f/4.8 Acuton/Caltar both cover 8x10, but with little left for movements.

[tim atherton]

Tim,
How can you tell if the Kowa Graphic would become a f/6.8 (or whatever) lens once it's in the shutter? Is this limited to only Copal 1 shutters? Mine is in a Polaroid press shutter, so I am curious.

Diane

Diane,

Here's the original post from Jim Galli

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showpost.php?p=56220&postcount=6

I found this to be so with my Kowa 210 at about the same time Jim posted that. Once it was in a shutter (which was stolen from a G-Claron 210) and re-mounted/checked out, I found with the aperture at f9 that the blades weren't completely open - there was room to open it what looked like close to an extra stop.

The barrel mount restricts the aperture to f9, but in the copal you get the extra aperture.

As for the Polaroid shutter, I'm not sure how different the dimensions are - if at all? (Jim may actually be able to answer that, as he's the Polaroid shutter king...)

I've compared my Kowa 210 with a Kyvytar 210 that came mounted in a shutter and is engraved as 6.8. They appear to be identical.

(note, most of the Computar 210's are slightly different. I think they do give the 6.8? But they also give quite a bit more coverage 420mm or so vs about 390mm (I think - going from memory) - which bumps up the price more than the Kowa)

[squiress]

I have a 210 Wollensak WF that I'm pretty sure covers with room to spare.

Stew

[Ralph Barker]

FWIW, facing the same decision, I opted to go with the 150mm SS XL, as the 210 is such a monster. Plus, I already had a 240mm G-Claron. Even the 150 is pretty large, though, and might be wider than you want.

[james zhou]

I wish Schneider could make a 210 SSXL f8 or f9 that uses a 105mm filter, while building another wide lens such as a 300mm SSXL f9 that uses the current 135mm (127mm?) filter. It is a dream of course.

[Capocheny]

Dagor77 was selling 210 WA Raptars for rediculously small dollars a short while ago...

I bought one and had it mounted into a Copal shutter but haven't shot much with it yet.

Sweet hunk of glass though. :)

Cheers

[John Kasaian]

My WA of choice is a yellow dot Wollensak 159mm because I could afford it :cool: