Looking for David Roberts from Down Under

[Michael Kadillak]

Almost two years ago I sold a 48" Artar for $700 us to a photographer named David Roberts from Australia. After numerous excuses and promises to pay I have yet to see a dime. Given the fact that this is a pretty tight knit community in LF and ULF even in the more remote places around the globe, I was hoping that someone might know what has happened to David or how I might improve my odds of recovering from being a nice guy.

I guess I learned my lesson and I will never again extend my trust for any reason.

Thanks in advance.

[Pete Skerys]

I feel really bad about this - coz guess where I'm from? :( I buy a lot of stuff from os, and especially the US. Sometimes I really have a tough time convincing (state-side) sellers that it'll be OK. (One of my pet hates is the numerous xbay sellers who will not except os bids - they sure would make more $$ if they did. :mad: ) This sort of thing just undermines all such offers and expectations of trustworthiness. I hope this incident does not tar all of us down here with an undeserved negative attitude. For what it's worth i did an .au g**gle search on 'David Roberts' to no avail, but i suspect MK has probably already done this for the same result. I'll keep my ears/eyes open. But it's a big place down here - even for a 48" Artar.
Michael: Do you have any info re where this character might (even allegedly) reside or any other pertinent details?
pete

[alec4444]

Michael: Do you have any info re where this character might (even allegedly) reside or any other pertinent details?

Yes, surely you shipped the lens somewhere....

I think selling to Aussies is really not a big deal, so long as you have money in hand. If you do, what's the difference? Michael's kindness probably extended further in that the guy probably claimed to be "in a rush" and he obliged. So sorry, Michael...that's really crappy.

--A

[Don Hutton]

It appears that he is still affiliated to the Gold Street Gallery in Melbourne - perhaps one of the locals could pop in and get a contact number for Michael? Or better still arrive at this "workshop" in June: http://www.goldstreetstudios.com.au/The%20Gathering.htm

[Michael Kadillak]

The ironic thing about this is that David sold me an extension board for a camera prior to this dealing and we had extensive communications prior to him wanting to purchase the lens. Given the fact that he does workshops and exhibits I felt that he would be trustworthy. He told me after he received the lens that he had some financial misfortune but he had some work lined up and payment would be on its way. At the Goldstreet studio I have been in contact with a wonderful female representative who has tried to be helpful but all I have received are disconnected pieces of his exploits such as an assignment or personal trip to Canada about six to eight months ago but nothing about his whereabouts after that.

I guess that the lesson here is to be on guard and if you are selling (or for that matter buying) particularly overseas, just be careful.

Unless he has decided to live in a cave he will pop up his head at some point and when he does I hope to get this unfortunate set of circumstances resolved. Until then life goes on. Thanks guys!

[Pete Roody]

He has a workshop scheduled in June '07.

http://dfb05.tripod.com/07/wshoproberts.html

[Michael Kadillak]

Thanks Pete. Best news I have had on this situation in some time. If he is doing workshops he must be generating some revenues. I will be contacting them.

Cheers!

[alec4444]

He has a workshop scheduled in June '07.

http://dfb05.tripod.com/07/wshoproberts.html

Maybe if he can't afford to pay you the $700 he can send you his 8x20 camera instead....what an ass.

The other thing you can do is have him send the lens to me, and I'll pay you for it. :D

--A

[Eric James]

I emailed him a link to this thread - if this is the guy, maybe he can make good; if it's not, well...

[Jay Wolfe]

Eric,

That's really inappropriate of you to get involved with debtor. How Michael wants to approach this is his business.

[Eric James]

Jay,

What if this isn't the same David Roberts?

Michael made this a public matter. He could have simple posted: Does anyone know how I can get in touch with a photographer named David Roberts from Australia? While I don't fault Michael for his approach, I think that it behooves the rest of us to hold off on - what for the rest of us are - unfounded accusations.

There are multiple photographers with web sites on the Internet who share my name. Whether they are good people or not, I don't want to be confused with them. I would be none-too-happy if I Googled my name and found a URL resembling this one with fingers pointing at me. What we think about this person in Alex's link may be true, but at this time we don’t know.

I believe that we have a responsibility as representatives of the largeformatphotography.info forum; I think that we should hold off on tying a noose and hammering together a gallows. If this person is innocent of our forum's implication, he has a right to know what has been said; if he’s guilty he should know that I, and at least one other, think he's an ass - by emailing THIS David Roberts, I have accomplished at least one.

Michael,

Perhaps out of respect to you I should have stayed out of this, but the edit button has disappeared. Perhaps you know about the "neighbor to neighbor" page on photo.net. Here you can state in no uncertain terms: "some dirtball from Australia named David Roberts ripped me off". I hope you get paid for your lens.

Eric

[Michael Kadillak]

I do not have a problem Eric with forwarding this post. In that regard I did the same previously with a friend that had his Deardorf held hostage for five years and thankfully, he got his camera back. I feel that I have been more than patient and waited a long time before I resorted to this forum as a last ditch effort to put this mess behind me.

This is a great place to be with many wonderful people. Thanks

[Pete Skerys]

FYI I intend to be at both 'The Gathering', organised by Gold Street, and other events associated with the DAYLESFORD FOTO BIENNALE (sounds important, but i suspect it's rather diminutive). I'll make a point of looking out for Mr Roberts and if I do run into him I'll be asking some pointed questions. For what it's worth I noticed he's not one of 'us' (downunders) anyhow... phew, to that!
His bio, from the above link, states:
David Roberts grew up in Iowa, USA. For many years he lived with a Native American Indian community in a remote region of northern Saskatchewan, Canada, learning their language and ways of life. He came to Australia in 2000 and is exploring this beautiful country through the lens of his cameras. His photographic interests include landscape, architecture and portraiture.
The Gathering is in early June. I certainly hope he clears up this mess way before then. In the meanwhile perhaps his bio should read:
... exploring this beautiful country through the lens (he hasn't paid for) of his cameras.
pete

[Jim Rhoades]

Knowing Michael a little bit, I doubt very much that he posted this without knowing it's "this" David Roberts".

I have to say that Mike is the nicest person I've met in this world of LF/ULF.
That's to bad because otherwise he would pop up at this workshop let David see how big he is, just before choking the snot out of him.

David deserves to meet Mike with my personality.

[Mick Fagan]

I also will be attending and whilst there, will look out as well.

Mick.

[Michael Kadillak]

Knowing Michael a little bit, I doubt very much that he posted this without knowing it's "this" David Roberts".

I have to say that Mike is the nicest person I've met in this world of LF/ULF.
That's to bad because otherwise he would pop up at this workshop let David see how big he is, just before choking the snot out of him.

David deserves to meet Mike with my personality.

I have seen his photo before but had no idea that he was born in Iowa. And I even give folks credit for having it rough financially but my e-mail address, home address and phone have not changed. You would think that he would start feeling guilty and either send me back the lens or at least propose a payment plan as small token of accepting responsibility for a transaction that has not been completed.

In my younger days (pre wife and kids) I would have dreamed of the opportunity to track him down and make a surprise visit to see if there was a way to put this behind us face to face. But common sense and maturity have taught me many lessons about dispute resoluton over the years. I would rather walk away from this after all channels have been exhausted and move on as long knowing others have been warned.

Thanks

[Scott --]

Maybe those in attendance could inquire first as to this dude's lens kit. See if the lens in question is mentioned.


But common sense and maturity have taught me many lessons about dispute resoluton over the years. I would rather walk away from this after all channels have been exhausted and move on as long knowing others have been warned.

Michael, you're a far more patient, and mature, person than I.

[Michael Kadillak]

Maybe those in attendance could inquire first as to this dude's lens kit. See if the lens in question is mentioned.



Michael, you're a far more patient, and mature, person than I.


It is an 48" Apo Artar in barrel. A very large and heavy lens.

[Shen45]

Has it been established beyond doubt that the person mentioned in this thread is the same person who has defaulted on payment for a lens?

If not the same person, is a personal apology to be emailed to him considering the attack on his character? I checked in google and found a link to another David Roberts [photographer] in Tasmania but the link didn't load for me but it seems to indicate there may be more than one David Roberts here in Australia and if I was "a" David Roberts mentioned by association but not a purchaser of a lens from America I would be concerned at the attitude developing here on this list.

Just re read Michael's post and saw he seems to recognise a photo of the person??

[Michael Kadillak]

I also will be attending and whilst there, will look out as well.

Mick.

Please thank Ellie Young at the workshop for me. She has been more than gracious with attempting to let me know the whereabouts of David during this fiasco.

Thanks

[walter23]

The other very obvious possibility is that some scam artist looked up names of local photographers and picked out David Roberts as a persona to assume to give his transaction the appearance of legitimacy. I know that 48" Apo Artars aren't probably the first items on your average crook's list, but who knows? Sometimes people get inventive - I mean, I've seen fake Ebony sales on ebay.


Has it been established beyond doubt that the person mentioned in this thread is the same person who has defaulted on payment for a lens?

If not the same person, is a personal apology to be emailed to him considering the attack on his character? I checked in google and found a link to another David Roberts [photographer] in Tasmania but the link didn't load for me but it seems to indicate there may be more than one David Roberts here in Australia and if I was "a" David Roberts mentioned by association but not a purchaser of a lens from America I would be concerned at the attitude developing here on this list.

Just re read Michael's post and saw he seems to recognise a photo of the person??

[ViewCameraNut]

I was burned on an Australian deal as well. Buyer "claimed" item never arrived (sent economy surface) and even though I had a receipt proving it was shipped (they wanted a tracking #?), paypal chose to not take that as evidence and gave the guy his money back. I learned afterwards that the buyer had 3 previous packages sent that allegedly never arrived. Sellers beware and forewarned, even if you get paid up front you may not be covered when using paypal. Paypal wants a tracking number which you don't get with surface mail.

[Michael Kadillak]

Got a response from David telling me that I should not have involved a girl at one of the galleries that he knew. God bless her as she was the only one that had a clue as to where he was off to. David promised to send me the lens but I will believe it when I see it. Communications from David come infrequently at best. This is still unresolved.

[Jeremy Moore]

I was burned on an Australian deal as well. Buyer "claimed" item never arrived (sent economy surface) and even though I had a receipt proving it was shipped (they wanted a tracking #?), paypal chose to not take that as evidence and gave the guy his money back. I learned afterwards that the buyer had 3 previous packages sent that allegedly never arrived. Sellers beware and forewarned, even if you get paid up front you may not be covered when using paypal. Paypal wants a tracking number which you don't get with surface mail.

Ditto.

[Shen45]

Well guys I got "burned" by an American ebayer so does that make us even?

[roteague]

I was burned on an Australian deal as well. Buyer "claimed" item never arrived (sent economy surface) and even though I had a receipt proving it was shipped (they wanted a tracking #?), paypal chose to not take that as evidence and gave the guy his money back. I learned afterwards that the buyer had 3 previous packages sent that allegedly never arrived. Sellers beware and forewarned, even if you get paid up front you may not be covered when using paypal. Paypal wants a tracking number which you don't get with surface mail.

Being Australian has nothing to do with you being burned. Australia may not be perfect, but it is a fantastic place to visit, and is full of fantastic people. I feel safer and more comfortable traveling around Australia, than I ever felt traveling around the US. I have many Australian friends, and this comes across as a slap in the face.

[Randy H]

Being Australian has nothing to do with you being burned. .

I never read this as a warning against Australia. Or even as a warning about overseas sales.
I read it as the fact that even PayPal does not cover your rear on sales, and one person trying to recoup a particular loss. Maybe I missed something?

I have always told my kids, that if you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps is usually the one that got hit.

[Jeremy Moore]

oh, i have no problems with australians, just that sending surface mail internationally (even when requested by the buyer) can get you slapped around by paypal. Just something I didn't know.

[Ash]

I quite like ozzies. I was sent a fair condition LTM Summicron coll. for my rangefinder gratis by a forum member. I repaid the favour with a lens he was after though :) .. Overseas trades/sales have actually been smoother in some cases than my deals on the mainland here!

Good luck sorting this Michael, let us know what happens. I hope that girl didn't get any hassle from him.