Telephoto lens recommendation for Toyo 45AX

[squiress]

Longest lens is currently a 250 Fuji W. Looking for a good telephoto that will get me 480mm or better and still focus with existing bellows in my Toyo AX if such a lens exists.

Thanks

Stew

[steve simmons]

A telehoto lenswill require a bellows extension of about 66% of its focal length. Nikon makes, or made, a 500mm set which would take a bellows extension of about 300mm at infinity.

Schneider also has some telephoto lenses and Fuji made a 400mm telephoto lens. The Fuji and Nikon can be found used and are quite good. I would suggest staying away from the older tele Arton, Tele Rotelar, etc. lenses. These are older lenses and not nearly as good as the newer ones.

steve simmons
www.viewcamera.com

[squiress]

Thanks!

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

Rodenstock has abandoned telephotos for a while, and besides Nikon I know from catalogs that Fuji has a T series of telephotos, but I have hardly read any feedback here.
I have a 360 Schneider tele-Arton which is not that bad, the design is an improvement over previous tele-xenars (non-apo !)

Regarding the recent apo-tele xenar series by Schneider, there has been a very positive comment on the French LF forum by a professional photographer who has used the 450mm with a digital sensor, he was truly amazed by the quality delivered on a 645-sized detector for a lens that could cover almost a 11"x14"piece of film.
http://www.galerie-photo.info/forum/read.php?f=1&i=35808&t=35750#reply_35808

[Ralph Barker]

Maximum extension on the 45AX is 321mm, absent the use of the 100mm extension back. I use a Nikkor 360T with my 45AX, and it will focus to about 10-12 feet.

[steve simmons]

Looking for a good telephoto that will get me 480mm or better and still focus with existing bellows in my Toyo AX if such a lens exists.

360mm does not meet the man's requirements. 500mm would but he would be limited to focussing to about infinity. The Fuji 400, with a bellows equirement of about 264mm, might be worth considering and is longer than the 360 and quite possibly less expensive.

steve simmons

[squiress]

The Fuji 400 looks to be about max usable and still get some movements and closer than infinity focusing. I was able to locate one of those. More expensive than I'd like to pay, but what the hey ($1100)

Thanks to all.

Stew

[Matus Kalisky]

Well - I was in similar situation when looking for a long lens for my Tachihara 4x5. I was not concerned only about the focal length, but also about the weight - and - price. Fujinon T 400/8 was the main candidate, but then Osaka 400/8 showed up on the ebay and I did not resist getting it. With the price $285 and weight of 500g (including lens board) - it fits the bill nicely. I was of course concerned about the picture quality as the qulity control of the osaka/congo lenses is known not to be on the level of the big four, but after seing a couple of slides - I am fully satisfied. I may post some as soon as I have some reasonable scans - in a week or two.
The stability of the camera focused in infinity is quite good. It gets worse one the full draw (~ 310mm) is used (reproduction ratio ~ 1:5), but your Toyo should be much more stable, so this is may not be an issue. Just keep in mind that also the tele design of the lens allowes you to use a long lens with less bellows draw - but once you start to focus close than infinity you will quickly hit the end.

Matus

[Ed Richards]

$1100? Hmm, they seem to have gone up in price the last few years. I guess there is not much else out there, unless you can get an Osaka.

[Ted Harris]

You can also use a 360mm lens with a 'tophat' lensboard. Any longer than that and it is gonna get real tipsy.

[squiress]

You can also use a 360mm lens with a 'tophat' lensboard. Any longer than that and it is gonna get real tipsy.

'Tophat' would be the reverse of recessed I take it. I am likely to go the 400T route, but the Osaka approach might be great to see how much I really want to run down this road. Glass out of China is getting better all the time.:D

Thanks again to all.

Stew

[William Stone]

Stew -

I shoot my Toyo 45A with a Schneider 400mm tele-xenar compact (in Copal 3)

See:
www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=165&IID=1853

It's not a small lens, but your Toyo will handle it just fine. It's an excellent performer, but not inexpensive.

Good luck -- Bill

[Dave_B]

There is a nice set of Linhof style top hat lens boards available. They add about 35mm to the draw of the camera. I have my Nikkor 360-500-720 lens mounted in one and it all fits very nicely. The rear lenses fit inside the well with just enough room. For use with my Toyo 45AII, I have a Toyo-Linhof adapter which adds something like an additional 10mm to the length. The top hat lens boards can be gotten from Badger or Robert White, among others. The top hats are modular and one can buy faceplates for it with holes for various shutters as well as tubes of different lengths. They are not cheap but each lens only needs a new faceplate, not an entire lens board so you can save some there.
The Nikkor T 500 needs 350mm of draw at infinity and the Nikkor T 360 lens needs 261mm. My 45AII has 324mm of range plus the 45mm described above gives ~370mm. The 500mm lens is pretty marginal, the 360 is a dream to use on this camera. Both lenses are superb performers but not cheap or easy to find on the used lens market.
Toyo also makes an extension back (~100mm) that new costs an amazing amount of money ($530) for what it is. I have been looking for a used one for a long time and have only seen one used copy that was on Ebay which was part of a complete camera outfit. I have never seen a individual one for sale. I guess that the new cost means that there are not a lot of them out there to eventually end up on the used market.
Cheers,
Dave B.

[Dave_B]

One final note on the top hats. Jeff at Badger just confirmed this. One or more tubes can be stacked together. Also, the face plate can be screwed directly into the lens plate. The tubes come in lengths of 17 and 35mm and so one can have extensions of 0, 17, 35, 52, 70, 87, etc. At some point vignetting will occur but this set gives you a pretty cheap way to add extra length to your camera for a telephoto lens.
Cheers,
Dave B.

[Ted Harris]

The other point too is that with the top hat you don't have to reort to a telephoto lens, you can use regular long focus lenses and avoid the inherent problems of using LF telephotos.

[Don Hutton]

The other point too is that with the top hat you don't have to reort to a telephoto lens, you can use regular long focus lenses and avoid the inherent problems of using LF telephotos.
When you use normal lenses on tophat boards, you end up with exactly the same issues - the nodal point is moved forward of the axis on the front standard.

[naturephoto1]

When you use normal lenses on tophat boards, you end up with exactly the same issues - the nodal point is moved forward of the axis on the front standard.

Hi Don,

That may be true, but if there is enough exension with either the Telephoto lens or a "normal" lens you will generally experience less interference with the bellows and the rear cells when using rise/fall, shift, tilts, and swings.

Rich

[Don Hutton]

Hi Don,

That may be true, but if there is enough exension with either the Telephoto lens or a "normal" lens you will generally experience less interference with the bellows and the rear cells when using rise/fall, shift, tilts, and swings.

Rich


Personally, I have no issues using a telephoto lens - I'm just pointing out that using a top hat board does not "avoid" the issues - they may be slightly less, but they are still there. I'd also add that using a tophat board usually introduces in particular flare - which really can muck up a good shot.

[naturephoto1]

Personally, I have no issues using a telephoto lens - I'm just pointing out that using a top hat board does not "avoid" the issues - they may be slightly less, but they are still there.

Hi Don,

Agreed. One advantage though of using a top hat and "normal" lenses over a telephoto can be a reasonable weight savings. As an example, the weight of my Nikon f11 500T ED T lens + UV filter and Technika lens board is 31.8oz. To use the Fuji f12.5 450mm C MC lens on my Toho Shimo FC-45X I have an Ebony Top Hat with 105mm of extension. The weight of the Ebony Top Hat with 105mm extension (with flocking paper to elliminate flare), Fuji f12.5 450mm C MC lens and UV filter weighs 18.2oz. That is a weight savings of 13.2oz.

Rich

[stompyq]

I use a Fuji 400T lens in copal 1 shutter with my Wista DX. It's a very good lens and has enough movements for 4x5. My copy is very sharp and seems to go toe to toe with my fuji 240A. Camera shake is the only problem with this lens. You have to be very careful since the lens does make the wista slightly front heavy. I use a long cable release and wait patiently for the wind to die down.

[Don Hutton]

Hi Don,

Agreed. One advantage though of using a top hat and "normal" lenses over a telephoto can be a reasonable weight savings. As an example, the weight of my Nikon f11 500T ED T lens + UV filter and Technika lens board is 31.8oz. To use the Fuji f12.5 450mm C MC lens on my Toho Shimo FC-45X I have an Ebony Top Hat with 105mm of extension. The weight of the Ebony Top Hat with 105mm extension (with flocking paper to elliminate flare), Fuji f12.5 450mm C MC lens and UV filter weighs 18.2oz. That is a weight savings of 13.2oz.

Rich
Rich

I actually sold my Schneider 400 Apo Tele Xenar Compact and bought a top hat to use with my 450 Fujinon when I absolutely must have a long lens (my 45SU has 365mm of extension). However, while it saves a lot of weight, it's a very bulky item to have in my bag so just about never use it (and I did actually used to carry the heavy telephoto a fair bit). All I'm saying is that top hat panels are at best a "get by" solution. They are cheap and somtimes they enable you to get a shot you might not have. I sold my Schneider for around $1300 and had the Fujinon already because I use it on much larger formats, but if 4x5 was the only format I was shooting, I'd definitely prefer the tele to the "contraption".

[naturephoto1]

Hi Don,

I can appreciate that. I do not have any problem using the Fuji f12.5 450mm C MC on my Linhof Technikardan 45S with basically 500mm of bellows. But, with the Toho which has about the same bellows draw as your Ebony, I am not sure about putting as much weight on the front standard of the Toho with the Nikon 500mm T lens as I am having the added length of the Top Hat and the 450mm Fuji lens. Though bulky the Top Hat and Fuji 450mm lens is about as long as my Nikon 500mm. I frequently carry the Top Hat and Fuji Lens in a separate Photobackpacker Telephoto case.

Rich