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View Full Version : 4x5, PMK problems...



Sylvester Graham
31-Jan-2007, 07:40
I've been using PMK for a few years now with roll film. I'm now trying to use it with LF, and am having some problems. I have searched, and found a few posts relating to this exact topic. I used the suggestions found there as well as in Gordon Hutchings' book. Emulsion down, 1 cycle per 15 seconds. I'm using HP5 @ 13 min for normal, @ 70F.

I processed one fogged negative, and one real negative, the results are attached. The real negative looks fine, the fogged one... well, see for yourself. The real negative is complicated, so the flaws probably aren't visible, but I wouldn't want to process a negative with empty skies or anything with these results.

Any suggestions? I've tried this twice with the same results.
Thanks-
-Alex

David A. Goldfarb
31-Jan-2007, 08:02
Increased density at the edges is usually from using too small a tray. If you are using 4x5" trays, move up to 5x7" or 8x10", and be sure you have enough solution in the tray so the sheets move easily.

When tray developing I develop emulsion side up, and I divide the developing time into four periods and rotate the stack at each quarter. I also find that I get better results with two or more sheets than with one sheet, but don't do more sheets than you're comfortable with. Start with 2-4, and work your way up from there. Unless you are doing brush development (do a search to see what that's all about, if you're not familiar with it), I find that developing one sheet in a tray and rocking the tray will exaggerate the effect of increased agitation from the sides of the tray.

steve simmons
31-Jan-2007, 08:17
Try the procedure I outlined in an article in the Free Articles section of the View Camera web site. It has worked for me for 26+ years.

www.viewcamera.com

steve simmons

Doremus Scudder
31-Jan-2007, 10:57
I assume that the fogged neg is included to show the uneven development. Part of that may be with the way the negative was fogged/exposed as well (camera lenses have fall-off; even enlarger light is notoriously uneven....) However, let's assume it was exposed evenly and that the problem is in the developing step.

PMK can be tricky when it comes to agitation. It has a tendency to streak and mottle if you are not careful. So, try different agitation schemes. If the development is uneven, the agitation is usually not consistent enough. Steve Simmons method works well. I use less agitation: once through the stack every 30 seconds for the first half of development, once every minute thereafter.

The initial immersion in the developer is critical. Presoak your negs for 1-2 minutes before immersing them in the developer. This will promote more even diffusion of the developer into the emulsion. I also introduce each negative to the developer separately, giving it about 5 seconds of agitation alone before adding another. This is compensated for when transferring the negs to the stop, which is done in the same order and at the same time interval to ensure that the dev. time remains the same.

Part of your problem seems to be too-dense edges. The following may help:

Don't over-agitate the sheets by moving them up-and-down in the developer a lot. This can cause over-development on the edges. Instead, lift the neg out of the solution, let it drain just a little, then immerse it again, pushing it down slowly with the balls of your fingers. Too fast, and the edges get a lot of developer rushing by, i.e. more agitation than the center. More frequent but less vigourous agitation is usually the cure for this kind of unevenness.

Keep trying till you get it right. PMK is lovely stuff once you get the hang of it.

BTW, use gloves!

Good luck,

Doremus Scudder

Mark Sampson
31-Jan-2007, 13:11
I've found that the presoak is essential; however, rather than using plain water, I use a dilute (1%) Kodalk solution. This keeps the sheets from wanting to stick together, and I believe (but have not tested to prove) that this promotes even development as well. That may be in Mr. Hutchings' book; I started using Kodalk at least ten years back but don't remember where I learned it.

Sylvester Graham
31-Jan-2007, 15:01
Thanks for all the replies.

If it helps, I am using an 8X10 tray, I also have 2 minutes presoak (without the alkali solution), and steve, yuor article was the one I found in my first search, it was quite helpful.

Maybe all this will take is practice and trail and error, although, or course, I wouldn't be totally opposed to speeding up the process.
-Alex

Brian Ellis
31-Jan-2007, 22:27
If you get tired of standing over trays in the dark while inhaling chemical fumes you might look at the BTZS tubes. www.theviewcamerastore.com. I've used them for many years and much prefer them to the tray developing I used to do with 8x10 and PMK. With the tubes I've never had a problem with uneven development, never had a scratch, use only 2 ounces of chemistry per sheet, do everything in daylight once the tubes are loaded.

zoneVIII
1-Feb-2007, 07:26
If you get tired of standing over trays in the dark while inhaling chemical fumes you might look at the BTZS tubes. www.theviewcamerastore.com. I've used them for many years and much prefer them to the tray developing I used to do with 8x10 and PMK. With the tubes I've never had a problem with uneven development, never had a scratch, use only 2 ounces of chemistry per sheet, do everything in daylight once the tubes are loaded.

I make my own tubes from PVC for 4x5, it's give me excellent result, minimize scratcht and uneven development on my negs, with standing dev, when i want to agitate it, just rolling the tube for the time agitate

steve simmons
1-Feb-2007, 07:43
Anytime you work in the darkroom you need proper ventilation. That will take care of any noxious smells. Trays work fine. PMK is a very inexpensive develope to use.

steve simmons

Ken Lee
1-Feb-2007, 11:09
You might find it advantageous to use deeper and cheaper trays: the widely available plastic storage bins (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/tech.html#SheetFilm) that we find at discount stores.

If to that, you add the use of an infra-red viewing device (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/tech.html#Monocular), you will find that you get fewer scratches and more even agitation. Because you can see exactly what you are doing, you can also perform Development by Inspection. Not in the tradtional manner, where you take a brief peek under a dim safelight, but the entire process, from taking the film out of the holders, to fixing and beyond.

For what it's worth, I just tray-developed 10 5x7 and 8 4x5 negatives -together - at the same time. Using this combination of equipment, it was no big deal.

Sylvester Graham
2-Feb-2007, 20:32
Well, I'd love to use that combination, but from what I understand, those goggles cost quite a bit. Not sure if they would be worth it. Maybe I can just borrow yours... many of the landmarks in your photographs I drive by every day.

Jim MacKenzie
4-Feb-2007, 20:09
I don't use a pre-bath (maybe I should) but I do use 8x10 trays with about 1500 mL of developer in them. I get good results, and I'm still a newbie so I'm not sure my agitation technique is even optimal.

CP Goerz
4-Feb-2007, 23:07
A jobo with an expert drum and nitrogen is the absolute best I found, though I have heard the BZTs are pretty darn good as well.

steve simmons
5-Feb-2007, 08:33
One of the advantages of trays is that you can process multiple sheets at once for different times which can not be done in a closed system.

steve simmons

Chris Strobel
5-Feb-2007, 11:24
Wouldn't He need to change from standrd PMK to something like Rollo Pyro to use in film tubes?


If you get tired of standing over trays in the dark while inhaling chemical fumes you might look at the BTZS tubes. www.theviewcamerastore.com. I've used them for many years and much prefer them to the tray developing I used to do with 8x10 and PMK. With the tubes I've never had a problem with uneven development, never had a scratch, use only 2 ounces of chemistry per sheet, do everything in daylight once the tubes are loaded.

steve simmons
5-Feb-2007, 11:42
For a JOBO the Rollo Pyro is the best developer. The problem wih the BTZS tubes is that they do not allow the solution to circulate around the backside of the film so the stain is uneven. Ellis is not a user of staining developers and really does not seem to know much about them.

Trays, trays, trays, try them

The sloshers work well with PMK. They are available from Photographer's Formulary.

steve simmons

Chris Strobel
5-Feb-2007, 12:18
Hey Steve, while I've got your attention, Since I got into 8x10 I've been using hand rolled tubes and X-tol.I do have a Formulary PMK kit sitting here that I've been kinda spooked to try.Two questions here;

1.I only have a small bathroom and tub which is ventilated with a standard celing fan that sucks, and a forced air vent that blows in which I develop my negs.Will this be ok for working with PMK in trays?

2.I assume I want an 11x14 tray for the PMK, but could I get away with 8x10 trays for the stop and fix?

Also, doing one 8x10 neg at a time I assume for each new neg I use a fresh batch of PMK, or can I do a few negs before switching to fresh developer?

Thanks!

Chris



For a JOBO the Rollo Pyro is the best developer. The problem wih the BTZS tubes is that they do not allow the solution to circulate around the backside of the film so the stain is uneven. Ellis is not a user of staining developers and really does not seem to know much about them.

Trays, trays, trays, try them

The sloshers work well with PMK. They are available from Photographer's Formulary.

steve simmons

Chris Strobel
5-Feb-2007, 12:25
Also, doing one 8x10 neg at a time I assume for each new neg I use a fresh batch of PMK, or can I do a few negs before switching to fresh developer?



Actually now that I think about it since the fixed neg goes back into the developer tray for 2 min to induce stain, I'm not going to want to use it again am I :)

steve simmons
5-Feb-2007, 16:11
PMK is a one shot developer. Don't try using it a second time after it is mixed. It is so inepensive anyway.

steve simmons

leovan
6-Jul-2009, 22:02
Could you be a bit more specific about the location of this article? I have gone to the website but cannot find it on the list of free articles. As a longtime subscriber, I have most back issues, though. If it was published in the magazine, can you give me the month/year? Many thanks.

Jim MacKenzie
7-Jul-2009, 17:30
I've used PMK for 35mm and 120/220 for almost a decade and I have good luck with it. The key is frequent agitation, every 15 seconds for 2-3 seconds and the agitation must be violent and abrupt.

I can't agitate violently and abruptly in a tray without making a giant mess so my solution was to use the Jobo tanks and use them manually. I should probably tinker with adding EDTA and doing rotary processing. Pyrocat HD is a lot more tolerant of agitation regimen than PMK is but I like the tonality I get with PMK (and I love the near immortality of the stock solutions) so thus far I have stuck with my habits.

Rick Levine
7-Jul-2009, 19:17
I used to use PMK and the nitrogen system in my Jobo with a 3010 drum like Gordon Hutchings suggested and it worked quite well. Then I discovered Rollo Pyro and life became much easier. With the addition of ascorbic acid there is no need for the nitrogen. If you presoak with a solution of Kodalk (sodium metaborate) as stated in the instructions (the ones from Bostick & Sullivan) you should be fine.

Drew Wiley
7-Jul-2009, 22:24
I have no problem with this film in trays. For 4x5 I use an 8x10 tray, and for 8x10
film a tray of slightly over 11x14. These are special thin stainless steel trays with
dimpled bottoms and gently rolled edges, which rest in either a larger tray of water for temperature control or a special long plexiglas trough connected to a thermoregulator. I develop four sheet of 8x10 at a time, or six sheets of 4x5. The sheets are carefully shuffled once every 30sec emulsion up. Each cycle the sheets are rotated 90 degrees to give balanced development. All thick emulsion films seem to gain a little extra density near the perimeter in PMK. As long as this is consistent it is easily controlled either by burning in or by a correctly graduated diffuser in the enlarger. For 8x10 sheets I use a liter of solution, and for 4x5 500ml.