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Arsenios
5-Apr-2007, 10:58
Greetings,
recently I bought a SinarX,without a lens or board so I started looking for lenses.Since I was more familiar with the Arca system, I am a bit confused.I dont know what to combine with what.Im mostly looking in the German e-bay and I can understand almost nothing of the item descriptions and this makes it even worst.
So if anyone would be so kind to explain a few things about the sinar lens system or at least tell me where to look.I would very much apreciate it.
And what do you think of the SinarX?
Do you have any lenses to suggest?I need a portrait lens and landscape lens(is 90mm good enough or go wider?)
Thank you

George W.
5-Apr-2007, 11:23
hello arsenios,

why not have a look here:
http://www.sinar.ch/site/index__gast-e-1072-24-1154-urlvars-rand-451.html

This is the "Sinar System Catalog 2001" in English version.
There is also a German version to be found here.
You will also find the exact 'Sinar part numbers'.

---george

Arsenios
5-Apr-2007, 11:27
thank you on your reply.
Let me see if I got this right,the sinar auto apperture shutter is generic and can be used with all copal lenses?And the DB lenses are lenses that have shutter/apperture built in?

BradS
5-Apr-2007, 11:33
but, but, but....you don't need to use any special shutter or aperature thingy with a sinar. You can simply mount what ever lens you have (assuming it is in an Copal shutter) in a Sinar lens board and shoot away....right? What am I missing here? Is the Sinar X one of those funny digital image capture devices?

Tudor Vreme
5-Apr-2007, 11:41
Arsenios,

you find a lot of comments about Sinar X on google, but you have to know all lenses on a sinar plate can fit into your camera.
my first advice is to find on ebay lenses mouted on sinar plates, and you have to decide if you want to have independent shutter and lenses or lenses with copal shutter together. After this you can start looking on ebay.
Send all the accesories you have with sinar, and I can see what you need
I must go now but tomorow I shall have more time to answer
Tudor

Arsenios
5-Apr-2007, 11:43
but, but, but....you don't need to use any special shutter or aperature thingy with a sinar. You can simply mount what ever lens you have (assuming it is in an Copal shutter) in a Sinar lens board and shoot away....right? What am I missing here? Is the Sinar X one of those funny digital image capture devices?

SinarX is actually a P2 without the TTL back

Arsenios
5-Apr-2007, 11:45
Send all the accesories you have with sinar, and I can see what you need
I must go now but tomorow I shall have more time to answer
Tudor
Only thing I have is the SinarX without any lenses or boards or shutters.
thank you

BradS
5-Apr-2007, 11:53
so, ordinary Sinar lensboards with ordinary lenses mounted in COpal shutters should work just fine.

JW Dewdney
5-Apr-2007, 12:28
SinarX is actually a P2 without the TTL back

Actually - that's not QUITE it. Differences are:

1. Doesn't, as you say, have the frame for light metering probe.
2. No centre detents to movements like P2 has
3. Rear standard carrier frame (or whatever you call the thing) can't be removed from the standard like it can on P2.
4. Has red anodized shift knob. P2 has a black one.

that's about it as far as I know...

Mark Sampson
5-Apr-2007, 12:29
If you want, you can buy a Sinar shutter; this mounts into the camera's front standard. Then you can use lenses in the Sinar DB mount; these have no shutters and are sometimes less expensive. Most people just use lenses in ordinary leaf shutters, Copal, Compur, etc., and mount those on a plain Sinar lensboard.

Gene McCluney
5-Apr-2007, 15:53
Yes, generic Sinar lensboards, with generic lens-in-shutters will work fine. The Sinar system of cameras is probably the most adaptable of any monorail camera.
I have even mounted some barrel lenses on Sinar boards and put small Packard shutters behind.

Gene McCluney
5-Apr-2007, 15:55
You don't even "have" to use Sinar boards, I have successfully made a board for my Sinar P2 using masonite..painted flat black. Works just fine.

Ken Lee
5-Apr-2007, 17:12
The advantage of the Sinar shutter is that ideally, you can buy all your lenses "in-barrel", since you already have a shutter.

With all the money you save, you can purchase another Sinar item. For example, you can get a conversion kit, and turn the camera into another size. I just did that very thing. I have several lenses in barrel, and by not purchasing them in shutters (or paying to have them mounted in a shutter - or struggling to find the right shutter), I got a 5x7 kit. Now I can sell my old Kodak 5x7, and pay back the money for the shutter.

Very clever, these Swiss :-)

PS - Igor at Igor's Camera Exchange (http://igorcamera.com/) is very knowledegable about Sinar products. He's the one who encouraged me to get the shutter. He also has a nice selection of classic lenses.

Brian K
5-Apr-2007, 20:00
Arsenios, the auto aperture shutter is great to use in the studio with strobe, however if you plan to do a lot of work with available or continuous light and will use slow shutter speeds with longer than normal lenses, the shutter produces too much vibration.

If you plan to do outdoor work use lenses with their own shutters, such as copal shutters.

JW Dewdney
5-Apr-2007, 20:35
Arsenios, the auto aperture shutter is great to use in the studio with strobe, however if you plan to do a lot of work with available or continuous light and will use slow shutter speeds with longer than normal lenses, the shutter produces too much vibration.

If you plan to do outdoor work use lenses with their own shutters, such as copal shutters.

Actually I heard quite the opposite. I know it's big and clunky and SEEMS like it would... but I read a series of tests this guy did on different shutters and he found the sinar shutter by far the most vibration free... that and some other, older one... like an ilex or something. But regardless - I wouldn't use that shutter for any location work that required breaking down the camera constantly since it's a PITA to constantly set up the shutter with the cables, etc etc...

Arsenios
6-Apr-2007, 00:40
If you want, you can buy a Sinar shutter;.

Yes I'm currently looking for one,it seems like a good general solution.I found a used one in very good condition for 199,- .
Thank you

Arsenios
6-Apr-2007, 00:44
.... all your lenses "in-barrel"...

By in-barrel I guess u mean DB boards.

Arsenios
6-Apr-2007, 00:50
I just want to thank you all, never met people so willing to help in any other forum before.
Thank you I think I found a haven here :)

JW Dewdney
6-Apr-2007, 01:52
The f/4 aperture model is the one to have - they're made later and tend to be a fair bit more expensive. But it sounds like you're already paying out the big bucks - for a camera that took me 18 years to graduate to... but the 5.6 model is FINE for just about any except a few, very expensive lenses. So - I suppose you could upgrade later.

Arsenios
6-Apr-2007, 02:39
But it sounds like you're already paying out the big bucks - for a camera that took me 18 years to graduate to...

Excuse me but English is not my native language.Do u think that I bought a very expensive and difficult to master camera?In your opinion is the SinarX not worth it?I had my eye on a much much cheaper F2 but something came over me and I paid 1200(approx $1800 or more),at least it has a metering back.
Thank you

JW Dewdney
6-Apr-2007, 02:42
No - it's a much better camera. I'm just jealous(!!) because I had to spend years with cameras that weren't as good...! It's a very EASY camera to use. This is the great irony of good equipment - it's usually EASIER. People expect beginners to use really poor equipment - that is actually much harder to use. Yes. Irony.

Arsenios
6-Apr-2007, 03:37
:) I used to work on an arca swiss ten years ago when I was an assistand and its been my dream ever since to get my own camera.Unfortunately my bank account seems to be shrinking rapidly hehe,but at the end I think it will be worth it.I hope I will be able to afford a digital back in the next 3 years.

Brian K
6-Apr-2007, 05:41
Actually I heard quite the opposite. I know it's big and clunky and SEEMS like it would... but I read a series of tests this guy did on different shutters and he found the sinar shutter by far the most vibration free... that and some other, older one... like an ilex or something. But regardless - I wouldn't use that shutter for any location work that required breaking down the camera constantly since it's a PITA to constantly set up the shutter with the cables, etc etc...

JW, I own 2 Sinar auto aperture shutters and also an expolux shutter, I tested them with film versus standard copal shutters 0,1 and the images that the copals produced were sharper. I did not test a copal 3, but I think that would still hold an edge over the auto aperture. I tested them on one of my P2s which has greater rigidty than my F2.


Arsenios, the X is a great camera, however if you plan to shoot landscape, or hike with it, or even just travel a lot, the F2 is smaller, lighter and easier to pack. If you intend to work in the studio, the X is the one to have.

Arsenios
6-Apr-2007, 05:57
JW, I own 2 Sinar auto aperture shutters and also an expolux shutter, I tested them with film versus standard copal shutters 0,1 and the images that the copals produced were sharper. I did not test a copal 3, but I think that would still hold an edge over the auto aperture. I tested them on one of my P2s which has greater rigidty than my F2.


Arsenios, the X is a great camera, however if you plan to shoot landscape, or hike with it, or even just travel a lot, the F2 is smaller, lighter and easier to pack. If you intend to work in the studio, the X is the one to have.

Whats the deal with compur?If I got it right compur lenses dont need anything else to work,I mean all you need is a board(special or copal?).How is the shrpness compared with copal?

Arsenios
6-Apr-2007, 06:45
I think I got it right at last(and without sufferring a major stroke :)).I think that the best way to go is a sinar f/4 behind the lens auto shutter and DB(orDB-M?) mount.I am just not too sure which is best(and cheapest),using DB Lenses(on copal boards?) or plain lenses mounted on DB boards??
And ofcourse I can always use plain lenses with manual f with copal or compur shutters.But I think the first is better since I can take full advantage of the metering back on my SinarX.

Brian K
6-Apr-2007, 06:51
Arsenios, what do you plan on shooting? Studio work or outdoors, landscape type work?

Regarding the metering back on the Sinar, the metering aspect is for use with the sinar booster meter probe, if you do not have the probe and either the minolta or sinar meters that the booster requires, the metering back does not provide metering. If you have the booster probe and the proper meter, the metering back can give you focal plane metering with ANY lens or shutter (copal, compur,prontor).

What any of the sinar backs do is provide a cable operated device that opens and closes the auto aperture shutter when you insert or remove a film holder. This feature does not work with copal or compur shutters that are mounted with the lens on the lens board.

Arsenios
6-Apr-2007, 06:56
Im planning on shooting studio portrait mostly for which I know that the metering back is useless.And maybe some landscape for relaxation(I dont know ofcourse how relaxed I will behaving to carry this heavy camera around).

CG
6-Apr-2007, 21:28
Arsenios,

The Sinar system is wonderful, but you may need to learn more about it to confidently buy what you need. The X is a great camera, but perhaps big to lug around for landscape. But it may be great for portrait.

The F's are probably a good balance between weight and the features of the X.

If you can, buy or borrow an old copy of THE LARGE FORMAT Handbook of the SINAR System by Carl Koch - He's one of the principals at Sinar. It will show you better than almost any other source what does what with Sinar. It is not completely up to date, but shows the various basic cameras, shutters, bellows, lens systems, filter systems, lens shade systems, film holders, format adapters, the Handy Cameras, metering systems....rails, camera holders, viewing systems, etc etc etc. An enormous system. There is a great deal to the Sinar system, and it's worth your time to sort it out.

All that said, it may be hard to go completely wrong with Sinar, since the parts for most (but not every - watch out for the Alpina) cameras are remarkably interchangable. I have Sinars from Sinar Normas through Sinar 4x5 P. Virtually everything can be used with everything. The rails are interchangeable, the accessories are mostly usable with later Sinars. It makes obsolescence less a problem than almost any other camera.

So, eventually, an F for the field, and a P or X for the studio are a possible good long term buy combination. You can even slide the standards from the F onto the rail for the X and have the ultimate, if over the top, lensshade.

C

Gene McCluney
8-Apr-2007, 09:39
Whats the deal with compur?If I got it right compur lenses dont need anything else to work,I mean all you need is a board(special or copal?).How is the shrpness compared with copal?

Compur, Copal, Seikosha, Prontor, Ilex, Acme, are all brands of leaf shutters that you may find with lenses. They are, for practical purposes, identical in their function. If you have a lens mounted in a leaf shutter (Compur, Copal, etc) you do not need any other shutter for that lens. It is complete. All you need is to mount the lens on a lensboard and use it.

The various Sinar shutters that have been discussed mount on the camera, not on the lens, and allow you to use lenses that do not have their own shutters. We call this type of lens a "barrel mount" lens.

Compur, Copal, Prontor, etc., are brand names for types of leaf-shutters that lenses are mounted in. You would not find a "Compur" lens, rather you might find a Rodenstock lens mounted in a Compur shutter. Or a Schneider lens mounted in a Compur shutter. Or a Fuji lens mounted in a Copal shutter, etc. Normally the lens is classified by the maker of the glass optical elements, not the shutter maker.