Photoshop with black and white

[Eric Brody]

In my 4x5 and medium format work, I shoot exclusively black and white, TMAX 100. I have recently begun a major foray (many $$$) into black and white hybrid digital with a Microtek 1800f scanner, Nikon 9000 scanner, and Epson 3800 printer. The few inkjet prints I have produced are very encouraging, even compared to my own darkroom prints, and I've been printing in the darkroom for 40+ years.

I have used Photoshop for a few years with my small format 35mm color work (scanned slides) and with direct digital color capture (Nikon DSLR). I am moderately familiar with using Photoshop in general and am currently using the CS3 beta. It is a quite impressive program, in my view. I have read Blatner and Fraser's Photoshop CS book and Martin Evening's CS2 book.

Neither of these resources answer my many questions about using Photoshop for black and white.

Does anyone know of a good resource for a person like myself, years of shooting 4x5, moderate though not extensive experience scanning, and moderate experience with Photoshop? Surely with the advent of high quality black and white printers such as the Epson 2400, and the *800 series, 3800, 4800, etc, and the new Canon and HP dye printers, someone can see a place for a book or monograph on monochrome image work with Photoshop.

Thanks for any help.

Eric

[John Brady]

Hi Eric, As you know this site has lots of talented people willing to share their knowledge. I will bet if you post some specific questions about what you are trying to accomplish in PS someone will be able to help you.

I have found many of the books on ps to be helpful even with black and white. I would just ignore the parts that are specific to color only. Many of the things are virtualy the same like levels, sharpening, dust removal, curves, sharpening and so on.

You will develop your own routine or workflow after alot of experimentation and research.

Good luck on your journey!
___________________
www.timeandlight.com

[Kirk Gittings]

There are many approaches that work, as anything in PS.

I'm fond of George DeWolfe's new book. The Digital Photography Fine Print Workshop. George is an expert printer and great photographer who studied with many of the old school masters before turning to digital. The book won't answer all your questions, but if you work your way through it, your work will improve dramatically.

http://www.amazon.com/George-DeWolfes-Digital-Photography-Workshop/dp/0072260874

[Frank Petronio]

I don't understand what is so exotic about working on B&W in PS? I don't mean it in jest, I used to be (bragging, I know) a decent silver printer. The same judgement is what makes the difference, there really aren't that many special skills.

Their are techniques and tips of course, and most of those apply to output methods. You can be in the Jon Cone camp or the Quadtone MIS camp or the Epson 38-4800 print driver camp... And honestly, because the technology changes on the printing side so frequently, we're better off with internet forums and the like.

[Kirk Gittings]

The same judgement is what makes the difference, there really aren't that many special skills.

I agree with Frank completely on this. Having said that, I had the rough draft of this book when I was making the transition and it helped enormously. I had allot of catching up to do. There is sooooooooooooooo much information (much of it contradictory) out there, that it is hard to sift through it all. George by the way is in a camp of his own even though he teaches at the Cone Workshops (amongst others).

[Ken Lee]

The issue with Photoshop - and other similar tools these days - is that you don't know what you don't know, and the tools keep evolving.

As it is with analog methods, it is with digital: You have to keep scratching around from time to time, to see what's new out there.

Perhaps you can find someone whose work you admire, and study with them, either briefly or in-depth. A few words from an expert are often worth their weight in... Palladium.

[Robert Brummitt]

Hello Eric.
Try Charles Cramer. He's been getting some fine results and there is QuadTone printing.
If you need CC email? I have it.;)

[tim atherton]

it also starts with getting a good file from the neg. Some prefer other ways (like Silverfast), but I like getting a 'raw" scan with Vuescan and then using a little piece of software called NegPos to convert it. Although mainly designed for colour neg, I find it does a really good job getting a very wide range of info into the positive file, which you can then change or compress to your liking

Mind you, both vuesacn and NegPos aren't quite user friendly - if you liked DOS3.1 you'll like them...

[Bruce Watson]

If you are comfortable with Pshop for color work, you probably know all you need to know for grayscale. Grayscale differs from color work in three key areas. First, if your caputure was color, you have to convert to grayscale. There are lots of different ways to do this, but you may not have to do it at all. I scan my B&W negs as grayscale, so I don't have a conversion to do.

Second and third, with grayscale you avoid color balancing, and dealing with saturation issues. They just don't exist in grayscale.

Everything else is about the same. You crop, spot, and sharpen the same way. You use levels and curves the same way, etc.

That said, I second the call out of George DeWolfe's new book. It's nicely done. Just about anyone will learn some new techniques from George, and the ones that aren't color specific apply just as much to grayscale work as to color.

[Ron Marshall]

I have read the two titles you mention, and all of the major PS texts. The best, for photographers (not designers or prepress etc.) that I have encountered, is PS Artistry, by Barry Haynes and Wendy Crumpler. Its explanations are simple, concise and comprehensive. It is directed at photographers and covers all of the topics required to go from a scan to a print. Highest recommendation.


In my 4x5 and medium format work, I shoot exclusively black and white, TMAX 100. I have recently begun a major foray (many $$$) into black and white hybrid digital with a Microtek 1800f scanner, Nikon 9000 scanner, and Epson 3800 printer. The few inkjet prints I have produced are very encouraging, even compared to my own darkroom prints, and I've been printing in the darkroom for 40+ years.

I have used Photoshop for a few years with my small format 35mm color work (scanned slides) and with direct digital color capture (Nikon DSLR). I am moderately familiar with using Photoshop in general and am currently using the CS3 beta. It is a quite impressive program, in my view. I have read Blatner and Fraser's Photoshop CS book and Martin Evening's CS2 book.

Neither of these resources answer my many questions about using Photoshop for black and white.

Does anyone know of a good resource for a person like myself, years of shooting 4x5, moderate though not extensive experience scanning, and moderate experience with Photoshop? Surely with the advent of high quality black and white printers such as the Epson 2400, and the *800 series, 3800, 4800, etc, and the new Canon and HP dye printers, someone can see a place for a book or monograph on monochrome image work with Photoshop.

Thanks for any help.

Eric

[PViapiano]

I agree with Ron re: the PS Artistry books (depending on which version of PS you own)...excellent introduction and filled with many useful tips and workflow ideas. This book was the mainstay of my PS education.

The Martin Evening book is another great resource.

Kirk, I want to check out the book you mentioned by DeWolfe.

Right now, I'm still using an older Canon S9000 printer (dye ink) on Epson Colorlife paper and the results are excellent, although there is room for improvement in a few areas.

[Ed Richards]

George Schaub, Digital Black and White Printing, Amphoto (2005). Lots of useful info and some good illustrations from a real black and white photographer.

[paulr]

I'd been using photoshop for years as a designer, but didn't feel that I knew enough of the high end techniques for serious photography. (particularly all the non-destructive tonal manipulation and burn and dodge tricks). I found that the Real World Photoshop book was almost everything I needed to bridge the gap.

As Tim mentions, there's the issue of scanning, and a lot of disagreement to go along with it. You can find different arguments articulated (or not) here, and also in various scanning newsgroups (a couple of good ones on yahoo).

As far as tweaking the images for your final output, you'll get a lot of tips from the cone or mis people (if you go one of those routes).

So yeah, there's a lot of new infomation. It's a bit of a learning curve, and I was frustrated for a while. In the end, though, you'll figure it out. If you know how to make a good print, you'll figure out any process one way or another.

[Brian Ellis]

For specific questions the best on-line resource I know of is the Yahoo digital black and white printing group digitalblackandwhite:theprint. I attended George deWolfe's digital black and white printing workshop at the Palm Beach Photographic Workshops several years ago and learned a lot from it. I don't know whether he still conducts that workshop or not. I haven't seen his book but if the workshop is any indication it should be a good book.

[Kirk Gittings]

Brian I don't know all the places GdW teaches, but at least at the Cone and Santa Fe Workshops he is a regular.

He also does one on one web tutoring or at least he did.

[Richard M. Coda]

Dan Burkholder's book, Making Digital Negatives, although the bulk is on this topic, offers some very helpful Photoshop tips such as non destructive dodging and burning using Soft Light layers. There are other tips but I found that one worth the price of the book. www.danburkholder.com

[jim kitchen]

Here is a feature within CS3 that looks interesting: http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/CS3Color_To_BWSM.mov

jim k

[Kirk Gittings]

Jim, That new color conversion feature in CS3 is very useful for converting color to b&w. I don't think that was what he was asking about though?

[jim kitchen]

Kirk,

Oooops, I thought Eric was looking for a way to convert a colour scan of a black and white negative, or colour capture to black and white...

It is an interesting feature in CS3, though.

jim k

[JW Dewdney]

How about this one? It's a bit older (!) but the principles and the tools are all the same. I've had it on my bookshelf for a WHILE. I'm sure Burkholder's and anything involving David Blatner are going to be better in depth and specificity though.

[JW Dewdney]

Seems like it would be much faster/more effective with channel ops... (?)


Kirk,

Oooops, I thought Eric was looking for a way to convert a colour scan of a black and white negative, or colour capture to black and white...

It is an interesting feature in CS3, though.

jim k