Walk-around sinks

[cyrus]

I have been making plans to turn my apartment kitchen into a darkroom. Initially, the plan was to simply tear out the bottom cabinets.Plan B was to simply build a sink and place it over the existing floor cabinets, covering the cabinet tops and the former sink area. In either case the fridge and over would have to go.

Now, I am considering plan C - building a "walk around" sink (a sink in which you can walk around all three sides) that juts out perpendicularly from the kitchen cabint wall in a "T" form, with one end placed only over the former kitchen sink area and hooked up to the water pipes there, and the rest ofthe sink jutting out into the room and supported by legs. This would have to be a shorter-lengthed sink due to the width of the room and the need for space to walk around the sink, but I think it will still be capable of handling four 16X24 trays side by side - which should be plenty - and I can put a cover over the sink and use it as a temporary "dry" area to do cutting/matting etc.. And, I get to keep the fridge and oven, so I can make dinners with balsamic vinegar...

So, any opinions on this?

[Ralph Barker]

If you make the sink frame sturdy enough, you could put it on heavy-duty casters, so it could be moved around if needed. In-coming water shouldn't be too much of an issue, but connecting the drain reliably might be a problem unless you run what would be a siphon hose into the drain of your existing sink. But, that means maintaining or renewing the siphon, and depends on the relative elevations.

[reellis67]

Sounds big. I use a bathroom and can print 11x14 without too much trouble - anything larger and I would be in trouble, but it doesn't disrupt the original use of the room in any way. Are you certain that you will *need* that large of a work space, or are you just planning for future needs?

- Randy

[cyrus]

If you make the sink frame sturdy enough, you could put it on heavy-duty casters, so it could be moved around if needed. In-coming water shouldn't be too much of an issue, but connecting the drain reliably might be a problem unless you run what would be a siphon hose into the drain of your existing sink. But, that means maintaining or renewing the siphon, and depends on the relative elevations.


I was just thinking that since I am placing one end of the darkroom sink over the existing kitchen sink, I'll just put the drainhole there too, and let the darkroom sink drain into the existing kitchen sink. Multiple birds slain with one shot. But casters are definitely a good idea. I can then move the sink out of the way when necessary.

[cyrus]

Sounds big. I use a bathroom and can print 11x14 without too much trouble - anything larger and I would be in trouble, but it doesn't disrupt the original use of the room in any way. Are you certain that you will *need* that large of a work space, or are you just planning for future needs?

- Randy

Oh, "need" stopped being relevant long, long ago... I don't really "need" an 8x01 camera - and yet I have three! And four englargers, and god know how many ragnefinders...

Actually I will soon start a course on photoetching (if its not cancelled due to low demand, as was my Advanced Printing photo course) and I suspect that I'll need a bigger sink to do that at home too.

[Curt Palm]

I was just thinking that since I am placing one end of the darkroom sink over the existing kitchen sink, I'll just put the drainhole there too, and let the darkroom sink drain into the existing kitchen sink. Multiple birds slain with one shot. But casters are definitely a good idea. I can then move the sink out of the way when necessary.


depending on the height of your current sink this could make your darkroom sink very high and uncomfortable to work at. Perhaps you could try some sort of mock-up first.

maybe some sort of tee fitting in the existing sink drain pipe could work for your darkroom sink, like they have for dishwashers and garbage disposals.

[cyrus]

depending on the height of your current sink this could make your darkroom sink very high and uncomfortable to work at. Perhaps you could try some sort of mock-up first.

maybe some sort of tee fitting in the existing sink drain pipe could work for your darkroom sink, like they have for dishwashers and garbage disposals.


Right. Good point. The sink height is a concern - I'll have to check.

I am guessing that my kitchen sink is currently at the "standard" height. The bottom of the darkroom sink will be another inch or so over it, and the walls of the darkroom sink will be about 5-6 inches. On the other hand, i am already in the (very bad) habit of leaning over my trays, getting my head close to the tray (and sucking up the fumes!) to see what's going on in there, so a raised sink may not be so bad . . . I'll just grow taller!

[resummerfield]

.....On the other hand, i am already in the (very bad) habit of leaning over my trays, getting my head close to the tray (and sucking up the fumes!) to see what's going on in there, so a raised sink may not be so bad ......I lean over my sink too, and my back hurts after a day in the darkroom. The top of my sink is 36-inches, the standard height, and the bottom is 30-inches off the floor. If I were doing it again, I would have the bottom of the sink at around 40-inches off the floor (I'm 6'1"). And I think the peninsula walk-around sink is a great idea!

[frank pinchak]

I went thru the US Army Air Corps photo school. (WW II ) I copied my sink dimensions from the ones they used.
The top of my sink is 47 inches from the floor. My forearms rest on the top of the sink.This really helps in the long periods of dark or safelite work.

My sink has notched 4 x 4 legs and is 6ft long by 2 ft wide and one ft deep. I nailed wire lath inside bottom and walls and used waterproof cement for the inside. 57 years ago and still working better than ever , Duckboards are same age.

[cyrus]

I went thru the US Army Air Corps photo school. (WW II ) I copied my sink dimensions from the ones they used.
The top of my sink is 47 inches from the floor. My forearms rest on the top of the sink.This really helps in the long periods of dark or safelite work.

My sink has notched 4 x 4 legs and is 6ft long by 2 ft wide and one ft deep. I nailed wire lath inside bottom and walls and used waterproof cement for the inside. 57 years ago and still working better than ever , Duckboards are same age.

A ferro-cement sink! Wow, I thought they only made boats that way!

[Bruce Watson]

The only reason I can think of not to do "plan C" is the lack of a splash guard. You'll end up with more water and other stuff on the floor. Not a problem if you have a floor drain, but I haven't seen many floor drains in commercial building.

Two other thoughts. First, you need ventilation. Really, you do. Enough to change the air in the "darkroom" every 10 minutes or so. You many like the smells, but the fumes aren't doing your health any good.

Second, if you are going to fabricate a sink, there's no point in making it the "standard height" which is almost always too low for modern humans. Make the height such that the bottom of the sink is about the height of your palm when you are standing upright. Why? This keeps you from bending over to work in the trays; your back will thank you for later. If you are going to build it from scratch, why not use decent ergonomics???

[Patrik Roseen]

Sounds like a cool idea...I'd love to have an ergonomic darkroom.

As for the large trays, I have three myself but can not fit them into my bathroom, simply can not find a way to fit them side by side.

This got me thinking if it was possible to stack some of them on top of each other so that the 'needed floorspace' would not need to be so large.

In my experience it is most critical to have the developer in such away that it can easily be looked down into to see the progress of the print. The stop bath and fixing is more of a time-issue, i.e. no need to see the print hence they can be stacked away under something else. Anyone tried this?

Good luck with the project!

[Bruce Watson]

... stack some of them on top of each other so that the 'needed floorspace' would not need to be so large.

I seem to recall things like tray ladders. Developer on top, then stop, then fix... so that things drip in the right direction ;-)

[cyrus]

The only reason I can think of not to do "plan C" is the lack of a splash guard. You'll end up with more water and other stuff on the floor. Not a problem if you have a floor drain, but I haven't seen many floor drains in commercial building.

Good point. I can mop up spills and occasional liquid splatter but does anyone really splash so much that they need a floor drain?! Wow! That's mighty aggressive development!



Two other thoughts. First, you need ventilation. Really, you do. Enough to change the air in the "darkroom" every 10 minutes or so. You many like the smells, but the fumes aren't doing your health any good.

Covered. Kitchen has a vent. Actually thjis is one more reason to take my darkroom out of my utility closet where it is located now. It may not be a very strong vent, but its better than nothng, and as good as it is going to get.



Second, if you are going to fabricate a sink, there's no point in making it the "standard height" which is almost always too low for modern humans. Make the height such that the bottom of the sink is about the height of your palm when you are standing upright. Why? This keeps you from bending over to work in the trays; your back will thank you for later. If you are going to build it from scratch, why not use decent ergonomics???

Hmmm...the sink height is supposed to be up to the palm of my hands when I'm holding my hands dangling besides me, straight down? that seems to be too low & would require bending over. I think perhaps around my navel height is better, right? (Ps I'm only assuming that I'm a modern human...but who knows...)