What do you do for real backpacking like 4 daytrips

[riooso]

Hello,
I have been for the topic to come up and have done searches, but to no avail. I already have a good Lowepro backpack for my 4X5 Toyo AX and 3 lenses that I really like. It is very functional and really fits my needs nicely. I want to know what do you guys do for backpacking for 4 or 5 days? I have a Gregory 70 L. pack and have the photobackpacker cases for all my stuff. I guess I would just transfer the camera gear over the backpacking pack but I do not know where to put it all, top, bottom ....... I am new to backpacking but this camera is leading me in directions that I never dreamed of! You guys always come up with ideas that would never occur to me without trial and error, and error sucks!

Thanks,
Richard

[Ron Marshall]

When I put my gear into a large pack I usually put it into a dry-bag (the type used for gear stowage in kayaking). Keeps it together and keeps out dust and of course water. Then it goes in last for quick access.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Richard,

For multiday backpacking trips, I carry my camera gear in a small, lightweight daypack. I've used a number of different models over the years. Here's a photo of one, a Northface Yavapai ca. 1999, complete with all my camera gear (minus tripod) from a 6-day trip I took several years ago.

http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/images/toho17.jpg

This daypack then goes in the top section of my Kelty Super Tioga backpack (along with my clothes). It's right there on top when I need it. The tripod gets strapped horizontally to the frame across the top of the pack with a couple bungee cords. And, once I set up camp, I can take of with the daypack, tripod in hand, for some photography - leaving the big, heavy pack at my campsite.

Kerry

[Vaughn]

It has been awhile -- since I moved up to 8x10 and my equipment weighs 60 pounds!

But back when my back and knees were younger, I went on many 7 to 11 day trips with my 4x5 -- as well as a 5 month bike tour thru New Zealand with it.

Like Kerry, I had a large daypack that all the 4x5 equipment could fit into (minus pod). The daypack was originally strapped to the back of my main backpack -- eventually I got a larger main pack (a Gregory) in which the loaded camera pack could go into (much more stable hiking). And like Kerry, I would take long dayhikes out of a basecamp.

I used a Gowland 4x5 Pocketview (about 2.5 pounds with the Calumet 150mm on it) and would take 6 film holders and changing bag. Had a Gitzo 301 and a Gitzo Ball 2 head. I think all the gear was about 25 pounds total (including the daypack). Back then I only owned one lens, so I was not tempted to take multiple lenses. You might consider taking only one or two, if weight/space is an issue.

Each 4x5 holder went into a quart ziplock to keep the dust out. Since the camera pack went into the main pack -- and that had a rain cover, I figured that was protected from rain enough.

If it works better for you, you could stuff your camera gear in various places inside your Gregory, and have a daypack that you could sort of roll up and strap to the outside of your Gregory until you needed it.

vaughn

[riooso]

Outstanding ideas, as usual.

Thanks a lot,
Richard

[sbacon]

For multi-day trips, I have an REI Mars backpack. I use a Lowepro Omni Traveler case for my 4x5, lenses and accessories and a Gnass holder for Readyload holder and film. The camera gets packed towards the top, for access and weight distribution. Tent, sleeping bag, pad, clothes, stove, food, etc. are distributed throughout the rest of the pack. Tripod straps nicely on one side. Before I got the Mars backpack, I used to strap a daypack to the outside for day-trips away from base camp. But the Mars cinches down sufficiently to use with only the camera and a day's worth of gear.

[Bill_1856]

Re: What do you do for real backpacking like 4 daytrips?

Best Western.

[Walter Calahan]

Frankly, I don't do LF, I take a Leica M6 with lenses. Sorry to disappoint everyone. My Bad.

[Robert Oliver]

I carry a gowland all-moves pocket view in a day pack. Replace the allen wrench bolts with small handles or knobs because allen wrenches get lost in the middle of nowhere. It's not the most stable camera but at 2-3 pounds it's a lot better than 6+. With a 300mm you really have to wait for the wind to stop blowing.

Fuji and kodak ready loads held by a kodak readyload holder (way lighter than the polaroid 545i).


90mm f8, 180mm f5.6 and a 300mm f9. Stuck way up high in a Kelty Tioga kitchen sink toting external frame.

Next trip I want to figure out a way to mount the camera daypack to the outside of the pack with the tripod so I don't have to open up the pack. might save 30 seconds but then again I like having it inside for protection against little rain. Don't forget your pack cover.

The best advice I can give is to travel with a buddy or two so you don't have to carry everything by yourself or really practice ultralight backpacking (except for the LF gear.)

Another great thing is to take some Tyvek sheets. Great protection from moisture and you can make a shelter, raincoat, pack cover and the noisiest light diffuser you have ever heard.

[Harley Goldman]

I use Kerry's methodology. I have the small daypack. I take my Toho with 3 lenses, 80, 150 and 240. I keep all the camera gear in the day pack and then keep Quickloads in the box, except I take the film out of the foil and put it in ziplocks. I can fit 30 QL's in each box that way. I usually take a couple of boxes of film. I have a Gitzp 1127 and RRS BH-40 head. I carry a bungee cord to hook to the hook on the center post of the tripod. Stomp on that with a boot and the tripod is rock solid.

[riooso]

Bill I hear you but when I went to Hawaii my wife forced me to go backpacking for 5 mile day trips. I thought it would be boring and a pain in the butt. I loved it! There are shots that I got that would not have been possible from the car. The buddy system is hard because I put the limit on my wife to a total of 20 pounds and I am the pack mule that gets the rest. I have gotten my camera gear down to 11 pounds without tripod. Toyo AX 4X5-90mm,150mm,240mm. The trouble with the tripod is that it is a Berlabeck, 7 pounds but no head attached, just the ball center post with quick connect. I really like the day pack Idea!

Thanks as always,
Richard

[Robert Oliver]

I'm carrying a 190mf3 bogen carbon fiber with a tiny bogen 3-way magfiber head. Haven't weighed it, but it's pretty light. It's worked pretty well. I don't use it near the car, but for off the beaten path it's pretty cool. Working height is pretty low, but It goes to super low to 4' (approx) definitely hang some weight off the center post to pre-flex it.

I'm also the pack mule on my trips. But as my kids get older, they can take more of their own stuff and more importantly as I get older carry more of mine.

[riooso]

Oh, ok! I need to ask this. I have a Berlebeck 2040 which has a ball head built in so I just added a Bogen 577 quick disconnect. I put a Toyo 45 AX on it with the column up and it always gives me sharp images even multiple exposures. Total weight is 7 pounds. Is there really something wrong in using just the balled center column on the Berlebeck? It is as solid as a rock but not very small. With a good head what will some of the lighter Carbon tripods weigh? This one area that I have to start getting a grip on this tripod can be a killer on a long packing trip. It is big for one thing and that is probably what you get with the Carbons smaller packing size, right?

Do not know how this will fit into the thread but I am really starting to need to know these answers because spring is around the corner.

Thanks,
Richard

[Robert Oliver]

I sure like lashing my super small carbon fiber tripod to the top of my tripod. It doesn't get tangled in the trees any more than my backpack frame. I couldn't imagine carrying a big heavy tripod. I try to keep my camera/tripod weight as much as problem so I can make sure I carry essential gear that will save my life in an emergency and not be so heavy that I won't enjoy my trip.

[naturephoto1]

Oh, ok! I need to ask this. I have a Berlebeck 2040 which has a ball head built in so I just added a Bogen 577 quick disconnect. I put a Toyo 45 AX on it with the column up and it always gives me sharp images even multiple exposures. Total weight is 7 pounds. Is there really something wrong in using just the balled center column on the Berlebeck? It is as solid as a rock but not very small. With a good head what will some of the lighter Carbon tripods weigh? This one area that I have to start getting a grip on this tripod can be a killer on a long packing trip. It is big for one thing and that is probably what you get with the Carbons smaller packing size, right?

Do not know how this will fit into the thread but I am really starting to need to know these answers because spring is around the corner.

Thanks,
Richard

Hi Richard,

I do not think that you have seen the Gitzo 1257LVL and the 1258LVL tripods. They have leveling built in. By replacing the long column of my1257LVL tripod with the short column my tripod weighs 53.8 oz. I can carry this with my Markins M20 head and Kirk 2 1/2" Arca Type QR (together 20.4 oz). The tripod has 15 degrees of rotation in all directions. If I wished I could purchase the Really Right Stuff PCL-1 Panning QR clamp which would weigh 10.4 oz. I could then carry a tripod with a Panning QR clamp weighing 64.2 oz. I have included the attached photos below of the tripod and the RRS PCL-1 Panning QR clamp.

Rich

[riooso]

Thanks Nature for the input. Yes I have seen the 1257 tripod and was really going that direction. How do you like the stability? I am new to a lot of this and I am wondering why the heads at all? What job do they perform? If one were to put a quick disconnect on the column you would get the 15 degrees. Do the heads give you more than 15 degrees which I suppose would be nice on a mountain top. Sorry about all the questions but this is really my last stumbling block with the tripod situation. My Berlebeck is stable to the point that it is hard to get another pod because I am always comparing.

Thanks,
Richard

[naturephoto1]

Thanks Nature for the input. Yes I have seen the 1257 tripod and was really going that direction. How do you like the stability? I am new to a lot of this and I am wondering why the heads at all? What job do they perform? If one were to put a quick disconnect on the column you would get the 15 degrees. Do the heads give you more than 15 degrees which I suppose would be nice on a mountain top. Sorry about all the questions but this is really my last stumbling block with the tripod situation. My Berlebeck is stable to the point that it is hard to get another pod because I am always comparing.

Thanks,
Richard

Hi Richard,

First of all what I am talking about is the 1257LVL and not the 1257 tripod. The 1257 does not have the leveling built in while the 1257LVL does. The pan and tilt or the ball heads will give much more than 15 degrees of movement. They can allow for 90 or more degrees if they are necessary for some purposes. But the heads will add generally an additional 6 or so ounces to several additional pounds to the weight of the RRS PCL-1 Panning clamp as an example. You would have to plan on using your tripod according to what you are carrying and the intent of what you are requiring. But, to able to get a tripod down to about 4 pounds of weight for backpacking it is a consideration.

As to the question of putting a QR plate onto the center column of the 1257LVL you would still have the 15 degrees of adjustment available. The problem with just a normal QR plate affixed to the column on the newer carbon fiber Gitzo tripods however is that these tripods now have a groove that prevents the column to rotate. As a result a normal QR on these tripods lacks any panning ability. That is the reason for the purchase of either a RRS PCL-1 Panning clamp or mounting a normal QR on a panning head.

As to the question of the stability of the 1257LVL and the 1257 as an example, it should be quite stable if you use a cord or a bungee cord that is attached to the hook hung from the bottom of the normal or short column of the tripod. You can either stand on the cord or attach the cord to your pack as an example to increase the effective mass of the tripod. The 1257LVL and 1257 tripods are supposed to be able to support 17.6 pounds but without using the center column I would suspect they will support much more. By using the weight tied to the hook on the center column you will lessen the flex in the tripod legs and and this should increase the load capacity of the tripod and also as mentioned increase the effective mass of the tripod.

Many of us avoid the usage of center columns at all to avoid the effect of placing a monopod on top of a tripod. that is part of the reason that many of us will replace the normal column of our Gitzo tripods with either the short column (as with the 1257LVL and 1257) or a flat plate as in many of the 13XX series tripods. By replacing the normal column an added bonus is there is less weight. Additionally, by using the short column or plate on these tripods the tripod can be taken down to or almost down to the ground for compositional and subject reasons.

Rich

[eric black]

There are some good lessons to be learned from this post! My contribution is when the trip is in the desert or anyplace that my water filter isnt going to provide that necessary ingredient of staying alive. In those cases I downgrade my preferred arca to a wista dxII for which I had a custom arca mounting bracket made. A small Lowapro shoulder bag is loaded into the top of an REI internal frame pack and contains the camera, darkcloth, lightmeter, loupe, filters and a Gnass film/quickload holder with about 30-40 quickloads. I load 3-4 lenses into a Gnass lens case which is stowed near a zipper on the main pack. The small shoulder bag (Lowepro AW bag)is placed at the top of the pack (inside) along with ready to eat freeze dried meals, whisperlite stove, small sig bottle, titanium pot for heating water, tent and sleeping bag and changes of underwear/socks (my only luxuries), first aid kit and as much water as I can fit inside using Platypus bags. I figure on a gallon of water a day (Im a big guy). My Gitzo 1325 tripod with arca B2 head is strapped to the outside using a tripod holding system swiped from a Lowapro backpack. Total weight the last time I ventured into the Sonoran desert- approx 85 lbs of which 32 was water for 4 days out and a lightweight hike back.

[naturephoto1]

I will be using my new Toho Shimo FC-45X (2lb 12 oz) like Kerry and Harley. I will normally be carrying the camera, lenses (3 or 4), spot meter, dark cloth, loupe, and filters in a Kinesis V092 (17 oz) padded bag inside and at the top of my custom made McHale panel loading internal frame backpack (5.5 lb). The film and Readyload holder Quickload film will be carried in my Gnassgear 3 pouch rapid load file. My Gitzo 1257LVL with either the Markins M20 head and Kirk 2 1/2" Arca Type QR or the RRS PCL-1 will be carried in a Think Tank Bazooka Tripod Bag which is strapped to the outside of the pack. If I should decide to carry more lenses, they will fit into my Gnass Gear lens case.

By the way an alcohol stove can be used for heating water rather efficiently and save weight in the pack. Also, rather than carry an additional daypack much of the time, much of the gear (additional clothing, sleeping bag, etc,) will be placed in a 1.8oz pack liner. This will save 1 or more?? pounds for a panel loading day pack. I could leave the gear in camp and carry the 5.5 lb backpack with all of the camera gear, a bit of clothing, and food to go out to photograph if so desired.

As the last of the equipment arrives, I will be posting photos (need to borrow a digital camera) and additional information.

Rich

[riooso]

Thanks guys. I did not know that the 1257LVL column did not rotate. My Berl does. This is all good insight. I am going pretty light with the rest of the stuff so I should not be over 35 pounds total. I found out in backpacking that the lighter you go the more it costs.

Thanks,
Richard

[gregstidham]

You mention you are new to backpacking so I recommend you purchase the lightest, highest quality backpacking equipment you can afford, buying used is a good idea. Buy some waterproof boots from a place that can fit you correctly. Get a hold of the nicest thermarest type bed pad and sleeping bag you can find.

Pack the pack with everything you need to survive in the wilderness, compass, 7.5-minute quadrangle maps of your adventure area, alcohol, etc. Then pack half as many clothes as you think you need and stick your lenses, in between them inside the pack. I use a pack that is split in two with a separate access to my clothes so I can get to the lenses easy without unpacking my stove and food. If you are shooting 4x5, readyloads take up a lot less space and weight, put these in your pack on top with your camera, wrapped inside your focus cloth, for easy access. Strap or carry your tripod.

Some like to take a light weight day pack and attach it somewhere for small day hikes from camp. This works well, but I have found, once you empty your main pack of base camp items, the pack is much lighter and a pleasure to carry after the 10 miles you trekked to camp the day before.

If you are extremely new to backpacking, read some books on how to read topo maps and use a compass. Getting lost can really wreck a great week of photography. Have fun. :)

[riooso]

Thanks for the advice. I have advanced skills using a compass and Brunton pocket transits. I am blessed to be able to buy really good gear and have hiked in the past. I am just amazed at all the new lightweight stuff. I am preparing for the Spring by reading a lot nonetheless.

Thanks,
Richard

[Dave_B]

Backpacking has changed a lot over the last five years. There is a new approach called ultralight backpacking that has become very mainstream. It was largely started by Ray Jardine and his book "Beyond Backpacking". I recommend it to those new to the activity. The basic idea is that dry weight (no food or water but including the empty containers) for your gear should weigh less than ten pounds. Roughly that means two pounds for a pack, two for a sleeping bag, one for a pad and two for a tent or shelter. That leaves a couple of pounds for a stove, cup, spoon, etc. It used to be a lunatic fringe that would do this using homemade gear but now all the major manufacturers have gotten on board with gear in this weight range. I personally use a western mountaineering summer weight bag, half length foam pad, a gregory g pack and a tarptent by Henry Shires. A titanium cup, stove and few odds and ends gets me to less than ten pounds. A water filter lets you bring less water as you usually can filter it along the way. Food usually weighs one pound per person per day. If you can do this for your camping gear that leaves you maybe 15-20 lbs for camera gear giving you a total of ~30 pounds which for me is the limit between enjoying being out there and misery. Try googling ultra light weight backpacking and you will find dozens of web sites devoted to it. The ultra light weight gear is no more expensive that the heavy stuff and I can't imagine ever going back to a 50 pound pack without the camera gear which is what I used to carry when I was younger, stronger and stupid.
Cheers,
Dave B.

[naturephoto1]

Hi David,

I have been struggling to get my base weight to below about 15 or so pounds so far, but I am carrying a 5.5 lb Custom made panel loading McHale pack. The pack shoulder straps, waist belt, and suspension system however will allow me to carry all of the clothing, fuel, stove, titanium pot, spork, Six Moons Lunar Solo e "tarp tent", Feathered Friends Vireo Sleeping Bag, sleeping pad, extras, food, water, water filter or treatment, and all of the camera equipment reasonably comfortably.

For those interested, a very good light weight backpacking site for information, equipment etc. is Backpacking Light:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/index.html

Rich

[gregstidham]

I remember that book, "Beyond Backpacking", good stuff. :)

I've often thought I take too much sleeping bag and could get away with a lot less even if the weather turns.


Thanks for the advice. I have advanced skills using a compass and Brunton pocket transits. I am blessed to be able to buy really good gear and have hiked in the past.
Glad to hear. Have a good trip and make some art. :)

[riooso]

Wow! Great stuff. Hey light tends to be more expensive. My Marmot 15 bag $365 ( 1 pound 14oz), 3 season tent $250 (4 pounds total for 2), Titanium just expensive, watching my wife hiking and up before dawn with the dog to take pics ------ PRICELESS!


Thanks,
Richard

[naturephoto1]

Hi Richard,

You may wish to check some of the following suppliers for products to lower the weight of your pack:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/index.html
http://www.tarptent.com/
http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/
http://www.gossamergear.com/
http://www.featheredfriends.com/
http://www.westernmountaineering.com/
http://www.montbell.com/america/index.asp
http://www.montane.co.uk/
http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/home/index.jsp?OPTION=HOME_PAGE&assetid=1704
http://marmot.com/
http://www.bozemanmountainworks.com/
http://www.integraldesigns.com/
http://www.golite.com/
http://www.cloudveil.com/
http://www.orgear.com/home/page/home
http://www.nunatakusa.com/
http://www.mountainhardwear.com/
http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/index.php
http://www.thenorthface.com/

There are many many more but these are a very good start.

Rich

[riooso]

Nature you are awesome!
Thanks,
Richard Adams