Which would you suggest for my needs - 210mm

[Ben R]

Hi,

I'm looking to build up a LF system. The lenses I want are a 90mm and 210mm. They will be used for photographing alleyway type architecture with low buildings. Now the thing is that the resulting prints will be big, 50" wide at a minimum. I need the maximum amount of resolution so that there will be enough detail for the enlargement to hold up from 4X5. (larger just isn't an option at this stage). I will be shooting in the middle east with bright sun and bright white/cream walls reflecting said sun, that said the shadows will be there from the buildings and given how rubbish I am at focusing anyway, slower than f5.6 isn't an option. It isn't that I'm going to be hiking or anything.

From my research here and using the comparison pages of this site, as well as reading far back into the archives, I've come up with 2 options for the 210mm at the same price (all 2nd hand).

Caltar II N 210mm f5.6
Nikkor 210mm f5.6

Which of these will give me superior resolution, contrast and flare control or should I spring the extra $200 or so and get the Apo Symmar?

[Ted Harris]

Ben, variations of this question come up again and again and the answer is that it really doesn't matter. The differences in performance between lenses of the same design from the "big four" of LF lens manufacturing (Rodenstock/Caltar/Sinar, Schneider, Nikon and Fuji) is so small as to be meaningless for the type of photography you are describing. Thus buy the one that best suits yoru budget, the additional 200 for an Apo Symmar will buy you nothing ... unless youa re talking the current Apo Symmar-L which will buy you a bit more coverage.

[Michael Heald]

Hello! When I moved up from my starter uncoated 210mm Ilex Calumet Caltar lens, I chose a multi-coated 210mm Sironar N and I have been thrilled. The contrast is wonderful, image circle for movements great! I don't know how it compares to the other lens you've listed, but I am very happy with the Sironar N. Best regards.

Mike

[Ed Richards]

The stability of your camera and tripod are going to be a lot more important than any lens differences. Put your extra money there.

[Ken Lee]

If focusing is your problem, it sounds like you may not have a focusing loupe.

If that's the case, then the purchase of an inexpensive 8x loupe may improve image quality more than choice of lens.

[Claude Sapp]

I like my 210/5.6 Symmar-S. I have much more expensive lenses in the 200-240 range, but I keep going back to the Symmar-S. It really does not garner much respect and is inexpensive, but I think it is a very fine lens, and it is easily my most used lens on 4x5 and 5x7.

[eric black]

I have a Nikkor W 210mm lens and love it- I think I bought it used for about $350 which is 20% of what some of my more expensive and less used lenses cost- I only hesitate to use this lens when Im facing the sun and flare is a possiblity- I have several enlargements made from this lens that are spectacular.

[paulr]

The biggest consideration is how much front rise you think you'll need. When I work with subjects that resemble traditional landscapes, I don't need much rise or any other movements; the image circle of the lens is unimportant. In urban areas like what you're describing, I'm often shifting the lens to the edges of the image circle ... so I'm happy to have a modern 210 with lots of coverage and good performance off axis.

Unless you think you're not going to use much shift, I'd narrow the search to multicoated plasmats by Schneider and Rodenstock. The Caltar might actually be one of these. I have no experience with any of the 210 nikkors ... if any has the image circle you need and mulitcoating you'll probably want, then they could be a good bet too.

[David A. Goldfarb]

The Caltar II-N is a Rodenstock Sironar-N. As Ted says, it doesn't much matter unless you need a lens with more coverage, but I have a 180 Caltar II-N and a 135 Caltar II-N, and they are both very sharp lenses with good contrast and smooth out of focus rendition.

[Ken Lee]

Ah.. David. Now that we are talking about bokeh:

Any comments on the bokeh of Sironar versus Heliar ?

[David A. Goldfarb]

Ya know, the Sironar-N is pretty good to my eye, but the look is different. The Heliar gets more of that 3-D sharp line between the in-focus and out-of-focus, but it depends in part on how you use it (aperture and subject distance above all).

[james zhou]

I would check out the 210mm APO Sironar S or the 210mm Super Symmar HM. These lenses are made from ED glass and are sharper than the other 210mm lenses. I have never enlarged pictures that big, but from the 8x10 negatives made from these lenses, I can tell that there is a significant difference when compared to a Rodenstock Sironar 210mm N lens (brought and then sold as a result of the test) for sure.

Jim

[paulr]

I would check out the 210mm APO Sironar S or the 210mm Super Symmar HM. These lenses are made from ED glass and are sharper than the other 210mm lenses.Jim

It's really not true that ED glass magically makes lenses sharper. It's just a glass with certain dispersion characteristics that makes certain kinds of designs possible.

The Super Symmar HM lenses are not really sharper than the regular apo symmar lenses; they just have gobs more coverage. More than most mortals need for 4x5 (in the long focal lengths). They're also enormous, heavy, and expensive for a 210mm lens.

The Apo Sironar S is more comparable to the standard Apo Symmar (S or L line) in terms of performance, size, price, etc.

[Ben R]

The stability of your camera and tripod are going to be a lot more important than any lens differences. Put your extra money there.

Would you consider my my MF3 with 468MG (16+ kilo) and RRS QR good enough for a Tachihara for working in the field then?

[james zhou]

the 210mm HM would be an overkill for 4x5, but it is a dream lens for 8x10 (5cm of shift). I agree the 210 Sironar S is s better lens for 4x5.

[Ben R]

Well last night I won a bid on a Caltar II N 5.6 from the Adorama ebay outlet. Thanks for reasuring me that I could spend such a stupidly low amount of money (I'm used to Canon L glass prices!) for a great lens.

[Ted Harris]

Ben, I can't comment on the specific tripod/head combo you mention as I have not used either one but if your tripod/head combo is rated to support something in the range of double the weight of your camera and lens then you are in good shape. From what you said it looks like yours fall into this category (just).

[r.e.]

They will be used for photographing alleyway type architecture with low buildings.

I like your photograph of the man at the Wailing Wall in the rain. I gather from one of your threads (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=24862) that your project will focus, in part, on the old city in Jerusalem. Given that you have photographed there before, you probably know this already, but the alleys and the suks, if that is what you mean by "alleyway type architecture", are quite narrow and confined. There is a good deal of pedestrian traffic and people moving carts of goods, not to mention the occasional rider on a donkey. The walkways on the top of the city walls, if you want to photograph from them, are also very narrow. My best recollection is that those walkways are not wide enough, or only barely so, to take the footprint of a tripod, and they are quite busy with pedestrian traffic, tour groups, etc.

Unless you have an assistant, and quite possibly the co-operation of the authorities, it may not be easy, perhaps even forbidden, in a good part of the old city to set up a large format camera and tripod. You might find it useful to have a medium format camera, or perhaps a handholdable 4x5, and, if you think it useful, a monopod. I mention a monopod, in part, because while you are right that "bright sun and bright white/cream walls" (to quote your post) are common enough, the light in a fair number of places in the old city is actually quite subdued.

As I say, you have probably thought about all of this, and I don't mean to be discouraging. I just have a feeling, having photographed in the old city myself, that it may be quite a challenge to use a large format camera and tripod in significant portions of the old city unless you have official co-operation and a two or three man crew. Of course, perhaps you have arranged for that, or plan to.

[Ben R]

RE, that is what dawn is for! Light traffic. I had already considered that I would need to shoot at dawn or just after for the lighting, the clarity of the air and the ability to shoot without being too much in the way.

[r.e.]

Ben,

That might well work in many parts of the city. I don't know whether it will work for the Suks because I don't know when the vendors start setting up for the day, particularly those who are bringing in produce, etc. I guess that you'll find out.

Anyway, it sounds like the strategy is "run 'n' gun" large format :) And you know, maybe after people have seen you around for a few days, they might even get on board with co-operating. A very interesting project. Best of luck with it.

[Amund BLix Aaeng]

Well last night I won a bid on a Caltar II N 5.6 from the Adorama ebay outlet. Thanks for reasuring me that I could spend such a stupidly low amount of money (I'm used to Canon L glass prices!) for a great lens.


Congrats, I bought just the same lens a few months back, and it`s a great lens!

Super sharpness. I can show an example, not that interesting photo, but it shows off some of the lens qualities IMO

http://foto.no/bildekritikk/images/b_284883.jpg

[Ben R]

To be honest my friend my presence in most of the suks would mean an automatic knife in the back, I'm an religeous Jew and look it! I tried some contacts in the police a while back to ask for someone to keep an eye on me when I was photographing in a dangerous area but they said, and quite rightly, that they had far better things that they had to be doing than looking after a photographer!