View Full Version : JOBO CPP CPA Black & White users lets compare notes.

Jim Galli
13-Apr-2007, 09:13
I'll begin with my normal cycle. I would do exactly the same with other sizes but I wrote this for the other thread and happened to use my common denominator, 8X10. I'm curious what other folks are doing time wise and wash wise. Am I in overkill mode? My times and amounts have been formulated over time by seat of the pants. Time to see what some of you other folks are doing successfully.

My normal Jobo cycle:
I'll run through one of my 8X10 development cycles just for comparison sake. Efke R100 Cirkut film cut for the 8X10. 5 sheets. 12.5 min. with Pcat HD 2:2:100 @ 70 degrees. Short 90 second pre wash in tap H2O. All washes in Tap H2O also. I pour in 800ml developer. This is in a JOBO CPA. Slowest rotation. At 6.5 min I change the developer with 800 ml fresh Pcat.

After the development I wash in regular water for 5 minutes. 3 washes over the 5 minute period, the first being the shortest to remove most of the remaining dev.

Fix with 800 ml TF-4 for 7 minutes. Then the washes begin. Eight 2 1/2 minute washes. Wash no. 2 is with Kodak Hypo Clear. All others except #8 are just water with the machine rotating as normal. On the final wash I introduce some Calgon. It doesn't take much. I "save" that final Calgon H2O wash water and add 1 drop of photo-flo to it in a tray to give the sheets a final swish just before they get hung to dry. This has been giving me spotless negs. Time consuming but I feel satisfied that all those washes have prepared the 3005 drum for the next batch of developer with residual fix being impossible.

13-Apr-2007, 09:30
Hi Jim,
I have the multi tank 5 that I put two 4x5 reels in. I use the slowest speed, 68 degrees, and dilution H with HC110. Presoak in distilled water. In fact all washes are distilled since I'm surprised our water isn't semi solid from all the minerals in it. Presoak for 3 minutes, develop for 8 minutes, stop with Distilled water for 2 minutes, fix with PF rapid fix for 4 minutes, three seccesive rinses with distilled water, the a final swish of photoflo. I'm interested in your calgon process. Oh and that was with the last of my Tmax I had been given a few years back.

13-Apr-2007, 09:38
Introduction of HypoClear should reduce your wash time to 5 minutes, no?

20 min seems excessive...but Jim, if it works for you, and judging by the extraordinary quality of your images, that's all that matters!

Scott Davis
13-Apr-2007, 10:36
I don't use hypo-clear when developing with Pyrocat because, but perhaps this is bad information on my part, I was under the understanding that the hypo-clear/perma-wash/etc will ultimately reduce the stain. I don't use the Efke film so I won't comment on time/temp combos, but I usually start with a 2 minute pre-wet with filtered tap water (I've got a filter/temp control panel on the line in my darkroom), do my dev cycle, then five minute fix in Kodak Rapid Fixer (without hardener), then a 1,2,3,4 minute wash cycle in the Jobo. All with the same filtered tap water that I use to mix my working solutions and my pre-wet. Each batch of chems/water is 500 cc when doing 5x7 in the 3010 drum.

tim atherton
13-Apr-2007, 10:59
5 min pre-wash

8min Pyrocat HD 2:2:100 (@20c)

2 minute water Stop

7 minutes Kodak Fixer (non hardening)

and the (Ilford? Jobo?...?) recommended Wash of 1min; 1min; 2min; 4min

same for 4x5 or 8x10 in Job Drums on a CPA2

Oren Grad
13-Apr-2007, 11:36
Jobo CPA-2, rotation speed "4".

No prewash.

D-76, 1+1 for small formats through 4x5, straight for 5x7 or larger. Either way, 4 oz. of D-76 stock per 8x10 equivalent of film surface to be developed. I have all four Expert drum types - 3004, 3005, 3006, 3010 - and just grab whichever makes most sense for the number and size of sheets to be developed.

Developing temp typically 68 degrees.

Developing time usually just Ilford's recommended times; negatives are intended for either contact printing or, with smallest sizes, occasionally for enlarging with a dichroic diffusion head. Occasionally I'll add 10-15% to developing time if original scene was especially flat.

30 seconds Kodak Indicator Stop except with Forte or Efke emulsions, which get 30 seconds water stop.

4 minutes Ilford Hypam rapid fix; 5 minutes on the rare occasions when I shoot TMX or TMY.

6 x 2 min. wash in the drum.

Final dunk in PhotoFlo in a tray before hanging up to dry.

Tap water, filtered for particulates, used throughout.

I also do ULF formats in 3000-series print drums. Same general protocol, except that Forte emulsions get an 8-minute Perma Wash step after the fixer and before the wash, to help in clearing antihalation and sensitizing dyes. This isn't needed for smaller sizes in the Expert drums, which clear nicely without the extra help.

Michael Alpert
13-Apr-2007, 13:37

I use a 3006 tank for 5x7 HP-5 negatives. I use XTol a little longer than Kodak's recommended time.Then I use Stop and Rapid Fix as recommended. I use much shorter washes than you. Five 30-second washes before a three-minute cycle with Fixer Remover, then seven more quick washes. Then I put the tank in a deep sink for a longer wash with water flowing into the opened tank, rotating the water so that each negative is washed with flowing water (I am not sure that rotating the tank really makes much difference). Last, there's a thirty-second tray wash (negatives placed in the tray one at a time) with distilled water and a very small amount Photo-Flo before I hang each negative up to dry. Using this process, I have yet to have a single negative do anything strange (I am knocking on wood as I type this last sentence!).

Ed K.
13-Apr-2007, 15:04
3005, 8x10:

All water, well-filtered tap (filter removes sediment and clorine).

All chemicals used one-shot. For best results, chemicals should be filtered after a mix to remove anything that has settled out. Surprising how much difference it can make.

Depends on the film and developer for development times. Most times are 10% below recommended time for tanks or no more than at recommended unless I want to expand or contract. For example, to get a nice printable range on Acros, shoot at 64 and pull development time 20% in the Jobo, or to make TMAX 100 print well on POP, shoot at 100 and then add 20-25% development even with Jobo, in most cases to get a dense POP negative...but this varies a lot by film.

In summer, use ice in water bath to cool. In winter, use they extra bottles to hold water for pre-rinse and initial rinse wash. Washing is troublesome in summer because the tap can get to 80+ degrees around here. Need a chiller (someday!).

For films with a lot of dye, including TMAX, 3 minute prewash. This removes all dye traces by the time the fix is done.

Develop, stop (for most developers/fixers; read acid process) or 1 minute water rinse otherwise.

Fix in rapid fix for 5 minutes.

Wash for 6 one minute cycles, new 750ml water each time, mostly to flush processor. No longer using Permawash, as it adds a slime and must be filtered carefully before use (otherwise, the tiny sediment chunks are difficult to wash out). When I have used Permawash, I ended up using a fraction of the recommended amount before finally ditching it for film use.

Remove tank, pop lid. Rinse lid out and set aside to dry.

If not using hangers to wash, ie: I'm just going to scan it and then forget about the neg:

Fill drum up completely with water. Let stand a minute. Watch as more scum floats to the top. Dump and repeat twice. Fill and then let sit for another 10 minutes. Come back - hey got more slight scum diffused in there in most cases, fill and dump twice more. Now it's pretty darned clean. Surprising how a soak will let more stuff diffuse out. By scum, I mean anything that looks other than clean water or water with some bubbles, not a thick froth (or certain eBay sellers).

Gently spray rinse from center to outer edges both sides, dip in tray of Edwal wetting agent (just a drop or two to a tray is plenty), then rinse gently for a few moments both sides, then hang to dry. I never put any sort of wetting agents into the Jobo.

If I really care about the neg itself, carefully put in hangers, rinse under running water and then wash in washer followed by a running rinse.

From watching the stuff that floats up after it diffuses into the standing water in the tank, I'm convinced that the Jobo spin wash is not good enough. See for yourself.

Whether it is TMAX or Efke, or whatever, I never have traces of dye left on the negs and they do come out clean.

When done, clean drum, etc. for the next time.

One day soon, I'm going to get a good 8x10 film washer, the one that puts some moving water on both sides of the film. From there it would just be a matter of running water through the funnel and rinsing the tank while the film washes properly. I don't believe that the Jobo produces a good enough wash.

Denis Pleic
13-Apr-2007, 15:38
I started with Jobo CPE (the smallest one) and switched to CPA-2 a few months back.
The procedure was/is the same for both units (Efke PL100 in Rodinal):

1) prewash in distilled water for 5 min (out water is VERY hard, I use distilled/filtered water for everythng photographic, except washing prints)
(rotation speed was "faster" on CPE and "4" on CPA-2)

2) develop in Rodinal 1+60 for 9:30 min, 20 deg. C

3) stop bath (distilled water) for 2 mins, sometimes 2 changes of water, one each minute

4) fix in Fotokemika's FF-2 rapid fixer for 6-7 minutes

5) wash in distilled water for 5-10 minutes, about 10 changes of water total

6) dip in Photo-Flo (30 sec.) (separate tray)

and hang to dry....

I use 2523 (small) tank for 4x5 (4 negs on single spool) or Multitank 5 (i.e. 2551) for 2 spools with 4 negs each.

I use 2840 tank for 5x7 negs, using my DIY neg "sleeves"/holders to hold the negs in the drum.

I must confess that Ed's suggestion for getting rid of "scum" sounds interesting - might try that next time, since I sometimes have tiny spots/particles on the dry negs - which are definitely not dust!... :(


Paul Ewins
13-Apr-2007, 18:46
4x5 in a 3010 on a CPP2;
No pre-wash, but 5 minute pre-warm of the drum.
Chemicals used one shot (usually ID 11 1:1)
rinse (30 sec),
4 x 60 sec rinse on the processor followed by 10 minutes in a filled drum sitting in the sink.
Hang up to drip dry.

Times, volumes and rotation speed as as per Ilford and Jobo recommendations. Using ID11 1:1 gives me a good match between the volume of solution required to cover the negs and the volume of developer required to develop the negs.

The darkroom has been out of action for six months while renovations take place and it will probably be another month until it is going again so this sort of discussion is both interesting and frustrating. So many things that I want to try. And then there is all that 8x10 film waiting in the freezer...

Jim Galli
13-Apr-2007, 20:50
Thanks to all so far. Keep the ideas coming. Seems I probably am doing a lot of extra washing compared to most. A good while ago I posted a plea for help over at APUG (Jan of 06) (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/23246-white-calcite-crudballs-my-negs-after-theyre-dry-ideas.html). The problem continued for a time until I started introducing the Calgon. Calgon is Sodium Hexametaphosphate. You can do searches at Ebay under the chemical name and buy a supply for 50 lifetimes from industrial water treatment sellers. It is the same stuff that makes your wine glasses sparkle in the dishwasher. A water surfactant for hard water which we have out here in the desert. It solved my problem with the negs and also leaves the Jobo tank sparkly clean. I put enough granules to cover 2/3 of a nickel in a liter of water on that last rinse. I've never weighed that amount on a scale. 1/4 teaspoon would be close. Hi Aggie!

15-Apr-2007, 08:18
Started rotary processing with SS reels in a Bessler "thermos-style" drum with UniColor Roller base in 1988.
Used that system until 2000 when I switched to Jobo CPP2 & Lift with 1500 tanks and plastic reels.
2-120 rolls per reel
Usually 10 rolls per run

T-max film (usually)
T-max developer (usually)

Bottles set up like this:
First bottle=one-shot t-max developer (1:4)
Second bottle = acetic acid stop (from 28% stock solution)
Third bottle = ilford rapid fixer (1:4)
Fourth bottle (black) = 1 min wash
Fifth bottle = permawash (dilute per instructions)
Sixth bottle (black) = 1 liter wash to clean the lift

Load in a changing bag
Temp = 24
Dry pre-temper 5 minutes (not a wet prewash)
Speed = fast
Developer (time based on what prints well on my D5500)
Stop 1 min
Fix 6 min
Wash 1 min
Permawash 1 min
1 liter wash for the lift.

5 min wash in the tank with the Jobo wash hose

Remove film from reel and put SS clips on each end
dip in photofo (diluted with distilled water)

Dry in non-heated, dedicated cabinet

Hepa air cleaner running when ever negatives are 'in the open' or drying.

Next day:

Cut and place in hanging negative preservers.

See this thread for my Rodinal rotary process:http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?p=217837#post217837