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alec4444
5-Mar-2007, 19:28
The recent post in the For Sale forum prompted me to look into packard shutters as a convenient way to make use of barrel lenses. I understood the concept of the "generic shutter", but I didn't really quite understand how to put it to use.

Then I saw on eBay the "Deardorff 6" Packard Shutter Assembly" (item #140092748119 ) and I had a better understanding of how these work. Now I want to buld something similar for my Wisner.

Found out that Packard still makes shutters of various sizes (http://www,packardshutter.com/) which is great. Sure, they're a bit more expensive than the $38 bonanza that was listed in the For Sale forum, but they're new and I can get any size/model I want. It's the construction of the box that the shutter fits into that has me a bit confused. I've studied the Deardorff pics pretty well but I think I'm missing something.

I'm looking at this like a recessed lens board box with the shutter on the inside, but that leaves no room for the air hose. I could build a lens extension box but then I'm not sure where to put the shutter....any ideas on this? The lensboard size is 5 3/16... So I'm imagining I need a 5" shutter mounted onto a lensboard, in the back of a box that would allow me to attach another lensboard.

...now I'm just sounding assinine. :(

Thanks!
--A

resummerfield
5-Mar-2007, 19:57
I know what you are talking about, and I made something similar for an Arca. I made a box for my Packard that mounts between the front standard and bellows. Because the shutter was several mm behind the lens element, I opted for a large 5-inch shutter hole which required an 8.5-inch od shutter. The Packard is installed in a box of -inch Baltic birch plywood, and I cut recesses in the plywood so that the total od is 9.5 x 9.5 x 1.75-inches. Since the box is larger than the bellows, I can mount the Instantaneous Pin outside the bellows, and I have also mounted a PC socket for a sync cord. I have brackets on both faces of the box, and it clips on and off the front standard like the bellows, so I can use it as necessary. Packard (and others) sell a hollow tube to penetrate the box for the air hose. It is bulky, and not the best solution, but for certain lenses it is the only way.

alec4444
5-Mar-2007, 20:32
I know what you are talking about, and I made something similar for an Arca. I made a box for my Packard that mounts between the front standard and bellows.

Ahhhhh, that's the key. It didn't go in front of the front standard, but between the bellows & the front standard. That makes a lot of sense...


Since the box is larger than the bellows, I can mount the Instantaneous Pin outside the bellows...

Another good tip. I'm sure it's not as "cosmetically pretty" but it sure is functional. I suppose I can find out from Packard the distance from that mechanism to the outside edge. I'd want the shutter to be centered in the box and still have the pin accessible.


I have brackets on both faces of the box, and it clips on and off the front standard like the bellows, so I can use it as necessary.

Ok, I'm looking at my front standard and I see how it would mount on that side....but how did you mount it to the bellows? Did you duplicate the front standard mechanism on the other side of the box?

Eric, can't possibly tell you how much this helps...thanks so much! By any chance do you have some photos of your contraption?

Cheers!
--A

resummerfield
5-Mar-2007, 21:22
.......but how did you mount it to the bellows? Did you duplicate the front standard mechanism on the other side of the box?.......On the bellows side I routed-out a recess for the bellows frame and made a simple metal slider to lock it in. On the front standard side, I bought an Arca metal frame that comes on the end of the bellows. On most cameras those frames are pretty simple, and you can make one. On the Arca it was more complicated, so I just bought one. I had to space this frame about 5mm to get the necessary clearance to snap the box into the front standard.

I don't have a pic yet. But when I get a picture, I'll PM you.

Ash
6-Mar-2007, 04:27
I spent ages last night laying in bed trying to work out a new mechanism for a second packard shutter. I got a mod on the forum here somewhere for how I use my packard with barrel lenses on a Cambo SC. I got lucky and a cheap packard came with the same diameter shutter as the lensboard's hole. I literally drilled a hole in the corners, attached bolts, and everything sandwiches on the bolts (barrel lens in a block-like lensboard, then the shutter, then the lens board).

My new plan is how to do something more like that lens-box thing. Biggest problem is lens element depth. If you have the box too deep you may end up with vignetting, if it's too shallow then you'll need a spacer mechanism to allow sunk lenses.

I've updated my signature to show the thread. That way people can always link to it if needed :)

alec4444
6-Mar-2007, 05:54
My new plan is how to do something more like that lens-box thing. Biggest problem is lens element depth. If you have the box too deep you may end up with vignetting, if it's too shallow then you'll need a spacer mechanism to allow sunk lenses.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was pondering last night. I figure that if I get a really large shutter diameter and keep the box to less than 3" I should be fine. My camera is 11x14 so most lenses will be slightly longer anyway.

If you wanted to be fancy about it, you could model your box after the Zero Image 4x5 cameras. They build additional box frames that attach to one another to extend the box as necessary.

Thanks for the link with the pics! That definitely looks like an easier path...though I'm in hot pursuit of the box thingy...

--A

Ash
6-Mar-2007, 07:53
Alec, my method was on the 'quick-cheap-easy' mentality. It took half an hour staring at the components to work out how to put them together, 10 minutes to get the material, and about an hour's work to have everything put together.

Price for the shutter was minimal, second hand an all that ;)
Price for wood - mdf off-cuts
Price for lenses - the ones in the diagram were from a set of about 4 I bought for £60

Scott Davis
6-Mar-2007, 08:13
... I can mount the Instantaneous Pin outside the bellows, and I have also mounted a PC socket for a sync cord...

How exactly do you have the PC socket rigged up? I tried wiring a sync cord to the terminals on my Packard, but it never seems to fire, even when I have the instantaneous pin installed (I made my pin out of a 3/32" brass rod). Diagrams and/or photos would be much appreciated!

Ash
6-Mar-2007, 08:45
I'm trying to work out the best way to use a similar 'box' method, without making the same thing necessarily. The other camera uses a larger square opening for lens boards, so the packard shutter I have on the cambo didn't quite fit as 'light tight' over the same area.

My next packard shutter may be larger than the previous, rendering a direct transfer of that original mod useless. So I'm thinking of making a bracket/frame around the shutter on the front of the camera.

It's all depending on whether the shutter will be behind the front standard this time - the only thing stopping the original mod from having an internal shutter was the shape of the front standard couldn't hold the shutter behind the lensboard AND have the extra hole that needed drilling for the tubing. That's not a problem this time.

My plan now:

Get the shutter, attach it either in front or behind the front standard.
Build a frame, have the 'lens blocks' from the original mod slot into the frame.
make a locking mech at the corners of the frame to hole the blocks in place.


That way, the packard assembly will use blocks, not panels. It should blow the vignetting worries out of the water. The rear element will always be right next to the shutter, just like with the first mod AND I won't need new lens-mounts. Everything should interchange. I hope!!

alec4444
6-Mar-2007, 09:14
I've scheduled the assistance of a friend with solid engineering and woodworking skills (nevermind the crazy cool shop as well) to help me out with this in May. Can't wait, it'll be a really fun project. Now it's just a matter of doing some design mockups and purchasing all the materials.

Is there any difference (say, from a feature perspective) between the new Packard shutters and the older ones? And is the "instantaneous" setting always 1/25 or are there more speeds / way to adjust that?

Thanks!
--A

Ash
6-Mar-2007, 09:16
The instant speed is dependant on how much pressure you place on the bulb, and AFAIK the family who made packard shutters has stayed true to the original manufacture as much as possible. New ones are just....new.

Scott Davis
6-Mar-2007, 09:18
From my understanding, the speed of the "instantaneous" setting varies between 1/10th and 1/25th based on shutter size. For the little shutters, it is 1/25th or pretty close. For the bigger ones (3 1/2"+ opening), it is more like 1/15th or maybe even a little slower than that.

resummerfield
6-Mar-2007, 10:05
....Is there any difference (say, from a feature perspective) between the new Packard shutters and the older ones?.....I have a new one, and an original one from the '50s. Exact same size and internal construction. The only difference was how the sync cord attached to the shutter--the older one used screw terminals, and the new one used slip-on sleeves. Since the sync cord is included with the shutter, it makes no difference. And once I cleaned-up the old shutter, it worked like new.