6 x 12 Format

[Kevin Thomas]

Hi Everyone,

I have just taken the leap into LF with the purchase of a Horseman 45 FA. I have been browsing through the forum picking up some very useful knowledge.

One of the main “justifications” for buying the Horseman was to mount a 6 x 12 roll film back. About six months ago I bought a Hasselblad Xpan and I have become very taken by shooting landscapes on panoramic formats.

Through this site I had already discovered that there is a length limit to the lens that can be mounted on the 45FA. It’s weight and ruggedness was a prime consideration.

The big question for me now is what lens to buy for the camera? With the Xpan I have both a 45mm and 90mm lenses, use the longer lens most of the time and have sometimes wished they made a 180mm!

My initial preference would therefore to fit the longest lens possible due to my experience using the Xpan. At the same time though I am very aware of my ignorance as I move into a new format.

I would therefore greatly appreciate any advice from anyone using the 6 x 12 format especially on the FA45 out there. If you have any photos taken on various focal lengths it would help me get a feel for the format.

Thanks,

Kevin

[Jim Rhoades]

I have a Horseman HD. My longest lens right now is a 300mm Fuji Tele. Someday I'll get the 400. My longest standard lens is a Germinar 240mm. I thought that the lack of bellows would be problematic. It's not. My 4x5/5x7 Dorff never sees the 4x5 back anymore.

[Warren Clark]

Hi Kevin

I use a 75,90, 135 Rod. Sironar(folds up in camera) and a
210 G Claron. These cover what I need with the FA.
Also a folding reflex finder-these are hard to locate.Very
useful also is a Horseman Zoom finder-on camera for
framing in fast changing light and with hand grip as a
walk around previewer.
Check with Jim Andracki at Midwest Photo in Columbus, Ohio.
Good shooting!

WJC

[Warren Clark]

Hi Kevin,

I forgot to mention a useful table of compatible lenses for the
FA. See the Horseman USA website. Maximum rear lens diameter
is 65mm-I haven't found this much of a problem.

WJC

[Photomax]

The other option is buy a 6x17 camera. These take LF lenses. Fotoman and Gaoersi are popular cameras for this format. I have a Gaoersi 6x17 and its very versitile. You can switch from 6x17 to 6x15 and 6x12 in an instant. You don't get LF camera movements with these cameras though, but the set up is much faster.

Max

[Sam Crater]

I use a 45HF for 6x12 and my favorite lens is the 100mm Sironar-N which folds up inside the camera. It may be the sharpest LF lens I ever used. For long the best thing would be to be patient and get hold of one of the long (at least 50mm) extension boards and one of the several very sharp 300mm non-tele lenses available (Nikkor M, Fuji C, or Apo-Ronar.) If you're in more of a hurry, maybe a Fuji-A 240mm. Or a 240mm Apo-Ronar (full disclosure: I have one of those at auction...)

[Ray Fenio]

I recently purchased an FA since the lensboard is the same as my VHR. I too intended to use a 6x12 chinese rollfilm back but find that I am prefering to shoot 4x5 and crop later. I use a 65mm nikkor, through a 240mm Docter germinar. I also have an old linhof tele-xenar 270mm.

[Kevin Thomas]

A big thanks everyone for their replies they have been a tremendous help. I am now feeling a lot more confident that I made the right decision with buying the FA45.

The Horseman’s lens compatibility chart has been very useful.

The Zoom finder is something I have now added to my list although you were right about them being hard to find. I’m in the UK and I suspect I will have to have one shipped from the US or Japan.

I had thought my first lens was going to be for a 300mm but then I discovered the depth of field chart at www.schneideroptics.com a 210mm seems to offer the right shutter speed/F-stop/DOF* combination for my predominate way of shooting; although I wonder about the difference in magnification?

It might sound weird but would anyone know what size the full moon would measure (in mm) on a 4x5 transparency using a 210mm or 300mm? It’s just that it would give me something of a standard size to compare with other formats/lenses.

If I do go for a 210mm and opt for a fast lens my choice suddenly drops to four Lenses Rodenstock Apo-Sironar N or S or the Fujinon W210 or CM 210. If anyone has any thoughts on any of these lenses I would be interested to hear.

Thanks, Kevin

* I know part of the reason in having a LF camera is the ability to use movements for depth of field control. But I am really a newbie and I have a taste for shots around the magic hour. As Van Camper pointed out “at sunset time is everything” so a lens with a good amount of Depth of field is going to give more variety of shots especially when low light makes seeing DOF on the GG difficult. So for a first lens the 210mm seems the best choice for me. Of course there will be more lenses to follow and I suspect it will not be too long before a 5x4 quick loader appears in the bag.

[Kevin Thomas]

Regarding my size of moon question apparently that is totally dependent on focal length and not film size. As a rough guide dividing the focal length by a hundred gives you the image size of the moon. So a 300mm lens should produce a 3mm moon on any size of film. Time to dig out my photography textbooks!

Kevin

[GPS]

...
It might sound weird but would anyone know what size the full moon would measure (in mm) on a 4x5 transparency using a 210mm or 300mm? It’s just that it would give me something of a standard size to compare with other formats/lenses.

.

With the 210mm lens the Moon will have 1.9mm size. With the 300mm it will be 2.75mm. Regardless of the size of the used film format...;-)
As a rule you can use the F/109 = Moon size equation.

[Greg Lockrey]

The other option is buy a 6x17 camera. These take LF lenses. Fotoman and Gaoersi are popular cameras for this format. I have a Gaoersi 6x17 and its very versitile. You can switch from 6x17 to 6x15 and 6x12 in an instant. You don't get LF camera movements with these cameras though, but the set up is much faster.

Max

You have me curious about this camera so I Googled it. How do you change from 6x17 to 6x15 and 6x12? I didn't see removable backs. Are there inserts?

[Photomax]

Greg,

All you do is move a lever to reposition the internal image frame in the back of the camera. Its all inside the camera and no backs etc are required. You do have to pay attention to the film counter window when switching from one format size though.

This page devoted to film based photography has sort of become a gathering place for Gaoersi 6x17 fans: http://www.photo-i.co.uk/BB/viewforum.php?f=32

Max

[Greg Lockrey]

Max,

Thanks for the info. It looks like a very reasonably priced camera to have in my arsenal though I don't shoot that many panoramics but wanted to.:)

[Photomax]

They are very basic cameras and a little frustrating to set up and calibrate...
But, they do use LF lenses and are a lot of fun to use. I am looking forward to the summer so I can shoot up a bunch of film. I have always been attracted to the wide pano format...

Max

[Greg Lockrey]

Max,
Have you ever seen one of these 6x17 to 6x9 multiformat backs for use with a 4x5 camera? This looks like a good idea to me since I already have the cameras. http://cgi.ebay.com/6x17-617-Roll-Film-Back-for-Linhof-4x5-Camera-72-150mm_W0QQitemZ330089461328QQihZ014QQcategoryZ29981QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem