Rapid Fix Without The Hardener?

[Doug Paramore]

I ought to know this, but I don't. Is it o.k. to use Kodad Rapid Fix without the hardener? I have never used it before. I usually use the regular Kodak fixer (p owder), but me and my supplier are out. I need to make some prints right away. A ny keeping problems or loss of permanence if I don't use the hardener with the r apid fix? I want to tone the prints in selenium, so I don't want to use the hard ener. Thanks.

[Charlie Stracl]

OK to use the fixer without the hardener. Toning is easier and it's easier to wash out the fixer and fixer residual compounds. Emulsion might be or might not be a bit soft, but the risk is low with a print since you can see the damage immediately if you cause any, and you can always reprint.

I want to put in a plug for Photographer's Formulary TF4 fixer. It clears my negatives in 30 seconds, has high capacity, and is alkaline rather than acidic. With a water wash rather than acid stop bath, the whole process is alkaline, which is much gentler on the emulsion, which I believe stays hard as a result.

[Charlie Stracl]

OK to use the fixer without the hardener. Toning is easier and it's easier to wash out the fixer and fixer residual compounds. Emulsion might be or might not be a bit soft, but the risk is low with a print since you can see the damage immediately if you cause any, and you can always reprint.

I want to put in a plug for Photographer's Formulary TF4 fixer. It clears my negatives in 30 seconds, has high capacity, and is alkaline rather than acidic. With a water wash rather than acid stop bath, the whole process is alkaline, which is much gentler on the emulsion, which I believe stays hard as a result.

---Second post because I'm not sure the first one took.

[Doug Paramore]

Thanks, Charlie. I will handle the prints gently until they are dry.

[Carl Weese]

Doug,

Regular Kodak powder fixer is a very strong hardening fix. Rapid Fix without hardener can be just fine, but it will leave the prints a lot softer than what you are used to. Unhardened prints and films seem to have become the norm recently, but your individual water supply may leave the prints too soft (it does in Southern New England where I live). You can also use *less* of the hardening solution than the rather heavy dose in the instrux. That's in fact what I generally do.-- -Carl

[Doug Paramore]

Appreciate the tip, Carl. I normally fix my prints in the powdered Kodak fixer, then wash, fix again in Ilford fixer without the hardener, and then directly into the selenium. I let myself run out of everything at once. I will use the rapid fix on a test print and if it needs hardening a little I will mix a weak hardening solution. I am in South Alabama and our water is a little on the hard side. I will see how it does with the test print.

Regards, Doug.

Regards

[John Hicks]

> Kodad Rapid Fix without the hardener

Sure, no problem. The emulsion _may_ be soft and prone to being easily scratch ed, especially if your summer wash water is warm. I haven't had any trouble with Ilford FB papers here in Florida.

Also, fwiw, C-41 fixer is the same, mix 1:3 for a film-strength rapid fix.

[William Marderness]

I never use hardener for negatives or prints. Be careful not to scratch the emulsion while it is wet.

[John Hicks]

This brings up a point; we see lots of assertions that TF-4 is superior to ordin ary fixer because it's alkaline.

Can anyone refer me to any tests that support this claim or the notion that an all-alkaline process is somehow better? I'm not wanting to start a fight, just curious.

[Pete Andrews]

John, gelatine is an organic protein, derived from animal tissue. All proteins tend to soften and decompose in alkaline solutions. This is why developer feels slippery and slightly slimy to the fingers. The alkali in the developer is decomposing your epidermal tissue, and coating your fingers with a thin solution of your own skin! (Don't worry, it was dead tissue already, and you've got a few billion more body cells to spare).

I too would like to see the evidence for alkali fixer having a long term benefit to the emulsion.

[William Marderness]

John,

I use TF-3 and TF-2 that I mix myself. The formula for TF-4 is not disclosed, but TF-3 and TF-2 are similar. I use TF-3 for negatives and conventional paper, and I use TF-2 for POP when I dont want to use (and waste) plain hypo.



TF-3, 1 liter, dilute 1:4 for use Ammonium thiosulfate 57-60% 800ml Sodium sulfite anhydrous 60g Sodium metaborate 5g

TF-2, 1 liter Sodium thiosulfate 250g Sodium sulfite 15g Sodium metaborate 10g



My process for negatives in my Jobo is: 1) 5 min. pre-wet, 2) develop, 3) two water rinses for 30 seconds each, 4) fix in TF-3 for about four mins. 5) wash for 5 mins.

I have tested negatives processed this way with Formulary Residual Hypo Test Solution. No stain occurs, which indicates (according to the instructions) that the negatives are archival. The Film Developing Cookbook says that negatives will be archival with just two minutes in the wash.

I like the Alkaline fixer because it makes the process shorter with fewer chemicals (no hypo clear, stop, or long wash time). The fixer does not smell as much as acid fixer, and I can mix up TF-3 and TF-2 from chemicals I already use for developers (except for the Hypo, of course).

William