Mac Pro users: Opinions

[Harley Goldman]

My Dell is prematurely on its last legs and I am considering the jump to a Mac Pro. Wanted to get opinions of Mac Pro owners and how they like the machine.

If I buy it, figure I would get the standard configuration, then upgrade to 4gb ram from a third party vendor and save some dough. Good strategy?

I mostly use Photoshop with files up to 600mb.

Any opinions or advice would be appreciated.

[Marko]

Hi Harley,

It is a good choice and you won't regret it. But I would recommend two things, both of which I did:

1. Buy the AppleCare package - it is extra money, but they will fix anything that might go wrong within 3 years and if they can't, they'll replace it. Since it is a laptop, chances of developing a problem are much higher than with a desktop and the costs are higher.

2. Buy extra memory from Apple at the same time you buy the laptop. Yes, it is also a bit more expensive, but that way, you have memory covered too. Memory failures are among the most frequent problems and one failure can easily recoup the entire investment.

Also, get an external, port-powered FW drive for easy backup and redundancy.

[Harley Goldman]

Marko,

Thanks for the advice. Appreciate it!

Just for clarification, I believe the Mac Pro is a desktop, not a laptop. I am looking at replacing my desktop.

Regards

[Gordon Moat]

I agree with Marko on the extended warranty and service, well worth the money in case of any problems. Unfortunately it works differently with memory purchases. When you buy memory from Apple, the warranty is only for that time period. When you buy memory from many third party vendors, it has a lifetime warranty. While memory failures do happen, they are not as common as harddrive failures or other problems, hence the ease at which many companies provide lifetime warranties.

Anyway, comparing prices is another thing you can do. There is a website that tracks memory pricing from most major vendors, and you might want to compare to what is available from Apple. Check out Ramseeker (http://www.ramseeker.com) for more on this.

Adobe is releasing CS3 very soon. I will be at a seminar on the whole creative suite later this week.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

[Marko]

Marko,

Thanks for the advice. Appreciate it!

Just for clarification, I believe the Mac Pro is a desktop, not a laptop. I am looking at replacing my desktop.

Regards

Yes, of course, I get easily confused with marketing lingo. If you are looking at the desktop, it is even better choice. :) What I have is the MacBook Pro and if you are getting a desktop, I take back what I said about memory - it is entirely standard and easy enough to change/add yourself.

Given the difference, Gordon is right, desktop memory indeed does not fail all that much. Laptop memory is a little different, because it tends to heat up much more than in a desktop.

[Tim Brazelton]

I also recommend getting AppleCare, especially if you transition over from PC as AppleCare can be an additional source of info if you get stuck. I've had Macs every since 1987 and I currently have about 20 working Macs in my company. In my opinion:

a. Always get AppleCare - on average it will pay for itself

b. Always get Apple memory. If you don't have Apple memory, if you call AppleCare with a problem you'll need to remove third party memory and reproduce the problem before AppleCare will deal with the problem. This was a recurrent hassle for us so now we use only Apple memory. The Apple memory has also been very problem free, including with huge large format files that tend to bring out the problems in substandard memory.

[Ted Harris]

b. Always get Apple memory. If you don't have Apple memory, if you call AppleCare with a problem you'll need to remove third party memory and reproduce the problem before AppleCare will deal with the problem. This was a recurrent hassle for us so now we use only Apple memory. The Apple memory has also been very problem free, including with huge large format files that tend to bring out the problems in substandard memory.

I've been using Mac's since 1987 and have never bought additional Apple memory, it is just too expensive. I do, however, make sure I buy " Apple Certified" memory from third party vendors and I have never had a tech ask me to remove the memory. This is over many many service calls on some 20+ laptop and desktop machines. BTW, I have only had one memory failure in that time and that was a defective chip that went up in smoke during installation.

I buy all my memory from Data memory Systems www.datamem.com .... I have found them to be the "Midwest Photo Exchange" of computer memory and storage ... ask for Bud.

[MJSfoto1956]

don't forget that the current version of Mac OS on the Core Duo harware can run Windows XP (assuming you have a legal copy of Windows XP to install) . Here is a link: http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/

The next version of Mac OS is reported to be able to run Windows in a separate virtual window as its own concurrent process.

This feaure will be a big win for you if you have any Windows-specific applications that don't work on Mac OS.

[QT Luong]

I'd wait a little as the current Mac Pros are at very the end of a product cycle. Many mac users get their memory from third party.

[fred arnold]

QT is probably right about waiting, especially as Intel has announced the quad-core chip with the same power envelope. OTOH, the 2.66 GHz is currently at a nice point price-wise.

Having said that, i got one for work, and I'm generally pleased with it. Standard desktop operations are notably faster, and rosetta has only coughed on some home-grown Fortran code. (even then it runs it just fine, it just writes extra : into the output) On the other hand, for heavy floating point (Quantum Chemistry) it's only marginally faster than a G5, and most of the improvement is from the extra two cores. Apple's scientific apps group thinks the problem is a mixture of old-style Fortran-77, and the somewhat beta state of the Intel compiler, which is improving. We'll see when I get some more modern codes built. The good news is that I can run one of those packages while still doing other work, and I haven't heard a fan come on yet. The thing is Quiet, as in barely louder than a Mini.

As for Windows compatibility, I've been running Win2K under a beta of VMWare, and it performs spectacularly. My last Windows machine was a P4-1.6, so even with all the debugging code turned on, it's far snappier than what I've been used to. If you've been running Photoshop native, I can't comment, but Word and Excel are more than acceptable, and having only given the VM one core, it doesn't slow down the rest of the machine.

Don't cheap out on RAM, but third-party should be fine. It does seem to need more RAM than a comparable G5 for similar operations, but my 2GB system doesn't seem to have many problems.

[Daniel Geiger]

There was a recent news story pointing out that extended warranties on electronics are THE most expensive insurance you can buy, i.e., a waste of money. I think it was on the CNN tech page, but can't recall for sure. Apple Care is such an extended warranty. Why would a computer manufacturer otherwise get into the insurance business, if it would not be a good revenue stream? Revenue means, that they earn more than it costs them, or in other words, the consumer overpays the service.

I've been using Macs since the plus, and we use them on long run applications such as DNA automated sequencing and phylogenetic searches, which typically run for 2-3 days straight. Not one problem. I have had a couple of minor repairs (with an 8 year old Powerbook 180, no surprise there), but on balance, its much cheaper to repair the computer (or to get a new one) than to buy apple care.

Get more RAM and get additional harddrives and do a RAID array to secure your data. As the Macpro desktop now finally has four HD bays, you can implement a RAID straight in the desktop box.

[Daniel Geiger]

P.S. If something is seriously wrong, it blows up within a year of regular warranty. Happened to me with a Dell XPS that had a hard drive crash with burning smell coming out of the box after only about 20 h of use within 2 months (rarely used computer to run Zeiss Axiocam on a compound microscope).

[Mike Lewis]

I bought a Mac Pro a couple of months ago, with the standard 1GB of memory. Currently I am using it with Photoshop CS in emulation mode. Here are my observations:

- The machine is very stable and very quiet, a stark contrast to the Power Mac G4 it replaced, which was an unusable piece of garbage IMHO. I still give the G4 a kick every now and then out of sheer malice.

- Photoshop is memory-bound; it almost doesn't matter what processor you have or how many cores-- it matters how much memory you have, and one gigabyte is not enough for editing 600MB image files. I put three extra SATA drives in the machine and striped them together as RAID0 for Photoshop swap; it didn't seem to help much. Get 4GB of memory minimum. You might want to buy the Apple memory; it comes with odd-looking cooling fins that will help keep the machine quiet, though you might find those elsewhere.

- In case you're curious, the big 30-inch monitor is too large to be a practical computer screen for everyday use, because it is larger than your field of vision. Couple that with OS X's screwy user interface that puts all pull-down menus at the top of the screen, and it becomes annoying. The big screen is great for movies, though, and for Google Earth (wow!). I would recommend the 23-inch screen.

- Finally, in two months of use I've locked the machine up only twice, which is amazing compared to the miserable G4. If Apple would only fix OS X's UI this would be a great computer.

[Marko]

There was a recent news story pointing out that extended warranties on electronics are THE most expensive insurance you can buy, i.e., a waste of money. I think it was on the CNN tech page, but can't recall for sure. Apple Care is such an extended warranty. Why would a computer manufacturer otherwise get into the insurance business, if it would not be a good revenue stream? Revenue means, that they earn more than it costs them, or in other words, the consumer overpays the service.

I've been using Macs since the plus, and we use them on long run applications such as DNA automated sequencing and phylogenetic searches, which typically run for 2-3 days straight. Not one problem. I have had a couple of minor repairs (with an 8 year old Powerbook 180, no surprise there), but on balance, its much cheaper to repair the computer (or to get a new one) than to buy apple care.

This is true in general. AppleCare is a little different since they cover only their own hardware, but they cover whatever you buy at the time of computer purchase as one bundle. So, if you buy a monitor or two, that's also covered.

The way it works is through spreading the risk over a number of users, just like with auto insurance. You may not have an accident (or theft or break-in) in years or even never, but on the rare occasion that you do need it, you'll sure be happy you have it. Especially with a laptop, motherboard or monitor.

[Brian K]

I have a Mac Pro and find it very stable and much faster with most applications. PS is not much faster though when CS3 comes out it will be more optimized for the Intel Macs.

I also recommend getting as much Mac ram as you can afford and get any extra hard drives or video card upgrades installed with the order. I got applecare with my purchase but I'm not sure if long term it was the most economical choice.

[Marko]

I got applecare with my purchase but I'm not sure if long term it was the most economical choice.

It is definitely more economical that way than the other way around. I never had to use mine and I never regretted having it either.

[Jack Reisland]

...another thing to consider if you are thinking of making a purchase soon, Apple is slated to release the latest version of OSX, Leopard, in June.

[Howard Slavitt]

I have a 2.66 mhz Mac Pro Intel Duo. It smokes with the new native applications like Lightroom. In comparison, the speed is good, but not great, with the non-native applications. It should be great with Photoshop CS 3 (which will be native). I am using it with 3 gb of RAM; with Photoshop CS 2 I could use a little more RAM. I purchased my RAM and 2 extra hard drives from Other World Computing. I've been buying all my RAM and hard drives from them for at least 5 years, and have never had a problem. Saves a lot of money. I do not typically buy extended Apple Care. I've had one out of warranty problem in the last 10 years or so of using desktop macs; I'm pretty sure it was after I had the machine 3.5 years, so I wouldn't have been covered by extended Apple Care either. I am thinking about getting another 2 gb of RAM, but will probably wait until after I get the new Photoshop CS 3 upgrade to see if I really need it.