Forte to cease production.

[Gary Smith]

There is a rumor over on APUG, from a gentleman who has close ties to Forte, it seems that they will be ceasing production of film and other photographic supplies as of the end of the month.

Personally, I have never used any Forte product, but its sad to see them go if its true. Forte's homepage has no annoucement as of yet.

Hope it helps.

Gary

[Capocheny]

Gary,

I hope it's only a rumor... if true, it would really be sad to see another manufacturer bite the dust!

I'll keep my fingers crossed in the hopes that it's only that... a rumor!

:>0

Cheers

[Ben Calwell]

I hope it's just a rumor. I've gotten to like their Fortezo fiber-based paper.

[Ted Harris]

Here is the same post I made at APUG:

First off I'll put this in the unconfirmed rumor category for the moment and hope that I am right. If some of the folks ffrom Fotoimpex and others that sell rebranded Forte film make any confirming posts then I will begin to mourn. Second, with all due respect to the possible truth of the original post, it is tough to swallow when I think of all the Forte film that is sold by others and rebranded as their own. Next, even if true it may not be the end of the world. It could be an opportunity for some of the other European film manufacturers to enter the sheet film market if they see a niche that can earn €'s that has become a void worth filling. Finally, while I have never used any of the films produced by Chinese companies I am willing to give them a chance.

I do hope I am not being overly optimistic.

[davidb]

This is why I try to give Ilford every penny I can.

[David Luttmann]

It would be a true shame if this happened. The 400 film is simply superb for it's old fashioned look. I'll keep feeding Ilford with my FP4 habit though.

[Aaron van de Sande]

If the stuff about J&C starting their own coating facility is true than most likely he stopped rebranding their film. To tell you the truth I really havent heard anyone on the boards say they were crazy about their film.
I know I didn't like it.

[Juergen Sattler]

This was posted over on p-net. Supposedely it is a reply from Forte to an inquiry by a European fellow. It might be true after all!
____________________

Dear Mr.
To our greatest regret, we have to advise you that the owners have come to the decesion, to stop the production of FORTE photographic products by January 26th, 2007, definitely.

The FORTE factory established by George Eastman as a KODAK factory in 1922, as well its successors, have been manufacturing mainly black&white photo films and papers of superior/high quality, especially with warm tone, in a very wide range.

During the past decade, the demand for black&white photo products felt back drastically, due to the fact technological development, that is confirmed, even by the sales figures of your country.

The FORTE factory, has been working with huge over capacities, and outdated equipment, on a large piece of ground, with uneconomical infrastructure, resulting in continuous losses.

Considering the above, the long negotiations with several potential industrial investors, have failed.

We thank you for your several year's of smooth and fruitful co-operation, and wish you good success in the future

[tim atherton]

okay - I have a ral hard time keeping track of all the Mitteleuropa brands an manufacturers... (especially with all the re-branding)

Efke is a totally different entity to Forte correct??

thanks

tim

[David A. Goldfarb]

Forte is a Hungarian manufacturer. Efke is Croatian. Foma is Czech. Slavich is Russian.

[tim atherton]

Forte is a Hungarian manufacturer. Efke is Croatian. Foma is Czech. Slavich is Russian.

thanks

this thread ahs also just reminded me - someone on here bought some Chinese (B&W I thibk) sheet film a while back from an ebay seller

anyone remember the details - I couldn't find it

[David A. Goldfarb]

Lucky is the Chinese brand.

[Ted Harris]

Jurgen, I think what you just posted is the same letter that the OP on APUG was quoting.

BTW, one of the Foma lines is rebranded Forte. There is also a Ukranian manufacturer and everal others in Europe that don't cut sheet film (Orwo, etc.); not to mention a second Chinese manufacturer, ERA, who actually show sheet film boxes on their web page.

[tim atherton]

not to mention a second Chinese manufacturer, ERA, who actually show sheet film boxes on their web page.

that might be the one - Shanghai film or something? (I don't think I've ever seen any actual sheet film from Lucky? - aty least B&W)

Ted - do you have a link to their website?

[Curt Palm]

this would be the second time for Forte shutting down, didn't they go through bankruptcy and reorg. about the same time ilford was having their problems?

[Jiri Vasina]

Jurgen, I think what you just posted is the same letter that the OP on APUG was quoting.

BTW, one of the Foma lines is rebranded Forte. There is also a Ukranian manufacturer and everal others in Europe that don't cut sheet film (Orwo, etc.); not to mention a second Chinese manufacturer, ERA, who actually show sheet film boxes on their web page.

Ted, I would not be so sure that Foma rebrands anything from Forte. Could you give more details about those products?

Jiri

[Ted Harris]

Jiri I am positive that one of the Foma lines is rebranded Forte film, only one. NDA's forbid me to say any more than this.

Tim, yes and now that you asked I can't find it .... but I will :(.

[paulr]

this would be the second time for Forte shutting down, didn't they go through bankruptcy and reorg. about the same time ilford was having their problems?

Yeah. It seems they got bailed out at the last minute by investors the first time around.

[Matthew Cordery]

Sigh. Anyone want to buy an unopened 50-sheet box 16x20 FB Elegance?

[kjsphotography]

I made a phone call and confirmed it. It is not a rumor. They are finished once they fill their orders. I am so upset over this.

[Geary Lyons]

Yes, this is a most disheartening development! I pretty much settled on PWT and Poly V from Forte and Ilford, as my sources of paper for enlarging. I will be sad to use the last sheets of Forte. I will also need to find 200 & 400 sheet films, test and recalibrate. This is a bummer, I really liked the tonal scales of the Forte papers.

Think I will try the Efke papers again and cross my fingers. Ilford is good paper and I will use more, but....

Cheers, we still have choices!

Geary

[Jay DeFehr]

The other Chinese film is called Era, but I think they've shut their doors as well. The only Foma film I've used is the 200 speed stuff, and it's definitely not Forte. If either the ISO 100 or ISO 400 Foma film is rebranded Forte (which I'm having trouble believeing), I would hope it's the ISO 100, which is the best of the Forte films, IMO. When Freestyle introduced their Arista Edu line, I bought a bunch of each speed, because it was cheap, and I wanted to see if I could make them my standard films. I found I could not, because of inconsistent manufacturing. I still have a lot of that film in my freezer, and a lot of the 200 and 400 in 3x4 because those are the only films I could find in that format. Now that J&C has closed its doors, I have no source for 3x4 film of any kind.

Agfa and Orwo (and Forte?) are gone, Slavich, Svema, and Lucky are third tier manufacturers, at best, Efke is barely second tier (and slipping it seems), and Foma is the only second tier manufacturer making progress towards becoming a first tier manufacturer. Kodak is out of the paper business, Fuji was never a player in the B&W paper market, leaving only Ilford as a first tier manufacturer of B&W films and papers, whose only competition in this regard is Foma. Maybe Fuji and Kentmere will merge to give Ilford a run for their money? Not likely. Still, I can choose from the many fine products produced by Kodak, Ilford, Fuji, Foma, Kentmere, and the less dependable but occasionally exellent products from Efke, if I'm in a gambling mood. I don't know who makes the Rollei or Maco films, and I've never used either. If there's a silver lining to Forte closing, it might mean an infusion for Foma, and to a lesser extent, the first tier.

Jay

[davidb]

So why are so many people scrambling for replacement materials when Ilford is doing so well these days? Why not just switch to Ilford products?

[Shen45]

I don't know how current this info is and there is no mention of LF sheet film

http://www.luckyfilm.com/eng/products_3.html

Steve

[william linne]

So why are so many people scrambling for replacement materials when Ilford is doing so well these days? Why not just switch to Ilford products?

Ilford papers aren't as nice and don't tone as easily as Forte papers. At least the warmtone versions of each.

W.

[jnantz]

i wonder if photowarehouse got their big roll before the doors shut.
i think they were supposed to be selling forte film ...

[Bruce Osgood]

I'm waiting for a delivery from Freestyle of their Artisia.Edu because J&C is closed so I can't get their Polywarmtone + and I don't want to spend the money at B&H for Forte... maybe I'll have to go (with hat in hand) to Mr. Kentmere next.

[Colin Graham]

Boy does this blow. Maybe I'll dedicate myself to platinum.

[steve simmons]

We've done some checking and this rumor does appear to be true. We will readjust our chart of available sheet films as soon as possible and get it up on our web site.

steve simmons
view camera magazine

[Wayne]

Fuck

[Aaron van de Sande]

You can get chinese sheet film on ebay

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZisaac.chenQQhtZ-1

[John Kasaian]

Sorry to see it go. I shot some Forte quite awhile back and I didn't have any problem with either the film or the paper.

I heard that Bergger film is manufactured by Forte---is that true or is it internet gossip?

[Jan Pedersen]

Was just going to mention Bergger but John beat me to it ;) Not that i am going to miss Forte nor Bergger film but the Fortezzo paper will be very difficult to replace. It is as already mentioned great for toning.
Not completely sure about who manufacture the Nuance paper but i certainly don't want to hear that it is Forte. If it is, that pretty much leave me without paper.
Can someone who knows about the Nuance paper manufacturer chime in and save the day?
Suppose that Freezer sale will be going up in the next few weeks :rolleyes:

[Ted Harris]

I've now got the demise confirmed from three different sources and it is absolutely real. OTOH, always being the optimist, look for some interesting announcements over the next six to eight months from several of the other small European manufacturers and distributors. For example, asearch is now underway to find other sources for a duplicate of Warmtone paper and there is a good chance that the Agfa film coating facility will be back operational under new ownership. One of the corporate players in all this does post on APUG and I'll leave it to him to speak.

[tim atherton]

hmmm - time to hoard those two boxes of 12x16 Polywarmtone I never used...

[j.e.simmons]

One report says that Kentmere is investigating obtaining the formulas, etc. from Forte with the idea of producing the warmtone paper and, perhaps, adding film production in the future.

I guess we'll see what happens.
juan

[Andrew O'Neill]

Damnit! I love their Polygrade V fibre papers!!! I hope someone picks it up and keeps it alive. What is out there that is similar to Polygrade V? I love Ilford MG IV fibre, but it's not as flexibal as Polygrade.

[Andrew O'Neill]

One report says that Kentmere is investigating obtaining the formulas, etc. from Forte with the idea of producing the warmtone paper and, perhaps, adding film production in the future.

That would be cool but lets hope they don't meddle with the formula...Kentmere papers are very nice but the contrast range of their VC papers is just too narrow for me.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Ted, if you hear anything from this corporate player guy over at apug, let us know over here, eh?

[paulr]

Ilford papers aren't as nice and don't tone as easily as Forte papers. At least the warmtone versions of each.

W.

My feeling too. The first time they went out of business I started printing digitally. No other papers out there did it for me. And I really didn't want to invest the time in learning a new silver product (development, toning, etc.) when chances are it would meet the same fate.

[Jimi]

The only Foma film I've used is the 200 speed stuff, and it's definitely not Forte. If either the ISO 100 or ISO 400 Foma film is rebranded Forte (which I'm having trouble believeing), I would hope it's the ISO 100, which is the best of the Forte films, IMO.

I hope someone will shed some more light on this issue. I bought a bunch of Fomapan 100 and it would be bad if it turns out I like this film and it's about to get bumped (to borrow a Sam Spade phrase). The 200 is a bi-cubic film emulsion (akin to t-grain films) and I guess it may be a product of some collaboration between Fuji and Foma.

[Christopher Perez]

Excellent! Thanks for the link.

Any idea if they sell film in sheets larger than 8x10? The reason I ask is that I don't see anything up on his store bigger than 8x10 right now.


You can get chinese sheet film on ebay

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZisaac.chenQQhtZ-1

[Laszlo]

My sense is that moving (further) downmarket after Agfa and Forte's demise is self defeating, given uneven quality in the 2nd, 3rd etc tier of manufacturers. Somebody noted this already, but I think it's worth repeating: as the worldwide demand for film is shrinking we should probably consider supporting companies that produce outstanding quality and have the wherewithal to remain alive.

I can't comment to papers as I print digitally, but in terms of films, Kodak and Ilford come to mind, regardless whether you like T-grain or the old emulsions.

[tim atherton]

My sense is that moving (further) downmarket after Agfa and Forte's demise is self defeating, given uneven quality in the 2nd, 3rd etc tier of manufacturers. Somebody noted this already, but I think it's worth repeating: as the worldwide demand for film is shrinking we should probably consider supporting companies that produce outstanding quality and have the wherewithal to remain alive.

I can't comment to papers as I print digitally, but in terms of films, Kodak and Ilford come to mind, regardless whether you like T-grain or the old emulsions.

Didn't Kodak just lay of 500 people from its (film?) coating facility due to an serious "unexpected downturn" in film sales?

[Laszlo]

That may be so, but my point is to attempt to move our purchases upmarket to support those manufacturers. Just my $.02.

[domenico Foschi]

Ilford papers aren't as nice and don't tone as easily as Forte papers. At least the warmtone versions of each.

W.

That is really a matter of taste.
Until 3 yearsago I was using Forte paper and I never liked how it tones, especially the warmtone.
Ilford paper,especially the Warmtone,tones beautifully, especially since a year or so.
They must have changed something since then.
Forte sepia toned way to yellow for me, but again,it really is a matter of personal taste.
Nevertheless, it is sad to see a company like Forte going, thinking that their products were so widespread under different branding.
I shoot and print Ilford now which makes me feel pretty secure(keep finger crossed).
Hopefully J&C, will benefit from this with their new line of material, granted it will be of good quality.

[Al D]

My sense is that moving (further) downmarket after Agfa and Forte's demise is self defeating, given uneven quality in the 2nd, 3rd etc tier of manufacturers. Somebody noted this already, but I think it's worth repeating: as the worldwide demand for film is shrinking we should probably consider supporting companies that produce outstanding quality and have the wherewithal to remain alive.

I can't comment to papers as I print digitally, but in terms of films, Kodak and Ilford come to mind, regardless whether you like T-grain or the old emulsions.

Laszlo,

I want to agree with you, but I fear an argument can be made that suggests support of the first-tier is also self-defeating.

I think we can all agree that the professional market has always been pre-disposed towards the first-tier because of the better quality control these makers have offered. The problem here is that for every Field Camera sold that results in the consumption of 100 sheets of film a year there are, perhaps two Monorail Cameras retired that consumed 200 sheets a week. I expect that affects the Kodaks and Ilfords of the world more than the Fortes and Fomas...

The real issue for Forte and Foma is likely the following:
a) Direct foregin investment in Hungary and the Czech republic by the Eurozone has increased
b) Labor costs have, accordingly, increased sharply as a result of A
c) The EMU has not been adopted in these countries
d) Pricing of Russian-made paper bases and COMEX/London-priced silver has NOT been made more affordable in the local currencies as a result of C
e) B, C, and D make the Forte's and Foma's of the world non-viable as niche manufacturers

Silver has increased about five-fold in dollar terms in the past six years ($12.90 troy oz. at last glance). It's probably got more to go along that road as the global economy increasingly resembles a Ponzi-esque construction.

So, if you give the currency markets a look we'd best hope that the Czech and Crotian republics adopt the EMU if we want anybody other than Ilford to have a chance in the future.

It is a sad state of affairs, indeed, that macroeconomics are governing the fitness of analog photography suppliers, but I fear it's come to that.

If analog photography is to survive it is going to get FAR mar expensive to practice, especially in dollar terms.