Half-Plate/Plate Camera (101 hints for a retirement project....) [Archive]

Rob_5419

25-Feb-2007, 16:37

I guess there isn't much of a market for the old half-plate or plate camera format left especially with film choice in this format being very restricted to a few brands.

Tinkering around with the idea of getting a half-plate camera, I accidentally bought one that I thought would sell for a lot more (this is how fast these vintage cameras are depreciating!) so I now have a half-plate camera to play with for my fun retirement projects ;)

Anyone use full-plate or half-plate cameras here? The one I have is a standard half-plate (6.5 in x 4.25in) of the original glass-plate size. I don't shoot much in such long rectangles so this is going to be a challenge.

One option is to convert the back into an international 4x5" back and use it that way with a standard 5x4" enlarger.

Staying with the half-plate size seems challenging - the film prices are a bit pricey (due to lack of demand) although the old aesthetic of the half-plate is appealing enough to try this with a few 5x7" DDS.

Haven't decided yet, and am just playing around with ideas. Feel welcome to add any hints or advice you've found helpful for using half or whole plates. I guess if I enjoy using a half-plate camera, then I'll be looking towards getting into a full-plate camera, even if it's going to be contact printed only...

Oren Grad

25-Feb-2007, 17:03

There's a very small (but vocal ;) ) group of whole-plate fans here, self included. It's my favorite sheet film format. I've been using primarily an Eastman No. 2, but more recently also a Musashino Rittreck View with a whole-plate ("yatsugiri") back. If you search on "6.5x8.5" you'll find other relevant threads.

In the US, Ilford's annual round of accepting orders for odd-size sheet films continues until late this week. Once again, 6.5x8.5 is offered in both FP4+ and HP5+.

Sal Santamaura

25-Feb-2007, 18:35

Another wholeplate user here. Search as Oren suggested and/or for his or my name and you'll find plenty of related threads, both here and at APUG. Order lots of 6.5x8.5 film from Ilford!

Rob_5419

25-Feb-2007, 20:33

Thanks guys.

I'm starting off with a half-plate camera, and don't have much leads from the sources you mentioned - seems like full-plate is much more popular than the half-plate cameras. A lot of the threads cover the same themes like

1). which film holders to use
2). how to adapt a half-plate to use modern film
3). how rare original plate holders are
4). how little film is available.
5). what the exact imperial/metric dimensions of plate film is in the US/UK/Europe.

I'm still struggling with all of these ;)

I have my sights set on Fuji Acros half-plate film & Ilford FP4+ although the limiting factor is the film holder for this half-plate size.....any help appreciated.

Ash

26-Feb-2007, 04:13

Hey a UK member :)

I thought full plate was very popular since it isn't dissimilar to 10x8?

I have a 1/2plate Kodak Ground Camera. It came with a reducing back which was shoddy but works. Literally remove the back standard, and slot in the new one, then place the spring-loaded GG half of a 4x5 back under two metal tabs. Hardly ideal but it works.

Of course I bought it with the same ideas in mind as you, but with a big age gap between us :)

You can find some sellers on the bay selling the old half-plate backs too. If you look inside them, you will note it's possible to reduce half plate to quarter plate by means of a super-thin wooden frame, latched on the back. You can mock something like that up for 4x5 in a half plate holder. I cheated and made a stack of half-plate card (mounting board) sheets with sellotape corners that the film is easily place into. Again, shoddy but it works.

I've also been on the look-out for a 'burke and james' reducing back as theirs are quite plentiful in america, and the wooden construction could be cut down to fit a camera better.

What camera do you have? You should be able to mock up a reducing back JUST about 5x7, and easily 4x5.

Struan Gray

26-Feb-2007, 04:57

How old is your camera? If it's not too ancient you may well find that 5x7 and 13x18 film holders work without modification. This will give you a much wider choice of emulsions than sticking with half plate, and opens you up to colour work too.

Bear in mind that half plate is not half of whole plate. That is, you won't be able to get two half plate pieces of film by cutting down one whole plate sheet. Quarter plate is one quarter of whole plate, so why half plate is odd only Ole knows.

There was a whole bunch of Sinar half plate kit on the Swedish auction site Tradera recently. Film holders, processing hangers etc. etc.. I don't think all of it sold, so I'll give you a buzz if it's relisted.

Ash

26-Feb-2007, 05:22

only Ole knows.

Idolising, much? :D

Just to hijack, what external size (dimensions) are 5x7 dds? I'd like to measure my back to see if it's worth investing :D

Struan Gray

26-Feb-2007, 05:47

Ole's my hero. Not only does he own a bunch of fun brass and mahogany gear, he uses it too. I only ever seem to manage the first bit .-P

I only have a couple of 13x18 holders, but they are modern enough that I know they'll fit 5x7 'international' backs. In fact, the plastic moulding includes the text "5x7" as well as "13x18". If no-one else chips in I'll measure them tonight.

Ash

26-Feb-2007, 06:17

well my 'bookform' half plate holders measure 14.8x20 on the outside, not including depth or darkslide tab.

That's the inner dimensions that will slot into my half plate GG back I guess?

Ole Tjugen

26-Feb-2007, 06:21

... so why half plate is odd only Ole knows...

I don't know, I can only concur that it's a mystery. And metric sizes are even worse - 6.5x9cm is one quarter of 13x18cm, 4.5x6cm is one quarter of 9x12cm which is one quarter of 18x24cm, and nothing at all divides into 24x30cm.

Film holder sizes are here: http://home.earthlink.net/~eahoo/page8/filmhold.html

Ash

26-Feb-2007, 06:31

hmm.. I'm thinking 5x7's would be loose in my half plate back

Struan Gray

26-Feb-2007, 06:32

I think you are probably out of luck if you have an English-style camera with a ground glass that folds up over the top of the rear standard, and which uses the bookform-style plate/film holders. It is dangerous to say 'never', but for all of the ones I have seen, there is no way to keep a modern holder firmly attached to the back of the camera, even if the size and light-trapping is physically compatible.

For example, I can slide a modern 4x5 holder into the back of my no-name 1890s tailboard camera, but it just falls off again because the ground glass frame is simply hinged at the top. Cameras built for a modern holder have some sort of spring arrangement to keep the holder firmly attached. Cameras built for bookform slides assume they will have the ridges on the sides to lock them to the camera back.

If you have plate holders it is easy to get hold of a piece of glass, or metal or perspex sheet that is the correct size and somehow attach a piece of film to the front. Ole uses blueberry jam, I tape Scotch magic tape across the corners. Sophisticates get hold of spray-on Post-It note glue. The problem in this case is that half-plate is the smallest of the three 'compatible' formats, so you will still probably have to shave some film off the edges of the sheets. 4x5 will work fine though, as will in-between paper sizes like 10x15 cm if you want to experiment with paper negs.

Ash

26-Feb-2007, 08:09

oh maybe I got the names wrong. My half plate holders are built like blocks, without the tabs.. I thought that was bookform? maybe I'm getting mixed up.

I've done the jam-attachment method, it was a bit messy.
Hmm... anyone got a single 5x7 (light-tight, not broken) film holder going spare?

Rob_5419

26-Feb-2007, 11:20

Thanks for the replies guys. It's a bit like the google searches - everything about 'half-plates' needs to be clarified because of the variations in sizes etc.

How old is my camera? It looks like it's 1900's. In very fine condition actually. Quite surprised. No name on it though - just a standard strut metal field camera.

I've already bought some half-plate size film, and just wanted a head-up on the film holders for half-plates. Struan -it sounds worrying about the film holder tightness to the back of the view camera since undoubtedly my half-plate is English (nameless though). I like the idea of the half-plate format and was hoping to get the camera working to do contact prints from half-plate since I don't want a 10x8 monster enlarger to tinker with.. I don't really want to convert this to use 5x4" format either.

Actually I should have just bought a full-plate camera instead of being cautious and taking things one format step at a time:(

Thanks Ash - you seem to have the book form type holder which is blocky and thick (does it work?).

Btw - half-plates were so called from the 8.5x6.5 inch full-plates regardless of the approximation of the ratio 1:1.3 rather than a properly scaled reduction. The quarter-plate as pointed out, is exactly a quarter of the full-plate's dimensions so it offers nothing new in terms of format. The half-plate's longer rectangular edge gives it a very appealing rectangular shape. I saw some tintypes and was impressed by the aspect ratio and format - much more elegant than my 5x4".

There must be a way to machine film holders with better tolerances for half-plate than hoping 7x5" fits so that the half-plate size can be preserved. I'd be happuy to shoot 7x5" darkslides if this worked - then the half-plate images will have a neat black border.

Christopher Perez

26-Feb-2007, 12:34

I have a half plate (4.75 x 6.5 inch) Nagaoka that came out of Japan. It takes the modern style film holders.

I'm looking for modern film holders for it.

I have a couple really nice early style halfplate holders with tabs. They appear to be in fine condition. But since I don't have a camera they fit on, I'm holding out for the newer holders.

Failing that, I think all it would take would be two very careful cuts to open the back up to hold 5x7 film holders. I don't yet want to alter the half plate camera as it's in such fine condition as is. Time will tell which direction I need to take, as I'm very interested in adding half plate images to my collection of things.

I also have a very interesting Full Plate (6.5 x 8.5 inch) camera. This one is also from Japan. It takes the earlier style tabbed film holders. It came with five such film holders. Rather than the slotted wood pull-outs, these have the aforementioned tabs AND modern style slides. Very interesting.

Thank the gods that Ilford offers full plate film. I now have 5 boxes of the stuff awaiting it's turn in the light. :) :)

Ole Tjugen

26-Feb-2007, 12:54

Just to make sure we all understand the same things here...

"Book-style holders" open in the middle, a bit like a book. The plates are inserted from the inside. The holder is then closed, and is usually kept closed by two or more metal "clasps" along the long side of the holder.

The other type,"block-style", opens in the bottom (usually), and the film or plate is slid into the holder from the outside. Some of these, but not all, are "modern type", which means they will fit most reasonably new cameras. For these, there are ISO standard dimensions. The external dimension of 9x12cm and 4x5" are the same, as are 13x18cm, 5x7" and half-plate holders.

PS: The jam trick works fine on book-style plate holders, but I don't recommend trying it on "block-style" plate holders! A variation of this trick is to paste a smaller film in the middle of a much larger holder - but remember to shim the (glass) backing to the correct spacing. Not so much for precise focus as to prevent the film from being dragged away by the dark slide and creating a sticky mess all over the insides of the camera.

Ash

26-Feb-2007, 12:59

Bookform mine are after all.

I'd still recommend reducing backs - for cost-efficiency and ease of photography, 4x5 is still a popular and relatively inexpensive format in comparison to plate sizes.

Struan Gray

26-Feb-2007, 13:02

You can see a 'modern' half plate holder here:

http://www.tradera.com/auction/aid_39185178

I put 'modern' in inverted commas because the Sinar logo style on these was dropped from their cameras over thirty years ago.

Camera backs that use these plastic holders are - allegedly - directly compatible with similar style 5x7 and 13x18 holders. My 13x18 holders in this style measure:

width: 150 mm
rib-lock to end of holder: 195 mm
thickness: 12.5 mm

image area: 125x172 mm

I may be wrong on the wooden holder nomenclature. The wooden holders I call 'bookform' open up like, well, a book, with a hinge along the short end away from the darkslide handles. The darkslides themselves are usually captive (i.e. they do not come all the way out), and plates/films are loaded by placing them into the opened holder rather than sliding them in along a groove. This sort of holder is much easier to adapt to smaller film sizes with reducing septums or a sticky backplate, but is also more bulky and expensive to make than the modern plastic sort.

How much you want to modify an existing camera is a personal choice. On the older English-style cameras I have seen it would be easy enough to replace the hinged ground glass frame with a bail or spring back that takes modern holders. The camera could be restored to its original spec by screwing the original back back :-)

Ash

26-Feb-2007, 13:27

well the spring-back on my own half plate, I would hope might fit 5x7 'modern' holders. If it does then I'd sell the Sinar 4x5 back that I had originally bought for this modification.

I'm not sure about you Rob - maybe if you post some images of your camera it might help?

here's the backside of mine - http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSCF0188.jpg

and the hinge-back vs bookform holder - http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSC00051_sm.jpg

Christopher Perez

26-Feb-2007, 13:48

This is EXACTLY the style I'm looking for.

You can see a 'modern' half plate holder here:

http://www.tradera.com/auction/aid_39185178

Ash

26-Feb-2007, 13:51

I can't find them for sale anywhere in the UK... ?

Ole Tjugen

26-Feb-2007, 14:00

I can't find them for sale anywhere in the UK... ?

I bought a few from the UK by mistake a few years ago - can't remember if I sold them on or stuffed them in the bottom of a drawer "just in case". The seller thought they were 5x7".

If I find them, you can have them really cheap!

Ash

26-Feb-2007, 14:05

Ole, that would be brilliant, let me know :D

Rob_5419

26-Feb-2007, 17:16

Ash

26-Feb-2007, 17:35

Any monkey can shoot it, but only the well-trained ones can shoot it well :)

I'll have a look upstairs later. I'm sure I have one half-plate holder that I didn't butcher into a bookform.

(lol ... 5x4 = 1:1.25 - hardly any different!)

Ash

26-Feb-2007, 17:45

This is the only one of five that I didn't shave the sides from.

Let me know if the holder will be any good to you. It's missing one handle for the dark slide (it's stored in a box and can be re-attached) so if you wanted it, it's yours cheap.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSC00792.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSC00793.jpg

Rob_5419

27-Feb-2007, 03:33

Thanks Ash - what size is it?

The holders which Straun linked up ("modern" 5x7) are the ones I'm looking for. Your Kodak plate camera is way more modern than mine. Sorry - digicam is dead at the moment. The clasp book form back is the type I have and if it is too difficult to use bookform holders, then I'll get it machined to have a graflok type spring back instead and use 5x7 holders with it.

Maybe will try an advert and see what the response is like?

Ole Tjugen

27-Feb-2007, 04:50

I've found my half-plate holders - all four of them, 6 1/2 x 4 3/4". And I've confirmed that they are exactly the same (external) size as Fidelity 5x7" and 13x18cm holders.

If there are more "interested parties", I can split them in two packs of two. :)

I also found some 5x7" sheet film inserts for plate holders which I prefer not using, since thy'rs too loose in my 13x18cm plate holders... ;)

Rob_5419

27-Feb-2007, 05:19

Arrghh...6 1/2 x 4 3/4 .......the European, not British imperial size of half-plates.

Can I check whether your half-plates fit 118mm x 163mm?

Will this work I wonder?

If you're happy to release your half-plates, I'd be happy to take them. If they don't work on my half-plate, I'd be happy to try the 5x7" option thereafter...

Ash

27-Feb-2007, 05:20

Well I'm still on the lookout for the bookform 5x7 holders, if I got some then I wouldn't need the bits and pieces I have laying around!

I'm updating my sig with my wants list :)

Ole Tjugen

27-Feb-2007, 06:26

Arrghh...6 1/2 x 4 3/4 .......the European, not British imperial size of half-plates.

Can I check whether your half-plates fit 118mm x 163mm?

They do. the other side of the holder says 12x16.5cm. So I measured, and the inside filmslot is 120x163mm. :)

Rob_5419

27-Feb-2007, 13:08

Thanks Ole - they'll do then :)

Ash - sorry I didn't reply to your question about the holder. I didn't know whether yours is a bookform holder (around 1.5cm thick), or whether it is just a wooden old version of the 5x7" type holder?

Does yours have a 3mm groove to fit into the back of a standard British half-plate camera?
I have two bookforms which look like they were designed for my half-plate.

Ash

27-Feb-2007, 13:15

Rob, if you check the photo's on the previous page you can see it's a bookform type (opens from the middle), but with the slot/groove on the rail so it locks into the back of a hinged camera. Does that make sense?

It's made to be used on a camera where the Ground glass is on a hinge, versus my camera where the ground glass is on a spring. If you 'updated' your camera to have the spring back, you simply plane off the grooves and it will slide into a spring back (that was the fate of the other 5 holders :D )

Rob_5419

27-Feb-2007, 13:25

Argh. I hear you but I'm still not understanding :(

1. It is a bookform - approx. 15mm thick?
2. There are grooves approx. 3mm to slot into the back of a hinged camera?

My half-plate is like the one Struan describes - a hinge clasp to hold the viewing screen in place. This moves out of the way and a bookform slots into it.

Is yours 'fiddled' with? I've just been reading your posts and was looking for something that hasn't been experimented with ;)

Ash

27-Feb-2007, 13:36

Rob, the holder hasn't been 'fiddled with' - I intentionally left it without modification. All it needs is a bit of TLC to re-attach one handle.

It is very thick. In total a little over 2cm thick (maybe 22mm), the groove measures closer to 4mm I think.

As I said, you can have it really cheap, a fiver and then your choice of postage on top. If it's worth it for you to play around with then let me know.

I'll even check if I have some ancient glass plates to leave in the holder for you to stick film to.

Ash

27-Feb-2007, 13:42

Here's the groove from side-on.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSC00794.jpg

Links to the other two shots:
Here (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSC00792.jpg)
and
Here (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSC00793.jpg)

Rob_5419

27-Feb-2007, 13:56

Ok Ash...I guess that's £5 out of my retirement fund then.

PM me your details and I'll sort out the payment. My eyesight must be going - the bookform holders are 2cm thick, and not 15mm as stated earlier.

Justin Cormack

27-Feb-2007, 15:13

Rob, 4.25x6.5 isnt standard UK half plate. Its not as far as I know at all common. 4.75x6.5 is the standard in the UK and Japan, and I think Europe. And its the size of half plate Acros and NP22 (the only two films am aware of in half plate; Ilford doesnt seem to make any, and they havent been on the ULF list).

I think you may have found one of the oddities of sizing...

Rob_5419

27-Feb-2007, 15:42

Justin Cormack

27-Feb-2007, 16:00

Justin,

Having checked again, it looks like my half-plates are definitely standard UK issue. The film area inside the plate measures exactly 163mm x 118mm, however on the exposing lens side, the aperture from the lens towards the film plane measures exactly 158mm x 113mm (approx 6.5 x 4.5 inches) of image area.

Maybe the image area of the half-plate is specific for each camera? It seems there isn't a clear convention for referring to half-plate going by either measuring the area of the image; the area the whole plate film takes up in the holder, or the size of the holder, or just an approximation.

Roughly half-a-full-plate....I can only guess that the extra 5mm margin all around is for a 2.5mm negative bleed around the whole image.

PS - how is your 8x8" camera?

Oh thats ok. Thats exactly the size of Acros; NP22 is about 1mm shorter on the long edge. The image area on bookform holders is quite a bit smaller. The film sizes are a bit smaller than the plate sizes so adaptors could be made, but its the external area not the image area thats standardised, so they fit.

The 8x8 doesnt arrive until late summer alas...

Rob_5419

27-Feb-2007, 16:20

Justin Cormack

28-Feb-2007, 15:55

Have you found any half-plate film from Maco available? It might be worthwhile checking out as they had it last time I looked (was it Retrophotographic or MrCad?).
Orwo film...definitely a blast from the past...

I quite like the bookform holders - they seem to fit neatly. Just realised my wooden junk plate camera also has rear swing by about 15 degrees! How cool is that? Front shift, front tilt up or down.

Retro has Wephota NP22 (and 27) which is probably Fomapan, its what I used first, but my camera doesnt have a shutter (lens cap only!) so the reciprocity really got me down. Acros is great for long exposures as you only lose 1/3 stop or so. I havent seen Maco, but I havent yet been to see what Mr Cad has hidden away (he lists half plate film holders I see).

It took me ages to realise about the rear swing on my camera too - extra brass knobs that I hadnt undone.

The only problem with bookform holders is that as the darkslides dont come right out (so they dont need a lightrap I suppose) if its windy they blow around, shaking the camera.

Rob_5419

1-Mar-2007, 08:02

Hi Justin,

Your plate camera prob. looks like mine - like this:

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[url]http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oldcameraqv1.jpg ([URL=http://img137.imageshac)

Thanks for the hint. I haven't shot an exposure with mine yet. It looks quite easy to get a barrel lens on since the wooden plates are easily drilled. Mine uses small square type plates. Rear lateral swing! Rear tilt! Up or down too don't forget! I'm surprised how clever the engineering is - just looking at how it's built, it's very clever....

Guess you probably need to add a red filter (x8) + polariser (x4) + ND Grad (x8) to push the exposures way down to several seconds. You're not keen on Packard shutters I take it.

First thing I did was undone every brass knob and add vaseline to move them around a little easier. I'll look out for some half-plate film. If I can't find any, then I'll see what rolls of film I have left that I can cut down to half-plate. I think I have some infrared film (720nm) in 15 metres. Once I'm more confident about the size of the half-plate, then I'll try and sort out a jig with a rotatrim.

Ole Tjugen

1-Mar-2007, 08:29

Rob, yours is a little unusual in that it has the "Gandolfi/Linhof back movements".

Just like my Gandolfi 7x5": http://www.bruraholo.no/Cameras/Gandolfi/Gandolfi.html

I don't know if there are other plate cameras with the same movements, but anyway I'd like to see a few more pictures of your camera!

Hmmm... I just noticed a few more small details which are suspiciously similar...

Ash

1-Mar-2007, 08:59

rob you lucky b*stard! :D

Ole Tjugen

1-Mar-2007, 10:18

rob you lucky b*stard! :D

My thoughts exactly - and if it really is a Gandolfi, it shoud be very easy to get a modern 7x5" back for it. And a 5x4" one, and more lensboards etcetera...

Ash

1-Mar-2007, 10:29

Well it definitely isn't a piece of crap. You can see that from the single image.

Kinda puts my own half-plate camera to shame, but mine only cost £20 (and has a place in history since it was in use as a military issued camera), and it's fun to work with and restore :D

Randy H

1-Mar-2007, 18:40

Since everyone is on the topic of full/half plate cameras, a quick question. A few years back, I purchased a "whole-plate" japanese field camera. It was a lot closer to 6.5x8.5 than 5x7. Is there a difference between "whole" and "full" plate sizes? I ask, because I have seen both references used, and have always wondered if there was nay diff?

Rob_5419

1-Mar-2007, 20:19

Hi again,

what is a Gandolfi?

I did a Goggle search and came up with womens' underwear. I know half-plate cameras are cool...but this is too much. Ole - your camera looks very similar to mine actually. I know nothing about half-plates or camera brands from the early last century. But yours is next to identical to mine in the outside.

I haven't opened up the inside yet. I've rubbed in moisturer to work its way from the back of the bellows. Hopefully over the weekend I'll have got to open the camera up and restore the bellows with conditioner and check if there are any leaks. Just a bit worried the bellows will crumble to pieces if I do it too quickly. Trying to get some moisturer for the bellows tomorrow and then I'll get to work on the inside. Will take more photographs then if I'm not away for the weekend.

£20 for a plate camera is very well spent Ash. I think I should have just gone for a whole plate really. The size advantage isn't the most important thing - the more I think about producing contact plates, the better a whole plate idea seems.

Randy - whole and full plate sizes are approximately 6.5 x 8.5 inches. The size is derived from tintypes and ambrotypes.

As far as I know, 5x7" is a 'modern' invention. It could be that your traditional plate camera was modified to a 5x7. That's what everyone seems keen to do.

I think I'd rather keep a half-plate camera as a half-plate. If it could turn into a whole plate, even better. If I want a 7x5", I'll go to Snappysnaps and blow up my 35mm negative formats to that size ;)

Ole Tjugen

1-Mar-2007, 23:08

Rob_5419

2-Mar-2007, 05:02

Second line on a Google search: http://www.gandolficameras.com/

Sorry - you're right. The other search items must have distracted my mind.

My camera has a Gandolfi Makers London label below the front panel and looks like a clone of the ones in the website. (The design looks identical as far as I can see with my glasses on). I've never heard of them, and I can't find a half-plate version like mine on the website. It doesn't look like the design is very difficult to replicate so it's possible I have a clone. Any idea how old it might be?

I'm not interested in the brand - too old for that kind of fashion thing. I'm just trying to get on with a half-plate. But if accessories like a 5x4" back, or 7x5" back or lensboards are easily available as you say......

Ash

2-Mar-2007, 05:02

Rob, when I got mine I cracked the baby open and forced every movement and crease I could. It's good to exercise it. I'd hate to spend 2 weeks massaging the thing, then find all I've done is wasted time the bellows could be replaced.

And yes, £20 isn't bad. I drilled a few holes to check if I could manage the same mod as on the cambo. Turns out it's impossible to drill straight without dismantling. Plan B - Replace the front standard :D

Rob_5419

2-Mar-2007, 05:09

I see your point Ash, although working in specialist printing, I didn't want to take chances and prefer to take my time over things. I've now opened it and the bellows are (shockingly) new. They have not dried out either. It doesn't look like the owner ever used it other than to display.

Maybe I've been too cautious. The bellows are double pleated at the corners and where there is a minor breach in the first layer, the second pleat is intact. I'd hate to think how much a new pair of bellows would cost for something as old as this. Some of the brassing has rubbed off exposing the underlayer of metal. Otherwise, the camera is in fine half-plate working condition.

Ole Tjugen

2-Mar-2007, 05:21

My camera has a Gandolfi Makers London label below the front panel and looks like a clone of the ones in the website. (The design looks identical as far as I can see with my glasses on). I've never heard of them, and I can't find a half-plate version like mine on the website. It doesn't look like the design is very difficult to replicate so it's possible I have a clone. Any idea how old it might be?

Since Gandolfi is the oldest existing camera manufacturer in the world, it would be some time after 1885...

Well - that model (the "traditional") seems to have been introduced in the 1920's, and since it's a plate camera I would guess it was made not much later than 1930. The real expert on these is easily accessible - just email Eddie Hill on the address on the Gandolfi website!

If there's a Gandolfi Makers London label on it, it's a Gandolfi camera. I have heard of genuine cameras without the label (I have a genuine unlabeled Gandolfi tripod myself), but never a "real fake" labeled copy!

Changing the back on these cameas is very simple, as you should have found out by now. Open two clasps on the top, then remove the whole back. That's how you change from vertical to horizontal, too...

Anyway I also have a 8x10" Gandolfi under restoration; it came with 8x10", 5x7" and whole-plate backs!

Rob_5419

2-Mar-2007, 05:26

Thank you Ole -

Your knowledge makes me humbled by my ignorance. I didn't realise my camera had so much history about it -:rolleyes:

It's amusing to discover we also have very similar cameras. Did you convert yours from a half-plate to a 5x7, or did yours come this way (i.e. is more modern than mine).

What do you do for lensboards? I have the tools to cut my own wooden boards, but I can't guarantee a steady hand these days.

Ole Tjugen

2-Mar-2007, 05:43

Rob, mine was bough second-hand from Gandolfi. It was made as a 5x7" camera on a government contract around 1950 - for some strange reason your Ministry of Defense needed a lot of 5x7" cameras, all black!

I got my lensboards the easy way (not "the cheap way"), I got them straight from the "factory". It's those double-stepped holes I didn't trust myself to get straight - with such thick lensboards, the double step is necessary for the smaller shutters (like 00, 0 and 1). If the retaining ring sits fully behind the lens board it will have a poor grip on the threads, and will also limit the front shift a little bit. Not to mention that sooner or later I would rip the felt off the front light seal with a burr...

Ash

2-Mar-2007, 09:21

And theres me enjoying my RAF-grey half plate drilling holes all over the place, and noticing how poor condition the whole thing is..

Maybe I should slow down :D

Rob_5419

2-Mar-2007, 09:33

Retro has Wephota NP22 (and 27) which is probably Fomapan, its what I used first, but my camera doesnt have a shutter (lens cap only!) so the reciprocity really got me down. Acros is great for long exposures as you only lose 1/3 stop or so. I havent seen Maco, but I havent yet been to see what Mr Cad has hidden away (he lists half plate film holders I see).

For anyone who stumbles across this thread, there is plenty of Half-Plate film available:

Dirk Rosler of www.unicircuits.com/shop stocks:

Fuji Acros Half-Plate sheet film (25 sheets)

Mr Cad (London) stocks:

1. Efke PL25M (ISO 25) (25 sheets - 100 sheets)
2. Efke PL50 (ISO 50)
3. Efke PL100 (ISO 100)

They have plenty in stock, expiry date well in to 2008.

Go half-plate elitists go!

FYI - www.mrcad.co.uk has Full-Plate holders; Half-Plate book-form holders; Half-plate 'modern' holders; 5x7" holders as well as the unusually slightly smaller Thornton Pickard half-plates (these are smaller than the standard British Half-plates).

Ash - you've got to slow down. Life's too short to rush.

I'm amazed at how much I know about my camera now. Thanks guys.

PS Ole - would love to see your restoration full plate. One day....

Ash

2-Mar-2007, 09:40

Rob I don't like to waste much time :)

I'd prefer to get all I need done asap, get all my little projects half-finished, and have time on sunny days to sit and watch the clouds go by. We are English after all :D

Sal Santamaura

2-Mar-2007, 10:05