Another scam alert

[domenico Foschi]

In the past days I have been contacted by this individual, John Ayinla, who claimed to be interested in purchasing some of my prints for an exhibit.
It smelled fishy since the beginning but I decided to go ahead and checking on his behaviour to learn how this scam "artists" are developing their "craft".
I haven't still met one of them that deserve the "artist" nomination.


Check this links about this guy.

http://www.nabble.com/RE:-vague-request-for-photos-from-Australia-p6259078.html
http://christo.absolutearts.com/artsforum/messages/57508/87962.html?1156269100

These are the emails I exchanged with the guy.

Hello,
My name is John Ayinla and I will like to purchase 3 Photo prints. I saw your Advert on photographersindex.com.
Can you provide photoprints with the following details: People/lifestyle/Landscape/wildlife photography on any print i.e colour/black&white matted on 12x24 , or the largest prints you have.

I am interested in purchasing any 3 of these specified. How much does each cost?

It is needed for an exhibition in Australia. Please let me know if you can provide these items, and the shipping cost for it. I will prefer FEDEX as shipping option.
I await your response soonest.
Regards,
John.



Hi John,

Is there something in my website you would like to purchase?
Thank you for the interest,

Domenico Foschi



Dear Domenico Foschi,
I checked out you website Your prints are quite fantastic, i really love your work, Please provide me with the following prints:
Image #1 - (under Leaves)
Image #3 - (under Leaves)
Image #7 - (under Tarnished Promises)
All matted out to 16X24,
I will be ordering these 3 prints from you for now, let me know what the total cost will be plus shipping for the 3 prints. i want the prints MATTED with window to 12x24 or 16x24, or the largest prints you have, not framed. I am interested in purchasing any of these specified.
The exhibition is slated for April 23rd but i will like to have them as soon as possible. let me know if there is anything else you will like to know, and please you can include what the total cost will be, so i can start making the arrangements for payment.
As regards payment I will give instruction to my clients there in the united states to send you a check in that amount, I will still be needing the address, and the name to which the payment will be sent to. Once i am in receipt of all the necessary information we can set up the transactions. I await your response soonest.
Regards,
John



John,

Thank you again for contacting me.

The sizes you are asking me are very unusual for the images you are requesting.
When you ask for 12x24 and 16x24 I wonder if you mean 20x24 and 16x20, in which case it means you need this images sizes matted in a bigger size, right?
12x24 is a size that doesn‚t corenspond to these images because it would be too long, for the 16x24 is the same but not as much.
Please advise so that I can send you a definitive estimate of the all package.
You say these images are for an exhibit, could you inform me in a little more details?
Also as payment I accept money order only to:
--
Domenico Foschi
7229 Painter Ave,# 4
Whittier, Ca 90602

I see that the time frame is not much but we will make it,

Sincerely,

Domenico Foschi



Thanks for the response Domenico Foschi,

What I want is the image size to be 12x20 and matted in a bigger size of 16x24. I hope this is clear now.

The exhibition is an art show, I am an art dealer and I offer only client based approached i.e the one-on-one personal meetings, I attend exhibitions too for clients, and right now i am teaming up with a partner in Australia to see to push my business a little from there. the name of his gallery is "vivid images" in Victoria The images are going to be displayed at the exhibition and hopefully get sold.

I will be expecting your definitive estimate of the all package. thankyou.

John Ayinla

[domenico Foschi]

Happened just now.

Dear Domenico, I have taken note of the sizes, there is no problem. I will order frames with according to the sizes you quoted. so you can go ahead and give me the estimate.
John



Hi John,
I have calculated the costs of matting and shipping, and the amount will be at USD 1800.00.
Thank you for the interest,

[Scott --]

The whole "my clients in the US will send payment" thing sounds a little wacko...

[PViapiano]

It will always be impossible to tell legit offers from bad, but always make it a practice to get the money up front and cleared first...then send the photos.

[Dave Parker]

Seems to me, it would be very easy, to decline to do business with him at this time and move on...if you have found information that makes you feel uncomfortable, that would seem to be the prudent course of action.

I just send a polite note back, telling them I am not interested at this time.

Dave

[alec4444]

I'd continue to wait for the check and hold off on any printing etc. until the check was received and cleared. Worst case scenario is the guy sends a bogus check. Best case scenario is that the guy sends a check and it clears. Either way you haven't expended a dime until full payment is received.

People can run into strange situations from time to time. If you want to judge how people run their lives or their business, that's cool. But you might lose a sale or two in the process.

I agree this sounds weird, but it's not really a "scam" as of yet.

--A

Oh, I see I just reiterated what "PViapiano" said in a more verbose way....oops.

[Ron Marshall]

Just state that you want payment by bank draft or certified check. Make sure even if it is certified that the bank clears it fully before shipping anything.

[Scott Davis]

I agree about the suspicious factor of "I will get a third party to pay you, if you ship it to me in (name foreign country here)". I'd adopt a paypal-like policy with these things - payment must originate from an address the same as the shipping destination. I had someone try to pull a fast one on me like that from a camera I had listed on APUG. I told him the camera would ship when the USPS Money Order had cleared my bank. I never heard another word from him.

Another giveaway that this is at best suspicious is the poor English skills of your correspondent. I'd expect an Aussie to make the occasional spelling mistake, but not have that hard a time with syntax.

[John Berry]

Or you could play the fish for a while?

[domenico Foschi]

I'd continue to wait for the check and hold off on any printing etc. until the check was received and cleared. Worst case scenario is the guy sends a bogus check. Best case scenario is that the guy sends a check and it clears. Either way you haven't expended a dime until full payment is received.

People can run into strange situations from time to time. If you want to judge how people run their lives or their business, that's cool. But you might lose a sale or two in the process.

I agree this sounds weird, but it's not really a "scam" as of yet.

--A

Oh, I see I just reiterated what "PViapiano" said in a more verbose way....oops.


Alec,
that's exactly what I am planning to do.
I wrote him I will only accept payment as money order to be on the safe side.
He sent me another email telling that the price was too high, so I went down a bit and he accepted.
The devil is in the details...;)

I do have a Paypal account but I rather not use it for many factors.
I will keep you posted in any case so that if you get contacted by this fellow you will know how to act.
If the man is honest, after having informed you, I will ask to delete the thread.
We'll see what happens next.

[Rob_5419]

If the man is honest, after having informed you, I will ask to delete the thread.

And is that how you treat a would-be-client?

It does beg the question of whose ethics and integrity is being questioned.

I hope it works out for you and him in any case.

Best wishes.

[domenico Foschi]

And is that how you treat a would-be-client?

It does beg the question of whose ethics and integrity is being questioned.

I hope it works out for you and him in any case.

Best wishes.

Bob,
I don't know if you have checked the 2 links I posted at the beginning of the thread, but all the indications show to be on the alert.
Thank you for your wishes.

[roteague]

And is that how you treat a would-be-client?

I would expect a would be client to at least know what your product is.

Here is what he wrote in the email: "Can you provide photoprints with the following details: People/lifestyle/Landscape/wildlife photography on any print i.e colour/black&white matted on 12x24 , or the largest prints you have."

It is pretty obvious he is fishing and does not have any idea what domenico's product is.

[Rob_5419]

Bob,
I don't know if you have checked the 2 links I posted at the beginning of the thread, but all the indications show to be on the alert.
Thank you for your wishes.

Thanks Domenico: I already have. I don't disagree that you should be alert.

I do find it disturbing that a photographer might post details of a potential client's name and details, knowing that there is some chance that the client might be honest (however slim). That's all.

[Brian Ellis]

I've won the British lottery three times in the last two weeks. Of course it's in a different amount each time but by my calculations I'm now worth about $50,000,000 in U.S. dollars. I haven't responded to any of the emails informing me of my winnings because I have a suspicion that it might be a scam.

[David Spivak-Focus Magazine]

I guess the only part that sounds fishy to me is that he must have those prints ASAP and seems a little sketchy on the money part of it....

[domenico Foschi]

Thanks Domenico: I already have. I don't disagree that you should be alert.

I do find it disturbing that a photographer might post details of a potential client's name and details, knowing that there is some chance that the client might be honest (however slim). That's all.

True, I agree.
I made a mistake by making this person's name public. My concern that some member of this community could also be targeted was more immediate than my concern of keeping this person's name private until I would find out the truth.
Thank you for pointing the finger at that. You live and learn.

[Tony Karnezis]

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

I've been contacted by similar scammers. I usually send them an email telling them "Go f#%k yourself," and I don't hear back from them. Any legit businessman would be outraged; they are not. Case and point.

One thing is for sure--DO NOT CASH THE CHECK if you're suspicious, especially if it's for more than the item is worth.

http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams.html

Quoting from the web site:

FAKE CASHIER CHECKS & MONEY ORDERS ARE COMMON, and BANKS WILL CASH THEM AND THEN HOLD YOU RESPONSIBLE when the fake is discovered weeks later.

Most scams involve one or more of the following:
* inquiry from someone far away, often in another country
* Western Union, Money Gram, cashier's check, money order, shipping, escrow service, or a "guarantee"
* inability or refusal to meet face-to-face before consumating transaction

Who to contact if you suspect fraud or a scam:
* FTC toll free hotline: 877-FTC-HELP (877-382-4357)
* FTC online complaint form (www.ftc.gov)
* Canadian PhoneBusters hotline: 888-495-8501
* Internet Fraud Complaint Center (www.ic3.gov/)
* Non-emergency number for your local police department.

[Mick Fagan]

As the supposed business is in Australia, ask for their ABN (Australian Business Number)

Virtually every business in this country needs this number to do business with almost any other business and also for taxation purposes with the government.

The ABN is a 11 digit number.

Once (and if) you receive this number go here:-

http://www.abr.business.gov.au/(w4yhpfn1gkp0pfnbffidwoqu)/content.aspx?page=abnapplication

Look in the top right hand corner of the page and put the number in, then click search.

Almost instantly the public information will come up.

Every receipt that every business hands out, will normally have their ABN on. Any receipt with a value in excess of $50 must have the ABN on. We actually call them Tax Invoices, government speak for a receipt.

Mick.

[Brian C. Miller]

Go to 419 Eater (http://www.419eater.com), and learn. And laugh your buns off.

Also, if you have an alternate email account, email the guy from that account as if you've just received one of his inquiry emails. A normal businessman will ask what's up, a scammer will think that its a scam they forgot about.

And why would an Australian gallery be cluelessly asking about prints from a US source? And third-party payments? I would have said "no deal" when the buyer said the price was too high.

[dailyframe]

Hi folks - I am not a large format guy, but I found this thread because I was doing DD on this guy Ayinla, and I am glad his name was included. My BS meter is really pinging now that I see his name referenced so many times on the net. He has been civil to this point, but I did find it strange that an art buyer would not know the material of the artist he was buying from. His approach email was to the letter compared to the others I see on this thread. Thanks for posting the details - we can all benefit from the knowledge.

Best e-gards,
Steve Cherry
www.stevencherry.com

[Brian K]

Whenever you are dealing with an overseas print sale there's always one rule to follow, get paid first. Checks, money orders, etc are ok as long as the buyer can wait 1-2 weeks for the payments to clear. Scam artists always seem to have really short time frames. If you think the buyer is legit, you can always arrange for a wire transfer. You need your banks code, which you'll have to ask them for, and have to supply your account number. This is a very common way to do international transactions and your bank will be helpful. I also google the buyers name and business and have discovered a scam already this way (a nigerian art collector!, are there ANY honest people in that country?)

The alternatives are to become a credit card accepting business or to have a gallery represent you that also accepts credit cards. But even then there is always the possibility that the CC number is stolen, however I think the CC company indemnifies you if you have used their procedures properly and had gotten an authorization from them. I am not 100 percent certain about this last point so check with the CC company.

Also remember that if you ship work overseas there will be customs tariffs or duties and they can be substantial, make certain in negotiations that it is clear who is paying the tariffs as well as shipping costs.

[CG]

Hi all,

Protect yourselves. Artists have little protection other than their wits.

If it stinks, as the communication to the original poster did, be very careful.

If it's a new gallery, seek out other artists from that gallery and get their say on the gallery. Contact other galleries in the region. They usually will not say directly that Gallery X is a stinker, but the silences and evasions will be eloquent.

I did due diligence on a much, much more credible inquiry about my work. A newish gallery, who turned out to be a great contact, and who sells my work and sends me checks etc... Good people.

If you do not know who it is - check it out. If they are far away enough to be beyond the reach of practical application of law - another continent say - then your standard of proof probably should be more demanding.

Good luck,

C

[dailyframe]

Ok - Last post on this for me, but thought you'd like to know how things progressed. I kept getting emails from this guy asking me to provide proofs of the prints etc, and after reading these threads and several others on the web, I wrote him back and told him I was ceasing action on his offer to buy because I had uncovered too much suspicious and negative feedback during my due diligence. I never got a reply from him which is further indication to me that he is just a scam artist (not proof, but good indication). Coincident or not, I received a pretty heavy hacking attack on my server gallery right after that last email, and then a email from an anonymous user at domain qq.com saying I was "owned." Real nice. I highly recommend not engaging this person in any back and forth via email because it looks to me like they are quite malicious and childish. Best to just ignore.

[itsdonny]

This is a scam. I too was contacted by John Ayinla because he wanted 3 prints. I knew it was a scam to begin with so I played along. Funny he sent me a money order for $5,000 USD more than I had asked for. : ) This is part of the scam for those of you who don't know. He sent me a fake US Bank money order by the way. Not a very good fake either.:)

[Kirk Gittings]

I was approached by this guy too. He was so uninformed and clueless about the photo/gallery business that it was a dead giveaway from the start. Unlike Domenico I just blew it off. Its good to expose these people.

The only thing about this that bugs me though is........if it is a scam why would he negotiate a lower price from Domenico?? Why bother? To make himself sound more like a dealer?