View Full Version : Comparison Shots: Heliar and Whatever Else

Ken Lee
4-Apr-2007, 20:01
Does anyone have any sets of large format images, made with Heliar and other lenses - to illustrate their charms ?

I have seen images made with Heliars, but most often, they stand alone, so there is no way to see how another lens would have rendered the same subject.

As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Many thanks !

domenico Foschi
4-Apr-2007, 20:29
Sorry Ken, I don't.
I have images shot with Heliar ( beautiful and unique lens in my opinion,) I am afraid I cannot offer you comparisons.
All I can tell you and surely you heard it already, is that this lens has a somewhat tridimensional effect, not just because of the shallow depth of field that can be obtained with it, but for another reason that I have not investigated.
I have found it to be also sharp at max aperture.
One of my favourites.

Jim Galli
4-Apr-2007, 21:34
Here (http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/The1940FordPortraits.html), Heliar, Cooke Portrellic, Versar. And here (http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/JustusPortraits/Justus.html), Heliar next to an Eidoscope. All I can think of just now.

Armin Seeholzer
5-Apr-2007, 00:49
Hi Ken

I'm did it already with Imagon, Universal Heliar, Wollensak Velostigmat, APO Symmar, APO Ronar, Sironar N, but do not have the time rightnow to scann it and put it on my homepage.
I did the same setup with all lenses with different f stops also to show how the DOF and the out of focus looks!
If I find the time to scann I could mail you the pictures on which ones ar you most interested?
Have a good time, Armin Seeholzer

Ken Lee
5-Apr-2007, 03:36
Armin - I would be delighted to scan them and post them on this forum. I will send you my address.

Jim - I have studied and admired your pages countless times. (On that note, I am waiting for arrival of a 12-inch Velostigmat that I got from Igor's).

I have found some "bokeh comparisons" with Leica lenses, but I was fishing around to see if other have done side-by-side test shots, like the set that Christopher Perez made.

Ole Tjugen
5-Apr-2007, 03:46
I have, but I haven't scanned them.

135mm f:4.5 Rodenstock Eurynar and f:3.5 Zeiss Planar, 150mm f:4.5 Heliar, Apo-Lanthar and Xenar, 165mm f:6.8 Angulon - all shot on 5x7" film to show coverage differences.

5-Apr-2007, 11:07
Seems like David Goldfarb might also have done some comparison shots. Have you looked through his gallery images over at APUG? Note especially the series of photos out his window overlooking the Hudson (?) river and Grant's tomb.

Hugo Zhang
5-Apr-2007, 11:32

I will try to see if my pictures can tell the story.

The first one is by a Heliar 36cm lens. The second is by an Artar 19" lens.

The third one is by a Rodenstock Weitwinkel Perigon 13cm f/12.5 lens. The last one is by a 30cm Apo-Lanthar (Heliar type) lens.

When you have a chance to look at the 8x10 contact prints of them, they will tell you a better story.


Oren Grad
5-Apr-2007, 11:45
If you really want to understand the character of a lens, you need to be looking at negatives or at prints, or maybe at 50MB TIFFs made by a skilled scan operator, not at 150KB JPGs. Gross differences will survive a crude scan, but the full scope of subtlety that uniquely characterizes a Heliar - or any other design - won't.

Ken Lee
5-Apr-2007, 13:10
Ole - If you could find some time to scan the images, I'm sure that many people would be most interested to see them.

Hugo - Thanks for the images. If I were nearby, I would love to see the contact prints.

Oren - You're definitely right. I may just have to get one myself and do the tests, to my own liking. A Heliar whose length is close to one of my other lenses, is next on my shopping list !

Asher Kelman
5-Jun-2011, 22:53
I have, but I haven't scanned them.

135mm f:4.5 Rodenstock Eurynar and f:3.5 Zeiss Planar, 150mm f:4.5 Heliar, Apo-Lanthar and Xenar, 165mm f:6.8 Angulon - all shot on 5x7" film to show coverage differences.


What happened to the scans of these lenses, especially 135mm Eurynar?


6-Jun-2011, 12:54
2007 thread....i bet he lost them.....:)

Ole Tjugen
6-Jun-2011, 13:16
Not lost, just "temporarily misplaced". I remember seeing them a couple of years ago, and thinking "oh, so that's where they were!"

Bob Hubert
7-Jun-2011, 09:46
Hi All:

I recently finished a large portrait project that involved using a Verito, Cooke II, Heliar and a Dallmeyer 3A. I agree that scans do not show the subtleties of each lens, but these should give you an idea of the differences.

All of the portraits for this project were shot on a Deardorff P8 using either natural lighting or cool lights with soft boxes. I'll be happy to supply any other information that's useful.

Ken Lee
7-Jun-2011, 11:05
I recently finished a large portrait project that involved using a Verito, Cooke II, Heliar and a Dallmeyer 3A.

Is that the order in which the attached photos appear ?

Bob Hubert
7-Jun-2011, 12:12
Yes, the photos are in the order listed in the post. I am new to the forum and wasn't sure how to label the attachments.


Steven Tribe
7-Jun-2011, 12:14
And a very nice first contribution with an exciting group of lenses.

7-Jun-2011, 12:20
When I passed my mouse over the pictures all was revealed

Ramiro Elena
11-Jun-2011, 01:56
Old thread!

I shot this about 1,5 years ago with the cheap/less sought after versions of a Heliar, Velostigmat II and a no name Petzval. You've all seen them in the portraits thread.

Heliar 210mm @4,5

Velostigmat 7 1/2 @4,5

No name Petzval 150mm @4,5

Larger images on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rabato/4375011375/in/photostream/).

Asher Kelman
14-Jun-2011, 01:11

They're all fine. Is the first to you showing more contrast or is it the printing? I'd love to know how you described your findings when you looked at the prints.


Ramiro Elena
14-Jun-2011, 01:44
Thanks Asher, I was merery trying out the new lenses under same light conditions. Didn't get to print them, just scan so the contrast you see could be PS induced.

I only payed attention to sharpness and out of focus areas. It was one of my first shots with a Petzval so I was quite amazed at the sharpeness a lens that old can deliver.
I love how the out of focus areas are rendered in both the Petzval and the Velostigmat. The Heliar is a newer without difusion model so the oof isn't that evident.

Would love to do a real test with their big brothers on 8x10 but I am poor :(

Some day...

14-Jun-2011, 18:51
The Petzval really looks good there. Is her hair in the Petzval shot (and forehead) going out of focus because of the 'swirl' effect? Her eye is very sharp but I like how here hair just to the left is a bit oof.

Ramiro Elena
15-Jun-2011, 00:58
I haven't tried the Petzval outside (under conditions where you would normally see swirl). With or without, the edges of the frame are impossible to focus. They are very soft. This one barely covers 4x5 at infinity.
The Petzval is my favourite too although I really like the softness of the sweater in the Velostigmat.