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Aaron van de Sande
18-Jan-2007, 13:45
What are you guys doing when you do sheet film with semi stand development? I was thinking of getting film tanks....

Ron Marshall
18-Jan-2007, 14:04
I use a Combi-Plan for semi-stand. It works well and the volume is appropriate. I have had good success with both HC-110 and Pyrocat-HD.

Amund BLix Aaeng
18-Jan-2007, 14:05
I`ve done semi-stand in a regular plastic 35mm tank, one 4x5 sheet at a time. Works great.

Aaron van de Sande
18-Jan-2007, 14:30
I should of specified that this would be 8x10... thanks for the replies though.

Ron Marshall
18-Jan-2007, 14:34
I should of specified that this would be 8x10... thanks for the replies though.

You could make your own tank for 8x10:

http://davidhoulder.com/info/4x5tanks.html

Amund BLix Aaeng
18-Jan-2007, 14:40
Aha, would be hard to squeeze a 8x10 into a 35mm tank. :)
Sandy King is using several open ended PVC tubes put into a larger tank with developer for semi-stand if I recall correctly, maybe you`ll find some info on it with a search.

Salty
18-Jan-2007, 15:20
I tried a Beseler 8x10 paper drum for stand development. It holds approximately 1500ml of developer and works well. If I want some form of agitation, I pour out approximately 3/4 of the developer and then pour it back it.

Bill_1856
18-Jan-2007, 15:32
What is "semi-stand?"

phil sweeney
18-Jan-2007, 15:47
I should of specified that this would be 8x10... thanks for the replies though.

Hi Aaron,

I use a 3" black ABS tube for the film. A 4 inch ABS tube for the developer. The 3" tube will float, so I use a 3" threaded cap (inside threads) with holes drilled in the top, and gently let it lower the tube for total immersion and cap the 4" tube. Lights on. To agitate I pull the 4" cap and the 3" cap then the tube floats up making it easy to grab and agitate (up and down 3 times and invert). 70ozs total solution and quite economical.

Ron Marshall
18-Jan-2007, 16:02
What is "semi-stand?"

Stand is no agitation during the time the film is in contact with the developer. Semi-stand is minimal agitation, say 10 seconds every three minutes, as opposed to normal regime of 10 seconds every 30 seconds.

With stand or semi-stand agitate continuously for the first minute to prevent uneven development.

With semi-stand and dilute developer, the developer will exhaust in the highlights during the stand phase, leading to a compensating effect that can be used to help control a large contrast range and prevent highlights from blocking. The effects achived depend on the length of the stand phase and the dilution of the developer. Development times must be extended approximately 50% and testing should be done to determine optimal times and dilutions.

snuck
18-Jan-2007, 16:05
I actually use a unicolor drum, with pretty decent results. I sit the drum vertically, fill it up, and agitate by hand.

Aaron van de Sande
19-Jan-2007, 10:55
I think I will try sandy's method, since it gives me the most options as far as batch size.

j.e.simmons
19-Jan-2007, 11:46
You can find tubes made for holding welding rods that work perfectly for 8x10. At some stores they are as little as $6.00 or so. JandC used to sell some that were black and light proof. I've seen others that are orange and need a coat of paint to be light proof. They have a solid bottom and a screw-on cap.
juan

Aaron van de Sande
19-Jan-2007, 11:50
I was just going to get a length of pvc and cut it up, and get a cheap stainless stock pot to put the tubes in.

Thank you all for your input.

Herb Cunningham
19-Jan-2007, 13:20
if I have a lot of negs, 8x10, I use ss hangers. I have a skinny tank that holds them and takes a lid, so I can do other stuff while I am between agitations. It uses more chemistry, but I mix my own, so that is not a big deal. I don't get surge marks as some do, but when I lift and lower it is VERY slowly.

John Berry
21-Jan-2007, 23:44
I made my own tanks out of 1/4 in clear acrylic. (thinner is too flexible) Clear so I could watch development with my night vision goggles. 10.5x10.5x2.5 INSIDE dimentions will be just right for 4 8x10 Kodak hangers and 4 liters of chemicals.

kmgibbs
23-Jan-2007, 13:48
I made my own tanks out of 1/4 in clear acrylic. (thinner is too flexible) Clear so I could watch development with my night vision goggles. 10.5x10.5x2.5 INSIDE dimentions will be just right for 4 8x10 Kodak hangers and 4 liters of chemicals.

Night vision goggles? What a cool idea.

Ken Lee
23-Jan-2007, 15:57
Night vision goggles? What a cool idea.

I use an Infra Red monocular (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/tech.html#Monocular). It is really a great help in the darkroom.

Andrew O'Neill
23-Jan-2007, 23:51
BTZS and home made tubes.

Ben Calwell
24-Jan-2007, 06:07
Semi-stand development has received a lot of attention recently as if it were something new, but didn't Ansel Adams describe a similar process more than 20 years ago in his book, "The Negative."
He described using highly dilute developers (HC110) with only occasional agitation as a way to control extreme contrast.

sanking
24-Jan-2007, 08:02
Semi-stand development has received a lot of attention recently as if it were something new, but didn't Ansel Adams describe a similar process more than 20 years ago in his book, "The Negative."
He described using highly dilute developers (HC110) with only occasional agitation as a way to control extreme contrast.


You can find stand and minimal development methods described in the literature in many references from the early 20th century so you are right in that it is not a new phenomenon, and many people who use it are aware of the historical roots. Many photographers have made use of reduced agitation schemes, including Atget who used a form of stand development, and Adams, who used a form of minimal agitation with HC110.

However, there are benefits that result from the use of reduced agitation, and some dangers as well, so discussing the issues again does no harm and may prevent folks from serious processing errors. Also, there are a number of new wrinkles to the methodology that were not used in the old days, i.e. tubes, infrared googles, nitrogen burst systems, etc.

Sandy

Alex Hawley
24-Jan-2007, 18:40
I was just going to get a length of pvc and cut it up, and get a cheap stainless stock pot to put the tubes in.

Aaron, white PVC will transmit light. If you use it, it needs to be painted or the lights need to be out. I found this out the hard way.

I use a Besler Unicolor print drum. It holds one 8x10 sheet or two 4x5s. Developer capacity is 2000 ml.

Aaron van de Sande
24-Jan-2007, 21:57
I was just going to load them in the dark and then put them in a stainless pot with a top. Maybe drape a black cloth over for good measure.


Aaron, white PVC will transmit light. If you use it, it needs to be painted or the lights need to be out. I found this out the hard way.

I use a Besler Unicolor print drum. It holds one 8x10 sheet or two 4x5s. Developer capacity is 2000 ml.

sanking
25-Jan-2007, 19:39
I was just going to load them in the dark and then put them in a stainless pot with a top. Maybe drape a black cloth over for good measure.

That will work fine. I develop 5X7" film in 2" ID white open-ended PVC tubes. I load the tubes in the dark, them plop them into a 11X14" Beseler drum filled with developer to about 1" over the height of the tubes (standing upright), pop on the lid and agitate. The lid stays on until the tubes are transferred to a stop bath, which I do in the tubes in a separate tray. Lights can go on as soon as the lid is on the drum. I finish by removing the film from the tubes and fixing in a tray. I do four agitation cycles, one at the beginning, the others at the 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 points of development. I can do six sheets at a time this way, with almost no danger of scratching. And most of the work is in the light.

Sandy King

sanking
26-Jan-2007, 09:24
I am going to add a couple of notes to my last message.

I generally pre-soak film for a couple of minutes when developing with minimal agtation procedures. This means that before placing the tubes (with the film) in the developer, I first place them in a water bath. I do this one at a time, briefly pulling the film out of the tube just as it goes into the water. Wetting the back of the film at this time assures that it will not stick to the side of the tubes and makes it easier to remove after develoment. If you don't pre-wet the film it will stick to the inside of the tube, which may cause scratches when you pull it out.

Most of my development at this time with minimal agitation procedures is with Pyrocat-HD 1.5:1:200. When developing six sheets of 5X7" film in tubes in the 11X14" Beseler drum this requires about 5 liters of solution. Because this is far more solution than the minimum that would be required to develop six sheets of 5X7" fllm I usually re-use the developer. Pyrocat-HD is intended to be used as a one-shot and discard solution, but in this special circumstance I find that results from the first and second use of the solution are almost identical, assuming the second batch is run within an hour or so after the first batch.

Sandy King

Aaron van de Sande
26-Jan-2007, 14:46
Thanks Sandy.
Is there a tube diameter you can recommend for 8x10?

Brad Rippe
26-Jan-2007, 15:12
I use 4 by 5 Tri-x in HC110 and was wondering if semi stand development would work in trays, or is there a reason everyone seems to use tubes for this technique. Also, I suppose the risk in semi stand is uneven development, especially in even tone areas like the sky. Is this true?
Thanks,
Brad

sanking
26-Jan-2007, 15:26
Thanks Sandy.
Is there a tube diameter you can recommend for 8x10?

For 8X10 you can use the commonly available 3" ID PVC tubes.


Sandy King

sanking
26-Jan-2007, 15:33
I use 4 by 5 Tri-x in HC110 and was wondering if semi stand development would work in trays, or is there a reason everyone seems to use tubes for this technique. Also, I suppose the risk in semi stand is uneven development, especially in even tone areas like the sky. Is this true?
Thanks,
Brad

Processing in trays and in hangers is problematic, although some people have gotten good results with both. One method that works well for a lot of people is the cradle/slosher and I recommend it, along with tubes standing on end.

And yes, the greatest risk of stand and semi-stand development is uneveness, especially in areas where large areas of even tones of low and high density meet. To minimize this problem make sure that you give very vigorous agitation at the beginning of development, for 1-1.5 minutes, and then for 10-15 seconds at every subsequent agitation.

Sandy King