Film Holder Quality?

[John Cahill]

Fidelity, Lisco, Riteway, Whatever Else?

When shopping for 4x5 and 5x7 holders, is any one brand, or within-brand grade holder better than others? Please advise.

TIA

[Don Hutton]

Toyo holders are probably the best finished and generally regarded by those who have used them as "the best". Toyo have not manufactured any 5x7 holders in the past; only 4x5 and 8x10 holders. 4x5 Toyo holders at Badger Graphic are currently cheaper than Fidelity holders - they are $30 per holder. Their 8x10 holders are sginificantly heavier than Fidelity or Liscos (about 5 ounces).

At present, no-one is making 5x7 holders. There is talk that holders may be made by Fotoman (a Chinese manufacturer). Do a search and you will find extensive information about that and the possibility of Toyo perhaps making some 5x7 holders.

[BrianShaw]

I use all three brands that you mention, John, in 4x5 and have never noticed a significant difference.

[Ed K.]

Some of the 8x10 Fidelity holders have a metal dark slide, others have plastic in various degrees of cheapness. It's not always easy finding the ones with metal dark slides, however I did manage to pick up a couple that were new in the box. If you care about it be sure to ask/look. I prefer the metal dark slides (heavier, but they don't break or bind). Some may prefer plastic. The image flatness is the same either way.

While I can't speak for 5x7 and 8x10 holders from Toyo, I wouldn't go out of my way to get their cheaply made 4x5 holders. Perhaps the larger ones are better, or perhaps even there are differences among the Toyo holders too.

[walter23]

I have a couple of toyo holders and a bigger stack of fidelity holders (all 4x5). Both types work great - no flatness problems that I've noticed, no light leaks, no difficulties to load / unload. The toyos do seem more solid and slick (they have a thin metal film bed, and a nicer hinged door), but they're also brand new (whereas my fidelity holders are probably 20+ years old - used purchase from ebay). I suppose the fact that the old floppy plastic fidelity ones work so well despite their age is testament to their good construction.

On the other hand the toyo holders really stink! It's sort of a pleasing chemical smell, but it's probably also modifying my DNA.

[Dave Parker]

For the most part, what I look for in a film holder, is film flatness, light proof and smooth dark slides, other than that, I could care less what brand they are, I have many of each brand and as long as they offer what I am looking for in a film holder, all is good.

Dave

[roteague]

I can't say. All my holders are Toyo. They are excellent and I've never had any reason to try any other brand.

[nate_ross]

I can't say. All my holders are Toyo. They are excellent and I've never had any reason to try any other brand.

My first four were Toyo. They're expensive and smell like petrochemicals. My next ten were Fidelity Elites, and all ten cost less than four of the toyos. No problems with any of them.

[C Henry]

I own both Toyo (x6) and Fidelity (x2) holders in 5x4. If I can, I avoid using the Fidelity, they don't give me confidence, although it might be psychosomatic ;)

[Robert Ley]

I recently converted most of my holders to the newer Riteway holders. The dark slides are locked into the holder. There is a small button that you depress to remove the dark slide. This button is depressed when you insert the holder in the camera. One caveat is that these holders will not work in Linhof cameras, but work great in my Wista VX. Another nice feature is that they have two number wheels that can be set to mark each holder with a two number code. I have only used Riteway holders and have had no problems with any of the holders.

[Matus Kalisky]

I do not understand one thing here - nearly everybody mention that Toyo film holders cost more than Fidelity - but if you have a look at Badgergrapgics the Fidelity holders cost couple of $ more than the Toyo...? I am speking - 4x5 - ...

[Don Hutton]

I do not understand one thing here - nearly everybody mention that Toyo film holders cost more than Fidelity - but if you have a look at Badgergrapgics the Fidelity holders cost couple of $ more than the Toyo...? I am speking - 4x5 - ...
It's a great deal....

[Sal Santamaura]

...Toyo...They...smell like petrochemicals...This is a problem with Toyo production from recent years only. It's the reason I've dropped out of Gary's 5x7 special order group and will instead be purchasing Fotoman holders, both 5x7 and 6.5x8.5. In all other respects Toyos are superior to Fidelity/Lisco, but the stench from new ones is intolerable.

I'm super pleased with my 10 4x5 and 5 8x10 older Toyos, all purchased new years ago. They're smooth operating and, while "flatness" is no different than that of Fidelity/Lisco, T-distance tolerance is far better. I've measured all these Toyos as well as 10 4x5 and 12 8x10 Fidelity/Lisco holders (also purchased new) to confirm that.

[Scott Davis]

I was in B&H a few weeks ago, and they had some Toyo 4x5 holders on the shelf. Having read here and other places about the Toyo "smell", I checked it out for myself. They do have a peculiar odor, at least the current production ones.

I'm a big fan of the Riteways with the locking buttons in 4x5. It's just such a smart idea. I have about twenty of them now, half bought new and half used. I have removed the number wheels, because they show up in inconvenient ways if you're trying to print/scan full-frame 4x5 transparencies, and I really don't care to be fooling around with Photoshop that much just to get rid of the numbers. Also, the number wheels don't always stay put, and you end up with three #14 sheets in a single batch.

[Robert Hughes]

I prefer the old wooden Folmer Graflex holders, except when they're mouldy. But those newfangled plastic ones from the 60's are almost as good.

[Don Hutton]

You guys sniff lenses with the same vigour??....

[Sal Santamaura]

You guys sniff lenses with the same vigour??....There's no need for sniffing current Toyo holders. See this thread, especially post #4:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=8417&highlight=reeking+film+holders

I experienced a similar situation; the stench was evident from outside a shipping box when approaching it on my porch where UPS had left the package.

[Don Hutton]

It's bizarre. Last year I bought 8 new 8x10s and 16 new 4x5s - none of them "stink". Lucky I suppose...

[nate_ross]

There's no need for sniffing current Toyo holders. See this thread, especially post #4:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=8417&highlight=reeking+film+holders

I experienced a similar situation; the stench was evident from outside a shipping box when approaching it on my porch where UPS had left the package.

Sounds about right. DO NOT leave them in a warm car. I think that makes the outgassing much worse. My car smelled like that for a week. My camera bag has had a distinct smell since I bought them in the spring of 2005.

[C. D. Keth]

I have used new riteway and fidelity elite holders, old fidelity elite holders, old wood kodak holders, old wood and bakelite eastman holders (which are different than the kodak ones for some reason) and some old unmarked wooden holders.

I can't tell a difference once I'm looking at film and not holders. They keep light out until the right moment, that's all they do.

[Joe_6286]

With Toyo holders I don't have to worry about light fogging when the sun is positioned in line with the open slot when the darkslide is pulled out, whereas with Fidelity I do have to be concerned (and cover with a darkcloth). The Toyo holder body seems to be made much better than the Fidelity. However the Toyo darkslides I have are not metal, and I understand that Fidelity does sell a metal darkslide, although most are plastic. I've cracked a Toyo darklside before, and I wish they provided a metal one.

[Jean-Marie Solichon]

I've cracked half of my Toyo darkslides and none of Fidelity.

[Ole Tjugen]

My own preference is for the old Linhof holders. Not the "Universal Film & Plate", but the plain, simple "standard" holders.

I wish I had more of them.

[Toyon]

Newer Toyo holders do have an unpleasant odor. I think they switched to some kind of aromatic hydrocarbon. I simply open them up and place them in a protected place outside for a couple of weeks. After that the smell is 85% gone. I agree too that the darkslides are not as robust as other brands. That being said, I much prefer Toyo holders. I find that film slips inside of Riteway holders.

[Shen45]

A neat little rough and ready test tool can assess the general accuracy of your holders.

Take a straight edge and place it on its edge across the film plane opening of the GG, then place a square piece of plastic so that it sits gently down on the ground glass surface. Tape this in place. You now have a depth gauge based on the actual position of you GG in your camera.

Put a blank piece of film in a holder and with the dark slide removed sit you depth gauge in position. The ruler will sit on the open edges of the holder and the plastic should sit so it is just touching the piece of film in the holder. Any light between the plastic and the film or the straight edge and the edges of the straight edge indicates a difference in film plane. A small variation is nothing to be concerned about but if you can see your neighbour across the road probably that holder is faulty.

I have about 30 5x4 holders of all types and the only duds were the more modern Lisco. Most of the Lisco passed well but some were way out but only on one side of the holder. It helped explain why some images were soft.

Some of my best holders are very bad by visual [condition] standard.

Steve

[John Kasaian]

I haven't tried Toyos, but my old Baco Hollywood film holders rock! Easily better built than the other 4x5 holders in my kit though wooden Liscos and plastic Riteway Graphic (or is it Graphic Riteway??) and Agfa Anscos come close. My favorites are the Bacos.

[BradS]

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the modern plastic holders from Fidelity, Lisco and Riteway. There was some off brand type that was certainly to be avoided - I don't recall the name.

Recent Fidelity and Lisco holders are pretty much equivalent. If they have been treated with a modicum of care, they work fine. They don't like to be dropped on concrete though. :)