Spot or cloud?

[Leonard Evens]

I regularly find small fuzzy spots in the sky in my scans of negatives. I have never been sure whether they arise from dust relatively far from the film surface, such as on the underside of the glass, or small clouds. The argument for clouds has been that I don't see such fuzzy spots except in the sky. Well, what about the following? I found a spot with a bird which appears to be in front of it. It is true that the bird's wing is a bit lighter where the spot is, but that could be a diffraction effect. The attached image is about 85 x 55 px out of a scan of size 9932 x 7954 px. Any opinions?

[Kirk Gittings]

Too small to really see.

[walter23]

Hah, very funny.

[Leonard Evens]

Okay,

I rescaled it so that it is now larger. But, I'm not sure you can see much more.

[Mark Sampson]

Looks like a piece of fiber to me. If they only show up in the skies, that may be because artifacts that small are hidden in any areas with varied tonalities.

[Ted Harris]

I'll second fiber and what Mark says. I have recently rescanned a couple of transparencies on the Cezanne that had previously been scanned on either an Epson 4990 or Microtek 1800f and there are clearly fibers ALL over the film that didn't show up in the earlier scans ...

Assuming they are not embedded in the emulsion, which is possible, then clean with compressed air.

[Leonard Evens]

I'll second fiber and what Mark says. I have recently rescanned a couple of transparencies on the Cezanne that had previously been scanned on either an Epson 4990 or Microtek 1800f and there are clearly fibers ALL over the film that didn't show up in the earlier scans ...

Assuming they are not embedded in the emulsion, which is possible, then clean with compressed air.

I assume you are talking about the roughly horizontal wavy lnear structure.

Let me explain again. I was scanning color negative film, not transparency film. Any obstructions to the light path when scanning, such as fibers or dust specks, come out as white threads or dots. Anything black is in the scene. Moreover, although it may not be immediately apparent to you, I assure you the dark wavy structure is a bird, probably a gull. I see them all the time in my photos, and often they are much more distinct than in this case, so I can recognize them.

The question was not about the bird. It was about the white hazy splotch which apprears to be behind it. I often see such things in the sky in my pictures. Were it the result of a dust speck between the scanner array and the film, but not too close to the film, it might appear as a hazy white spot just like this. But it could also be something actually in the scene, such as small cloud. It seems to me that the fact that the bird is in front of the splotch suggests that the splotch is in the scene. I can't think of any other explnation, but I wondered if someone else could.

[Michael Mutmansky]

Leonard,

Dust on the negative when taking the photograph will come out as a black line...

Reevaluate the bird with that in mind.


---Michael

[Caroline Matthews]

Loch Ness monster?

[Jon Shiu]

That bird looks like a worm!

Jon

[Bruce Watson]

Since it's a negative, dark artifacts are blocking light at exposure time, and white artifacts are blocking light at scanning time. Yes? And you are seeing these spots in the raw scan file (no sharpening) yes? I ask because certain uses of sharpening tools can create spots like this.

So, where can you get white spots from? As you say, they could be real -- clouds in the sky. Particularly small clouds though. Hmmm... Could be dust from scanning -- on the underside of the flatbed glass or perhaps on the inside cover in front of the light source. Could be junk on the negative from processing.

First thing to do is move the negative on the glass just a bit and rescan it. If the spots are in the same places relative to image detail (that is, the spots moved with the film) then the spots are on the film. Otherwise, if the rescan shows that the spots are now in different places relative to the image detail then the spots must be part of the scanner.

In the first case -- spots on the film, you could see if you can use a good film cleaner to get them off. You could have your film processed by another lab to see if that's the problem. Etc...

In the second case, a good cleaning of the scanner is in order. Pay particular attention to the CCD array, the underside of the flatbed glass and the light diffuser. Heck, once it's opened you might as well vacuum the whole thing out and make it as clean as a film holder.

Good luck with it. Spots like this are a PITA.

[domenico Foschi]

You should send that picture to Ted Bell :D

[domenico Foschi]

Art Bell?

[Kirk Keyes]

It's obviously the Flying Spagetti Monster - one of His Noodly Appendages coming down to Earth to inspire a large format photographer. The cloud behind is where the rest of his body is at.

Remember, we are all His creatures.

http://www.venganza.org/

[Leonard Evens]

Now that we are getting into whimsy, let me try to close the subject.

First, I see that I was making a pretty obvious error. Any obstructions in scanning negative film which are below the film will produce white spots which could appear to be behind elements in the image. The depth of field for the Epson 3200 is pretty large, but a speck of dust on the underside of the glass might produce an out of focus white blob. That is the most likely explanation of what I observed. The only argument for believing otherwise is that these fuzzy spots seldom appear anywhere except in the sky.

Second, despite the skepticism, the dark linear object in the scan is most likely a bird. I never see such things except in the sky. They have a typical shape, some show less detail, but others show more detail, and are clearly birds. I can see this one in the negative, and it is part of the image, not a thread stuck to the emulsion. I've had threads from the film holder show up at the edge of the frame, and they look entirely different. Also, birds are everywhere, and they are large enough to be seen in a typical large format photograph showing the sky. It would be surprising if they did not show up in a typical such scene. You won't necessary see them unless you look under relatively high magnification. I typically find them when I'm spotting with the clone tool, which I do under relatively high magnification.

[Alan Davenport]

It's a piece of lint, the kind of stuff that is part of the everyday dust we live in. Clone it out and tell it goodbye.

[Greg Miller]

I think the cloud is the bird's vapor trail;)