Lens with swirling Bokeh for 4x5

[Sam]

I am looking for a lens that will vignette heavily and has that turn of the century swirling bokeh for my 4x5. Any ideas I understand the petvals work well on the larger formats but is there anything that will give the same look on 4x5?

[Ole Tjugen]

That's very simple: A short Petzval.

They were made in every possible focal length, covering formats from "postage stamp" up to mammooth plates. A Petzval for Carte de Visite should be about what you want.

[Sam]

Ole, any ideas on where and what to look for?

[Ole Tjugen]

Where to look is fairly simple - ebay (although I myself would probably start by checking my "lens cupboard"). What to look for is a lot more difficult, as these lenses come under several hundred different names, and many different varieties without name...

But what you're looking for is a Petzval lens, which is usually f:3.5 or thereabout. So a 150mm f:3.5 would have a front glass a little under 5cm (2 inches), a 105mm would be 3cm. That should at least give you some idea of the size of the lens.

There are other lenses with "swirly bokeh" too; it's really a result of using fast lenses on a larger format than intended. One of my "swirliest2 is a 150mm f:3.5 Schneider Xenar Typ D, especially when used on 5x7" film. If you come across a 105 to 120mm of this, it can be a nice one - and currently far cheaper than a Petzval.

[Sam]

Would a Moskva 5 lens or other lens from a 6x9 folder work?

Any one tried this?