Newcomer

[McCallister]

Hello all. I was hoping to get a little guidance about leaping into LF. I currently have a Dig SLR, but after lots of reading, think I want to give LF a shot. I would mainly shoot landscapes & don't mind lugging gear to an extent. Here is what I thought about starting with. Money is somewhat a restarint, but open to options. I thought about a this set up http://www.adorama.com/TY45CX150.html Does this sound like a OK start or do you think the lense is a little long for most landscapes? Aside from needing things like film holders, dark cloth & loupe is there anything else I need. Not sure if what they list as included is really it. If so I guess I'll need a focus screen & mount to connect to tripod?

I know I am diving into this blind, but I guess I got to start somewhere. REally excited to try! Thanks for the help. :)

[Sheldon N]

Welcome aboard! Glad to hear you're thinking about LF, it's a great choice.

The kit you pointed to is a fine starting choice in terms of functionality and the focal length of the lens, but you could could get a MUCH better value by buying used.

A good used monorail camera can be had for anywhere between $200-350. A good used 150mm lens (and better quality than the 150mm lens in your chosen kit) can be had for $250-300. With some shopping and a little bit of luck, it's not too hard to find a full camera/lens/etc combination in good condition for around $450-500.

If you don't want to hassle with the risks of Ebay, then I would recommend the following - Call Jim at Midwest Photo Exchange 614-261-1264 (www.mpex.com). He is the best guy available to deal with on used large format gear, will give you great advice about what you should choose to get started, will make sure that it specifically meets your needs, and will either have it in stock or find it for you. He's essentially the crack dealer for all of us addicted to used Large Format gear. :)

The fine folks here are a welcome resource as well.

[Vick Vickery]

Don't forget all the extras you're going to need when deciding on your budget for your new camera. A kit that includes a good lens and a view camera is a good starting point, but the kit you're looking at and most others won't include everything you need. A few items needed (and I'll, no doubt, leave several things out that others find indespensable) will include a heavy duty tripod, a good exposure meter, a dark cloth or other means of blocking light from the groundglass back while focusing, a few sheet film and/or roll film holders, a small tape measure, a cable release, a magnifier to help focus and a small flash light for all sorts of uses. Have fun and look for help here whenever you need it!

[Capocheny]

Hi McCallister,

Congratulations on the decision to get into large format photography... you're about to enter a world of fun!

Firstly, I'd second Sheldon's comments about buying used or approaching Jim at Midwest to help you set up a kit. He's as honest as the day is long. Another retailer who is great to deal with is Jeff at Badger Graphics (www.badgergraphic.com)

Secondly, you might want to do some reading prior to making a decision as to the type of camera you're looking to buy. Look for books written by Steve Simmons, Jack Dykinga, or Larry Stone.

Thirdly, a monorail can be a lot heavier than some field cameras available in the marketplace. Toyo also makes a field camera that would serve your needs well.

Rather than simply "jumping in" I'd suggest you do some reading and due diligence on this matter. In the end, you'll be happy that you did! :)

Good luck.

Cheers

[McCallister]

Thanks all. I appreciate the support. I have to say that I can tell right away that you all are much nicer & supportive than the other photography forums I've been. It is a nice change.

I do not feel comfortable buying over ebay so I'll definitly check out Midwest Photo. What do you all think is a good length lens to start with? I was thinking around 135 or so if I buy items seperate.

So what type of photography do you all do?

[Ron Marshall]

Hello McCallister, welcome to the forum. Lots of good advice has been offered below.

There are many excellent deals available on used equipment. Almost all of my equipment was purchased used. I saved a tremendous amount. KEH Camera Brokers, Midwest Photo Exchange and sometimes Badger graphics have very good deals on a wide variety of used equipment. I have purchased used equipment from all numerous times and have always been completely satisfied.

I have a light 4x5 monorail, a Toho 45, which is 3 lb and folds very compactly. It is suitable for hiking with. For landscape a field camera is fine, just make sure that it is less than about 7lb.

If you plan to hike with your camera you will need a light, carbon fiber, tripod, and a light weight head. They are pricy, but worth it in the long run.

The 150mm is a good lens to start with. One lens is all you need to start. It takes a while to determine what focal lengths suit you style and subjects.

A basic kit is:

Camera, tripod, tripod head, lens, darkcloth, loupe, lightmeter, filmholders, film.

Some prefer a 135, some a 150 as a "standard" lens. Some have nothing between a 90 and a 210.

If I was buying a lens kit now from scratch I would go for 90-150-240. But 90-135-210 would also be fine.

[j.e.simmons]

I'd say just buy whatever good lens you can get at a good price. I shot 4x5 for many years with only a 210 lens, for instance, although most folks prefer something in the 135-180 range. Shoot with whatever you get for a while - even a year or so - and then review your shots. Do you wish you'd had a shorter lens more often - a longer one? Large format is really about finding the equipment that fits your individual vision, and that can be a much slower process than with smaller formats.

Welcome to the club.
juan

[Brian Ellis]

I think that particular camera is not only too heavy to carry around any distance, it's also more camera than you need for landscapes. You can buy a new Tachihara or Shen Hao for $595 from MidWest, either of which are very good cameras for landscapes and most other things. The Tachihara weighs half of what the Toyo you're looking at weighs. The Shen Hao weighs more than the Tachihara but still about 2 pounds less than the Toyo. I think buying used is a great idea for cameras at the higher end (Linhof, Ebony, Canham, et al) but when you can buy new for $595 I think it's better to do so, the couple hundred dollar savings in buying used cameras in this price range aren't big enough to justify buying used but that's just my opinion.

[steve simmons]

Before buying a camera may I suggest some reading.

Getting Started in Large Format

which is a free article in the Free Articles section on the View Cmera web site

www.viewcamera.com

there are several other articles there a well that might be helpful.

When selecting a large format camera it is all about features, features, features. This article will help you decde what features are important to you.

thanks

steve simmons
publisher
View Camera Magazine - The Journal of Large Format Photography
www.viewcamera.com

[McCallister]

Thanks for all the input. Maybe "leaping" into LF blind was the wrong choice of words. I have been reading up on LF for about a half year now. Reading about how swings, shifts, rise, affect an image, the basics of how light rays form an image, & other stuff in "The Camera" by Ansel. I will definitly continue reading, but I think I am to the point that I need to get out there & experience it.

I had looked very seriously into the Tachihara, but am kind of affraid that it is a little to limited in its movements to be able to grow into it. Do you really use any of the extreme movements any way that a Tachihara does not allow in landscape? IF not, then I will likely look into the Tachihara.

As for a lens coverage amount, a 4x5 needs about 163-65 MM diameter circle. I know that this wouldn't afford me any moevments. What would bethe minimum image circle lens to have in conjunction with the Tachihara, 185mm maybe? I also notice the Tachihara does not have any shift movement... I assume I'd not really need this with landscape?

[steve simmons]

Get one of these books

Using The View Camera that I wrote
User's Guide to the View Camera by Jim Stone
Large Format Nature Photography by Jack Dykinga

IMHO you could use some more basic info before buying any equipment. Try your local library.

The basic movements you need are, IMHO, swing and tilt front and rear. With these movements there are workarounds to get shift front and rear.

If you can find a copy of the Ja/Feb 07 issue of View Camera on the newsstand there is a very good article on camera movements for landscape photography.

steve simmons

[Ron Marshall]

Don't consider lens circle in terms of a certain camera, you might change cameras in the future. For general landscape use I rarely use more than about 5 degrees of front tilt, and more than about 25mm of front rise. I rarely use other movements. The chart below is from the front page of this site. It lists the image circles for modern lenses: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF4x5in.html.

Notice that most of the lighter weight 135mm and 150mm lenses have image circles in the range of 195mm to 230mm. From the chart, this corresponds to a rise in landscape orientation of 29mm to 50mm. You might occasionally want to use lots of front rise to keep vertical subject lines parallel. But for most landscape shooting an image circle of 200mm is sufficient.




Thanks for all the input. Maybe "leaping" into LF blind was the wrong choice of words. I have been reading up on LF for about a half year now. Reading about how swings, shifts, rise, affect an image, the basics of how light rays form an image, & other stuff in "The Camera" by Ansel. I will definitly continue reading, but I think I am to the point that I need to get out there & experience it.

I had looked very seriously into the Tachihara, but am kind of affraid that it is a little to limited in its movements to be able to grow into it. Do you really use any of the extreme movements any way that a Tachihara does not allow in landscape? IF not, then I will likely look into the Tachihara.

As for a lens coverage amount, a 4x5 needs about 163-65 MM diameter circle. I know that this wouldn't afford me any moevments. What would bethe minimum image circle lens to have in conjunction with the Tachihara, 185mm maybe? I also notice the Tachihara does not have any shift movement... I assume I'd not really need this with landscape?

[McCallister]

Thanks for all the feedback. I think I need to just go & buy a cheap camera used set up so I can get out there. I have done so much reading, but you could ask me what the effect tiliting the rear does & if I hadn't read about that part in a month or so, I may not remember exactly. Now if I actually see what happens right in front of me on the ground glass the effect, someone could ask me what the effect is a year later & I'd remember. I am one that learns visually so much quicker. I think that is part of the reason that photogrpahy appeals to me.

I was looking at a Fuji 135 f5.6 Fuji-W Seiko - Coated for $189.00 at MPEX. This seems really cheap compares to the other at that MM. Does this lens not have a shutter or something? Also wondering what "seiko" is?

Again, thanks for taking the time to respond all.

[naturephoto1]

What is mentioned as Seiko is the Shutter maker, not Copal, Compur.... They are/were the same company as Seiko watches.

Rich

[McCallister]

Thanks. Is Seiko something I should stay away from as far as a reliability & qualtiy?

[Bob Gentile]

"... I think I need to just go & buy a cheap camera used set up so I can get out there..."I think you're right on. Most people learn best by doing. The sooner you get out there and take some pics, the sooner your learning will begin to solidify.

[Ernest Purdum]

Seiko shutters are very high quality and high reliability items. A lens with a Seiko shutter is going to be older, though, than one with a black rimmed Copal shutter. The price should be lower accordingly.

[Dave_B]

M-
We were all newbies once and this forum welcomed us all. Welcome to you. This is a good place to both learn and teach. Enjoy your new hobby.
Cheers,
Dave B.

[McCallister]

I have been looking at the MPEX site. I am thinkign about getting the fuji 135mm 5.6W for $249. It is in 8+ condition. I'd assume the 8+ means it just has cosmetic blemishes? I assume this lens is also in a 0 shutter. There isn't much detail on the site so was hoping someone knew this along with the image circle size. Again, it would be on a 4x5(likely a tachihara).

Just a curious question. How old were all of you when you first got into LF? I think I may be kind of secluded from most in LF at my age since the craze is the newest digital for my generation.

Thanks! :)

[naturephoto1]

This is the link to MPEX's grading system:

http://www.mpex.com/EquipmentRatings.aspx

Rich