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Gary Smith
15-Jan-2007, 18:03
Hi All,

These past few days I have had some discussions with Toyo Rep in Tokyo, and will be meeting him on a trip down there on Monday. He said on the phone, if there were enough orders, they would probably consider doing a special production run. He said, if I could give him some firm number of how many holders I would want he could try and get some prices as well as look into the feasibility of it all.

Still no final promises at this point, but so far they have not said no. If you are really interested in some holders please post here with the number of holders you would be interested in by Saturday. I am leaving for Tokyo, Sunday morning Japan time for a meeting of Japanese APUGers, as well as the Tokyo B/W forum and would like to have numbers in hand before I leave. I probably wont be able to check my email or anything else from Saturday pm (America time) until Monday am (America time)

Thanks again.

Gary

Sal Santamaura
15-Jan-2007, 18:18
Gary, thanks for your initiative on this.

The quantity I'll purchase depends on price. If they cost close to what Toyo 4x5 holders retail for, 12 feels right. If they're closer to typical Toyo 8x10 holder prices, a maximum of 6.

timbo10ca
15-Jan-2007, 19:50
I'd probably be in for 3-6 twin packs (I assume that's how they come), depending on the price. Thanks for giving a fresh 5x7-er hope. I really appreciate all the work you're puting into this.

Tim

Capocheny
15-Jan-2007, 19:51
Hi Gary,

Again, thank you for taking the time to go through all this trouble for the benefit of us 5x7 users. :)

I'll do 6 for the time being... perhaps more depending on the pricing.

Cheers

resummerfield
15-Jan-2007, 19:53
I want to order as many as possible, but I need to keep the total price for these holders below 1K. So if the price of these new 5x7 holders approximates that of the 8x10 holders, then a maximum of 6 new 5x7's; if the price is cheaper, then Ill take more, up to a maximum of 20 new 5x7's. And thanks, Gary, for taking the time to work on this.

S. Preston Jones
15-Jan-2007, 20:20
I will take up to 12, depending on the price.

Andrey Donchev
15-Jan-2007, 21:33
Hi, I'll buy up to 20 depending on their cost! Thank you very much for your effort!

Andy

Kevin Crisp
15-Jan-2007, 21:42
I'd be happy to get 6. Thanks. Kevin

Jimi
16-Jan-2007, 04:02
It all depends on what they would cost - but I'd be prepared to buy something like 6-10 holders. Of course I could always get a bunch of used holders, but I'd like to get a few new ones also.

Nick_3536
16-Jan-2007, 06:18
Like the other guys depends on price.

Geary Lyons
16-Jan-2007, 09:23
I woud be interested in 6-10, as with all others posting, price will determine final commitment.
cheers,
Geary

JJ Viau
16-Jan-2007, 09:39
Id also be in for 8 to 10 pieces!

JJ

Dave Wooten
16-Jan-2007, 09:41
6-10

Steve Hamley
16-Jan-2007, 11:51
6-10

Steve

lutherasmith
16-Jan-2007, 13:02
5X7 Portra is no longer available. What film are you shooting with 5X7?

Luther

Herb Cunningham
16-Jan-2007, 14:06
I am in for six.

Scott Davis
16-Jan-2007, 14:26
Count me in for 4-10 depending on price.

Dave Aharonian
16-Jan-2007, 16:57
I'd be happy to get 5-6 of these.

Dave

Ted Harris
16-Jan-2007, 17:42
I'm watchin. Don't really need any right now but for the right price would get 10.

Ant word back on price and minimum order?

Keiske
16-Jan-2007, 18:19
6-10

bglick
17-Jan-2007, 09:59
About 12 based on price... please advise

Gary Smith
17-Jan-2007, 18:41
Hi All,

Let me clarify so people arent waiting around for a price. I have been in contact with the rep from Toyo, but they want to meet in person to discuss the order, which is not that uncommon here. Also I live nearly 300 miles (500km) from Tokyo, so I dont get down there very often, only once a month, if I am lucky. If we get enough orders to meet their minimum requirements then I will be able to get a price. At this point, until I met the rep on Monday I wont have any information and may not get an exact answer until a week or more after that. The only thing he did indicated on the phone at this point, was the idea is feasible, but no pricing was stated. When pushed, he said probably somewhere between the 8x10 and 4x5 holder costs. Which are roughly 45.00 and 90.00USD respectively.

Once I met with him, he will have to discuss everything with the head office, which is in Osaka(600 miles from here/1000km) and then get back to me. Its a rather slow process, which my real job and the distance from here to Tokyo slow it down somewhat. Its my hope, I can get firm answer before the first of the month.

Right now between this thread and some private emails that I have received the current total is nearing 200 holders. Hopefully its enough!

I will keep everybody informed as I get new information.

Thanks for your understanding.

Gary

abel
17-Jan-2007, 18:47
I woud be interested in purchasing six to ten depending on the price.

Robert Skeoch
17-Jan-2007, 19:16
6-20 depending on price
-
rob

Sal Santamaura
17-Jan-2007, 19:33
...Thanks for your understanding.

GaryThank us???? No, Thank YOU for investing so much time and effort on our behalf. Anyone who participated in the pooled amidol purchase knows you're going to run into challenges. Hang in and don't worry if it takes a while!

benkavision
17-Jan-2007, 19:45
I will take 10 film holders and I hope the price will be approximately less than 1K. Thanks.

Turner Reich
17-Jan-2007, 20:04
6 would be nice.

Michael Graves
18-Jan-2007, 06:07
If the price isn't too high, I'll spring for 6.

Michael Kadillak
18-Jan-2007, 08:14
Thanks Gary for being so unselfish with your time. Let us know and we will all get it together to pull this off. Hats off to you! Start thinking about a convenient way that we can get payment to you.

Cheers

Steve Clark
18-Jan-2007, 09:07
Possibly six. Also, you may want to contact Jim at Midwest and see if thier store would be interested some.

Michael Kadillak
18-Jan-2007, 19:41
Possibly six. Also, you may want to contact Jim at Midwest and see if thier store would be interested some.

Excellent idea. How about Badger as well?

I am going to cross my fingers until we have something that we can take to the bank.

Cheers!

Chuck Pere
19-Jan-2007, 06:39
I could go 4-6 depending on final pricing.

Michael Alpert
19-Jan-2007, 09:44
Gary,

Thank you for your effort. I too am interested, but the number I actually will want to purchase will depend on the final price and schedule. Thanks again.

Ole Tjugen
19-Jan-2007, 10:28
Ten, if I can afford them.

Bill Mitchell
20-Jan-2007, 06:09
Add my name to the list. Up to 10, depending on the price.
Thanks Gary,

BILL MITCHELL

Justin Cormack
20-Jan-2007, 07:28
Put me down for 6, possibly more depending on price.

Gary Smith
20-Jan-2007, 13:33
Hi All,

Its 5:30AM here in Japan and I am leaving for Tokyo within the hour. I am not sure how this will go or how long it will take, but I hopefully they will make us some holders.

THanks again to everyone, and I will let you know how it goes in a couple of days.

Gary

Kevin Crisp
20-Jan-2007, 21:21
Hi Gary. If the price isn't outlandish can I up my 6 to 10?

robby parkman
20-Jan-2007, 23:45
I will take 6.. Thanks for the effort

Gregory Ng
21-Jan-2007, 06:00
I will also take 6. Thanks

Gary Smith
23-Jan-2007, 03:26
Hi All,

Just a quick update to the meeting. I met with the Toyo Rep yesterday and we discussed the order. He said that he feels there seems to be enough interest to proceed. He said if they did agree to a production run, the price would likely be between the cost of the 4x5 and 8x10 holders. Which would probably be in the 55 to 80 dollar range per holder. What will happen next is he will discuss all of this with the main office and get back to me a in a couple of weeks if its feasible.

So not much to report at this point, but I thought I would update everybody.

Thanks!

Gary

Kevin Crisp
23-Jan-2007, 06:51
Thanks Gary, for going to all this trouble. I'm still very interested.

Herb Cunningham
23-Jan-2007, 08:02
Since I do negotiations for a living, maybe it would help Toyo to be kind on the price if they had a deposit up front? Money talks.

Joe Forks
23-Jan-2007, 11:00
Put me down for 6.

Best
Joe

Christopher Perez
23-Jan-2007, 12:04
Gary, this is good information. Good luck with this venture. At the proposed prices I think you'll have plenty of buyers (me included).

Here's to hoping Toyo goes through with a build. :)

Turner Reich
30-Jan-2007, 13:21
How's the time frame looking Gary?

Gary Smith
31-Jan-2007, 03:12
How's the time frame looking Gary?


Its only been 9 days since I met the rep, and they said at least two weeks. I will be going back down there again next week, and I am planning on meeting him again. Knowing how smaller firms work here, it could be a while before I get firm answer.

When I learn anything I will keep everybody posted.

Thanks.

Gary

Turner Reich
31-Jan-2007, 03:36
Thank you, I am in no hurry and it's fun to watch it develop.

tr

Lew Herman
18-Feb-2007, 05:33
Hi All,

These past few days I have had some discussions with Toyo Rep in Tokyo, and will be meeting him on a trip down there on Monday. He said on the phone, if there were enough orders, they would probably consider doing a special production run. He said, if I could give him some firm number of how many holders I would want he could try and get some prices as well as look into the feasibility of it all.

Still no final promises at this point, but so far they have not said no. If you are really interested in some holders please post here with the number of holders you would be interested in by Saturday. I am leaving for Tokyo, Sunday morning Japan time for a meeting of Japanese APUGers, as well as the Tokyo B/W forum and would like to have numbers in hand before I leave. I probably wont be able to check my email or anything else from Saturday pm (America time) until Monday am (America time)

Thanks again.

Gary

Lew Herman
18-Feb-2007, 05:36
Gary,
I would be interested in four to eight holders, depending upon price.

evan clarke
18-Feb-2007, 07:58
Boy, I bought a bunch of Fidelity 5x7 holders from J&C for $33 each.. Am I glad...EC

AlaBill
18-Feb-2007, 08:23
Gary...

I want 10-15 when they are ready to order

Bill

bglick
18-Feb-2007, 11:21
Not sure if we are doubling up on what we wrote earlier, or why the request was re posted, but based on price, I will take 12 - 20 of them..

Bill G

Scott Squires
20-Feb-2007, 11:18
I would be interested in 12 holders.

Thanks for the effort!

Scott
www.scottsquires.com

Harold_4074
20-Feb-2007, 14:43
Sorry not to have gotten a word in before today, but the holiday Monday slipped in there. I would be happy to take twelve holders, at a "reasonable" price. I understand that we are talking about a special run of something otherwise out of production, so the price will presumably reflect that.

Gregory Ng
20-Feb-2007, 21:17
I said I wanted six. Now I would like twelve. Thanks

lutherasmith
6-Mar-2007, 14:37
I am interested in purchasing new 5x7 holders. I bought some 5x7 chrome film from badgergraphic.com. It looks good. I do miss the portra 5x7 film.


Luther

M Salhuana
7-Mar-2007, 15:47
I would like to purchase 10 possibly more depending on the price.

Regards,

Miguel

Rafael Garcia
8-Mar-2007, 17:45
I'll wait until ya'all sell them used... too high for me (amateur with plenty old wooden holders).

Michael Whiting
3-Sep-2007, 16:35
Hi:

I am just finding out about this thread, sadly.

Can anyone tell me if this deal went thru? If so, are there any left that I can purchase? If not, can you tell me what happened?

Thanks.

-Mike

David Karp
3-Sep-2007, 17:13
I don't know about this deal. Others will have to help there.

However, it does appear that others are stepping into the breach. Fotoman, Chamonix, and possibly another company (whose product may become available through one of the well-known U.S. camera manufacturers) seem to be either already making, or soon to be making, 5x7 holders.

The Fotoman holders are to be based on the Toyo design. The others are made of wood.

Michael Alpert
4-Sep-2007, 08:48
Michael,

See the following thread for one option. Fotoman is also actively working on new 5x7 holders. The Toyo holders were going to be more expensive, so the plan that Gary Smith initiated was shelved.


http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=28301&highlight=shen-hao+5x7

Capocheny
4-Sep-2007, 13:41
Apparently, Chamonix is also making 5x7 holders... and, according to Jack F, he says they're well made.

Cheers

Nick_3536
16-Sep-2007, 03:41
FWIW last week I ordered some of the Shen Hao 5x7 holders from badger. I received them yesterday.

They're wooden. I haven't put them on the scale to check weight but they seem light.

I've no idea if the other new holders coming on the market will be better but these were for sale now.

lutherasmith
24-Apr-2008, 14:12
I just purchased some new Fidelity holders 5x7 holders from Calumet Photo.

Brand New!

Amazing,

Jan Pedersen
24-Apr-2008, 14:39
Thanks for the heads up. Calumet must have found a hidden stash in the basement :)

Iga
24-Apr-2008, 22:37
Depends on price. I would take 6 holders.
Igor.

Noeyedear
25-Apr-2008, 10:40
5 for me.
Kevin.

Steve Hamley
13-Dec-2011, 12:56
Folks,

This order did not go because of the cost of the holders, but we've brought the subject, and interest, up again in r.e.'s WTB thread.

So I called Jeff Taugner at Badger Graphic, and he said he was involved but did not remember the price, but I seem to recall it was marginally more than the 8x10 holders. Remember, Toyo will have to make the molds for these holders, it isn't just dusting off the equipment.

Therefore, assuming the holders are $250 each, who wants how many?

He did say Acros might be a lot easier to do, so I'll also start a thread for a current order.

Cheers, Steve

GabrielSeri
13-Dec-2011, 13:04
$250 each? haha I thought Gary said between $45-$90, then again that was 4 years ago.

Michael Alpert
13-Dec-2011, 13:12
Thank you for pushing this idea. I think 5x7 is the friendliest format around. But do you really mean $250.00. The price of the 8x10 holders was lately around $180.00. Also, Toyo would have to guarantee that the holders would be free of the odor that is sometime a problem (perhaps the only problem) with their holders.

Sal Santamaura
13-Dec-2011, 13:58
...Also, Toyo would have to guarantee that the holders would be free of the odor that is sometime a problem (perhaps the only problem) with their holders.Sometimes? Always with recent production! :(

r.e.
13-Dec-2011, 14:33
I just spoke with Badger Graphic about Toyo 8x10 holders. They are currently on backorder. More importantly, they say that they have had no complaints about smell and that they don't even know about the issue. It sounds like this was a problem with a particular production run or runs.

Steve Hamley
13-Dec-2011, 14:40
Yes, as a working number. That's exactly why the last order, in which there was CONSIDERABLE interest, never went.

I don't know the price, but I do remember the last estimate was at least equal to the 8x10s, and IIRC, a tad more.

Cheers, Steve

Sal Santamaura
13-Dec-2011, 15:04
I just spoke with Badger Graphic about Toyo 8x10 holders. They are currently on backorder. More importantly, they say that they have had no complaints about smell and that they don't even know about the issue. It sounds like this was a problem with a particular production run or runs.Nope, it's a problem that can sometimes be noticed more than others depending on ambient temperature and relative humidity as well as the olfactory sensitivity of different observers. Definitely consistent since Sakai started molding its parts in China. Very much like all the other reeking (insert product descriptions here) one usually gets from China.

It's really a shame. There are so many Chinese products, including Toyo film holders, which are top notch except for the country's lack of environmental controls. That manifests not only in working conditions for employees there, but also with materials of dubious safety for the end user.

It has become difficult today to purchase many things that don't reek, especially including textile products. In the realm of camera bags, the only ones I've found of fabric that doesn't offend are f64, which are made in Vietnam. Caveat emptor...

Steve Hamley
13-Dec-2011, 15:36
Yep, got a bag bellows that smells like that. From the US!

Cheers, Steve

r.e.
13-Dec-2011, 16:12
Folks,

This order did not go because of the cost of the holders, but we've brought the subject, and interest, up again in r.e.'s WTB thread.

So I called Jeff Taugner at Badger Graphic, and he said he was involved but did not remember the price, but I seem to recall it was marginally more than the 8x10 holders. Remember, Toyo will have to make the molds for these holders, it isn't just dusting off the equipment.

Therefore, assuming the holders are $250 each, who wants how many?

He did say Acros might be a lot easier to do, so I'll also start a thread for a current order.

Cheers, Steve

Steve, I'm having trouble squaring the first post in this thread, which was apparently based on a direct meeting with Toyo, and your cost estimate. I know that prices have gone up some in five years, but 300%+? Was the first post way off base?

Also, are you saying that Toyo has never made 5x7 holders and would have to tool up for it? If so, that puts a different complexion on matters, but it is also hard to square with the first post. If it's a new product, it's also hard to understand why this would be done through a middleman like Badger.

Steve Hamley
13-Dec-2011, 16:25
No, they were more than the 8x10 holders for the proposed orderin 2007. In 2011, 8x10 holders are roughly $200 each. So "more" than $200 is about $250. Otherwise it would be about $300. :D

They've never made them in modern times in the current style. Maybe not at all. I seem to remember 5x7 Toyos of the Rittreck-era, with a cast or stamped aluminum light trap housing. I also seem to remember that there was something dimensionally different about them too. But I don't vouch for any of this.

But I'm sure I heard something somewhere and that would be ... HERE! That would be a search!

Cheers, Steve

r.e.
13-Dec-2011, 16:50
Steve,

I should have said, the post at the start of page two of the thread. It reads:



Hi All,

Just a quick update to the meeting. I met with the Toyo Rep yesterday and we discussed the order. He said that he feels there seems to be enough interest to proceed. He said if they did agree to a production run, the price would likely be between the cost of the 4x5 and 8x10 holders. Which would probably be in the 55 to 80 dollar range per holder. What will happen next is he will discuss all of this with the main office and get back to me a in a couple of weeks if its feasible.

So not much to report at this point, but I thought I would update everybody.

Thanks!

Gary

Anyway, you know what transpired and I don't :)

Steve Hamley
13-Dec-2011, 17:29
I'm not sure I do, but we should know about the here-and-now next week, maybe. I think at $80 per holder the order would have gone.

Cheers, Steve

Sal Santamaura
13-Dec-2011, 21:03
Yep, got a bag bellows that smells like that. From the US!...And where did the US bellows manufacturer source its fabric? :)

r.e.
13-Dec-2011, 21:13
I'm not sure I do, but we should know about the here-and-now next week, maybe. I think at $80 per holder the order would have gone.

Cheers, Steve

Well I wonder whether the problem was that one, if not two, middlemen got involved in the transaction, and that the price doubled or more. Given what Gary Smith said from Japan about probable price, one as got to ask whether this is what pulled the legs out from under the transaction.

I'm interested in buying 5x7 Toyo holders, but not if the price is going to go up 100% or more because somebody has decided to do the deal through a middleman, especially if it is efectively a co-op order on a product that is otherwise unavailable.

With the greatest respect, given that the first order fell apart due to price, why are people talking to a middleman instead of directly to Toyo?

I really don't understand why someone can't just talk with Toyo or Sakai, either in person or over Skype (not available last time around) and get various prices tied to the number of orders. If someone can give me the phone number, and if Toyo has people who are fluent in English, I'm prepared to make the call myself, although it might be preferable if the call was made by someone in Japan, or fluent in Japanese, or who uses their cameras. As for Sakai, a quick Internet check suggests, rightly or wrongly, that it may be based in South Korea.

Oren Grad
13-Dec-2011, 22:00
As for Sakai, a quick Internet check suggests, rightly or wrongly, that it may be based in South Korea.

Headquarters is in Osaka:

http://www.toyoview.co.jp/sub1.html

Yes, it would be preferable for someone local, fluent in Japanese, to be an intermediary.

If you explore the links on the left, you'll see that the product line is primarily machine tools, not cameras.

Herb Cunningham
14-Dec-2011, 06:38
I no longer shoot enough LF to justify any new stuff. I can't believe it was 4 years!

John Schneider
14-Dec-2011, 11:00
They've never made them in modern times in the current style. Maybe not at all. I seem to remember 5x7 Toyos of the Rittreck-era, with a cast or stamped aluminum light trap housing. I also seem to remember that there was something dimensionally different about them too. But I don't vouch for any of this.

I was looking for a long-lost Heliopan step-down ring last night, and in desperation I looked in my boxes of sheet holders (disused since stepping "down", temporarily I hope, to 612 and 617; since a new child). I found four Toyo WP holders and they are indeed wooden with metal trim. They're the same size as my modern S&S WP holders, but they do look remarkably like the Rittreck holders (WP? 5x7?) I used to have when I owned one of those beast cameras.

Oren Grad
14-Dec-2011, 11:17
I found four Toyo WP holders and they are indeed wooden with metal trim. They're the same size as my modern S&S WP holders, but they do look remarkably like the Rittreck holders (WP? 5x7?) I used to have when I owned one of those beast cameras.

The Rittreck WP holders were made - or at least branded - by Tachihara. The dimensions are different from those of vintage Eastman or modern Chamonix holders, and they're not fully interchangeable.

Anyway, if Toyo 5x7 holders exist, I'd speculate that they're in the same style as your Toyo WP holders. I wonder whether Toyo made half-plate holders for their metal field camera whose "native" format was 4 3/4 x 6 1/2.

jackpie
16-Dec-2011, 14:22
I wonder whether Toyo made half-plate holders for their metal field camera whose "native" format was 4 3/4 x 6 1/2.

Indeed they did.

They made non standard half plate holders that were much more compact and lighter than standard 5x7 size half plate holders. A perfect match for their light and compact camera.