Stieglitz on Photography/Platinum printing

[Robert Brummitt]

I was combing through a local bookstore and found this little gem.

“Stieglitz on Photography” His selected essays and Notes.
Compiled and annotated by Richard Whelan.
This is a really neat find for me and only for $17. So, I grabbed it up. There are several chapters on photography but I want to share this one passage with you regarding Platinum Printing.
“of all the modern printing processes at the command of the photographer, whether amateur or professional, none deserves to be more popular than platinum. The simplicity of manipulation, combined with the beauty of the results obtained with it, is enough to recommend it to every photographer. And above all, the prints produced by the method are as permanent as the paper which supports the image.
Its range, yielding the strongest blacks with pure lights and long scale of intermediate half-tones or grays, is only equaled by the carbon process. The platinum print has an indescribable charm, suggesting atmosphere, though the negative printed on another may be entirely devoid of this valuable pictorial quality.”
Wow, I just don’t think it can be said any better then this regarding Platinum printing. I don’t print platinum prints but I would agree with what Mr.Stieglitz. I’ve seen wonderful work from those who do print platinum.

[Jim Galli]

That's a lucky find indeed. I'd love to borrow it some day. I'm just about finished reading Sue Davidson/Lowes voluminous account of her famous great uncle Alfred. Very enjoyable to see the human side of the Wizard of Oz. Platinum papers that he is referring to were factory coatings. He railed against George Eastman's lousy products that he was forced to use when his supply of Platinum papers were gone. Now we're wishing for some more Azo that wasn't good enough for Alfred.

[Mark Sawyer]

Bear in mind this was written in Stieglitz' early pictorial period.

Platinum prints are quite beautiful, but I've always felt this comes as much from being by nature contact prints as from the chemistry and process itself...

[Dick Hilker]

Since I print digitally, I've been trying very hard to replicate the silver print look and feel I've just about gotten there.

What characteristics does a platinum print have that distinguish it from silver? It might be an interesting project to see how close I might come to that, as well. My darkroom days are over (other than film developing,) so there's no turning back! The analog/digital combination seems to offer the best of both worlds, but I'd like to maintain the aura of the good olde days as best I can.

[davidb]

I would love to see the digital print that replicates the silver print look.

[Dick Hilker]

It's been about sixty years since I made my first silver prints and I'll admit I was skeptical of some of the claims I read on the Digital Darkroom forum at photo.net. However, recent developments have made me a believer: the combination of Epson's new K-3 inks and Crane's Museo Silver Rag 100& cotton rag paper is truly impressive.

I think it's fair to say that when both are viewed framed in a gallery setting, at normal viewing distance, it would be extremely diffficult to tell which is which. Making such prints does require a rather expensive printing setup and the paper can run nearly $5/sheet, but the results are worth the effort and investment.

[Robert Brummitt]

Well, I've seen some wonderful Platinum prints from todays photographers Ray Bidegain and Bill Schwab. They have a beauty of their own. Another photographer, I know of prints on Azo paper then, He switched to platinum, making prints from the same negs and I have to say these look better to me then the Azo prints. A warmth. Of course, that is my opion.
I say today, we have the best of all worlds as photographers. We can have use of any printing process at hand. I'm mostly a color photographer, use to make I negs of chromes and print on C paper. Now, I use my Epson 2400 and I'm getting better results then before. I'm playing with the idea of the digital neg and doing a hybred of my black and white printing. Doing all my work on the computer, making a digtal neg then printing on platinum or some other material. It sounds like a lot of work but then it also sounds like a lot of fun too!
Yes, I say we are offered some really neat ways to express our world.

[Vaughn]

Since I print digitally...What characteristics does a platinum print have that distinguish it from silver? It might be an interesting project to see how close I might come to that, as well.


One of the big differences -- and one that actually will make it a little easier to digitally mimic a platinum print than a silver print -- is that the pt image is in the paper, not on top of the paper...much like the way ink goes into the paper. Silver prints (and carbons) sit on top on the paper as an emulsion (technically one does not have an emulsion with pt prints.)

Other than that, pt (and palladium) prints come in a variety of brown/blacks -- depending on the reciepe used and the type and temperature of the developer. Paper choice also helps to determine print color, contrast, and the general "look".

So the question becomes, not how one makes a digital print to look like a pt print -- buy what type of pt print do you want your digital print to look like?

I very much like the look of my pt/pd prints -- but I enjoy doing carbon prints even more...loosely stated, carbon prints are more like silver prints on steroids.

Vaughn

[Michael Alpert]

Robert,

The Stieglitz book includes all of his public statements (or should I say pronouncements) over a very long period of time. I think what is sometimes lacking is the gentleness and sensitivity, which at least some of Stieglitz's acquaintances have reported as characteristic of his private behavior.

Stieglitz made gelatin-silver prints in later years. I think these silver prints have wonderful qualities and are in no way inferior to his platinum prints. Their higher resolution and smoother surface seem more aligned with the Modernist aesthetic that Stieglitz gradually adopted in the early decades of the century.

[Christopher Perez]

Robert,

Stieglitz's comments are interesting and stand in contrast to comments made by Ed Weston on the topic. I too recently picked up a book, this one on darkroom work. Therein one of Ed's son's talks about why his father moved away from platinotype work. Ed apparently didn't like the lack of contrast and "absolute black" of platinum. Oh well.

Personally, I've practically given up printing to silver. This after 40 years of working in that medium. After seeing and purchasing a few of Ray's images I was hooked! While he works in Pt/Pd, I'm working in palladium only. For now at least. It's a wonderful process.

Azo leaves me completely cold. It feels remote to me. It's sharp, that's for certain. But the warmth and depth of palladium and platinum prints can't be duplicated by either silver bromide or silver chloride IMNSHO. :)

One of Ray's close friends has moved away from Azo too. I think his friend's work in Pt/Pd is more expressive. But that's just me. Oh, and I bought a print from Ray's friend too.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/christophersoddsandsods/

[Joe Lipka]

I'm playing with the idea of the digital neg and doing a hybred of my black and white printing. Doing all my work on the computer, making a digtal neg then printing on platinum or some other material. It sounds like a lot of work but then it also sounds like a lot of fun too!


Have you made it over to the Hybrid Photo site yet? Information to get you started.

http://www.hybridphoto.com/forums/

[Robert Brummitt]

"One of Ray's close friends has moved away from Azo too. I think his friend's work in Pt/Pd is more expressive. But that's just me. Oh, and I bought a print from Ray's friend too."
We're probably talking about the same photographer/friend and I would agree regarding the pt/pd is more expressive. There's magic in that pt/pd chemistry and Azo leaves me cold as well.

[Robert Brummitt]

Have you made it over to the Hybrid Photo site yet? Information to get you started.

http://www.hybridphoto.com/forums/

I'm planning to attend a Digital neg workshop and buy Dick Arnetz Platinum book and workshop.

[Christopher Perez]

Ray showed a small group of like-minded photographers a Pt/Pd print about a year ago. It was sharp and contrasty and looked simply wonderful.

After some amount of discussion Ray revealed that a friend of his from the Seattle area had created it from a digital interneg. I was blown away! The artist had taken the original image using a 4x5 view camera. With a scan and manipulation, he then created what looked to me to be an 11x14 inch digital print neg.

I nearly sold everything I had to start down the digital workflow path. But I pulled up short very quickly. I work with computers every day. So why would I want to do more of it when I went home? Besides, the traditional workflow is such a nice analog counterpoint to all this digital madness. I have actively made the decision to stick with in-camera produced negatives of various sizes.

However, after seeing Ray's friend's image I know what's possible using digital in some part of the workflow. Really amazing stuff.


I'm planning to attend a Digital neg workshop and buy Dick Arnetz Platinum book and workshop.

[Ole Tjugen]

I've got two Pt/Pd prints hanging on the wall here. one is from a (digitally) enlarged MF negative, the other form an in-camera LF negative.

Both are great prints, but there's no doubt in my mind which one is superior. (Thanks Jorge!)

[paulr]

[QUOTE=Christopher Perez;221064Stieglitz's comments are interesting and stand in contrast to comments made by Ed Weston on the topic.[/QUOTE]

They probably also stand in contrast to his own comments made at other times. Stieglitz changed his mind about almost everything, but rarely acknowledged doing so.

I also remember Weston being upset when his platinum papers were discontinued, but like everyone else, he adapted to the new materials, and his work seemed to follow.

Looking at Stieglitz, it's hard to imagine some of his earlier symbolist work being as convincing on silver paper, but it's equally hard to imagine his later new york modernist work (with the buildings and inky shadows) on platinum.

[Kirk Keyes]

We're probably talking about the same photographer/friend [...].

Robert, Chris - I assume you guys are talking about Patrick Kolb. Let's just say his name and give him the recognition that he is due. He does marvellous work.

Here's some of his work -
http://store01.prostores.com/servlet/thecontactprintersguild/Categories?category=PHOTOGRAPHER%3APatrick+Kolb

(BTW - I liked his silver prints as much as the Pt/Pd he's doing now.)

[Robert Brummitt]

Robert, Chris - I assume you guys are talking about Patrick Kolb. Let's just say his name and give him the recognition that he is due. He does marvellous work.

Here's some of his work -
http://store01.prostores.com/servlet/thecontactprintersguild/Categories?category=PHOTOGRAPHER%3APatrick+Kolb

(BTW - I liked his silver prints as much as the Pt/Pd he's doing now.)

It's etiquette. :o

[Christopher Perez]

The book I was talking about earlier in this thread is Darkroom 2, Copyright 1978, Lustrum Press. The book includes Judy Dater, Frank Gohlke, Emmet Gowin, Charles Harbutt, Lisette Model, Hans Namuth, Doug Prince, Aaron Siskind, and Neal Slavin.

Cole Weston is one of the last featured darkroom artists. There-in he says ... Early in his career, Dad used platinum paper. As he matured as an artist, he grew to feel platinum was too "soft" for his work, and he began printing on silver papers. The early silver papers were also relatively "soft" compared to most of the ones today...

I can't find the passage I found most interesting, wherein he says that Ed Weston used a magnifying glass to burn in areas of his platinum prints as they were being exposed to the sun. If I can uncover it, I'll think about posting the exact quote here.

In any event, it's this very "softness" that gives such an interesting quality to Pt/Pd prints.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/christophersoddsandsods/380857124