Fujinon 450C f/12.5 lens I just won on eBay

[naturephoto1]

I just won a Fujinon 450C f/12.5 lens in mint condition on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=006&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=160069083847&rd=1&rd=1

I will use the money that I saved over new to partially pay for the SK Grimes adapter to use the lens on my new Toho Shimo FC-45X. I will call SK Grimes tomorrow and discuss the adapter with them. I see that they also make an adapter for the Linhof Technika/Technikardan 45 cameras. I will discuss with them to find out if they can may a tube to screw into a lens board for both cameras for easier mounting than using the Technika board on the Toho. In any case, I could use the extension tube on both cameras if prepared properly. :D

Have any of you owners of the lens compared the results of the performance of this lens with the Nikon 500T ED f11 lens. I also have this telephoto lens and the rear 720mm lens elements. With the adapter I could use this 720mm lens on the Toho as well as some of my macro lenses (with more bellows draw) with say my Schneider f5.6 120mm Makro Symmar lens as well. :D

Thanks for any comments.

Rich

[Jack Flesher]

Well, the Fuji 450 C is an excellent optic, has more IC than your Nikkor Tele and weighs less than half the tele.

As for using extension tube adapters, I don't like them in general since they move the axis significantly rearward for all of your front tilt and swing adjustments -- actually for this same reason I don't happen to care for tele lenses on view cams. THey may also trim usable IC due to physical vignetting. I would prefer a rear extension back if I needed to add draw, but this is my personal opinion only, other's views may vary.

Cheers,

[naturephoto1]

Well, the Fuji 450 C is an excellent optic, has more IC than your Nikkor Tele and weighs less than half the tele.

As for using extension tube adapters, I don't like them in general since they move the axis significantly rearward for all of your front tilt and swing adjustments -- actually for this same reason I don't happen to care for tele lenses on view cams. I would prefer a rear extension back if I needed to add draw, but this is my personal opinion only, other's views may vary.

Cheers,

Hi Jack,

Thanks for the input. My Linhof Technikardan 45S has enough bellows for the lens and does not require a rear extension back. The Toho FC-45X on the other hand has no option. There is no way to attach a rear extension to the camera since the ground glass assembly is permanently attached to the bellows. With only about 360mm of bellows, the only option with this camera is to use either telephoto lenses requiring less than 360mm of bellows or an extension tube for non telephoto lenses such as the the Fuji 450C. Additionally, I can use rear swings and tilts in place of front movements if there is a problem.

Rich

[Harley Goldman]

Another option to a custom tube is a top hat board from Ebony. You can buy them from Jim at Midwest and save the cost of going custom. I have a two section Ebony top hat on my 450mm, which I use on my Toho and Arca and it works great. I would highly recommend constructing a baffles in the extension tube or top hat board. The lens has a huge image circle and there is a lot of light bouncing around. The baffles will greatly improve the contrast.

Drop me an email if you want more info.

[Ron Marshall]

Another option to a custom tube is a top hat board from Ebony. You can buy them from Jim at Midwest and save the cost of going custom. I have a two section Ebony top hat on my 450mm, which I use on my Toho and Arca and it works great. I would highly recommend constructing a baffles in the extension tube or top hat board. The lens has a huge image circle and there is a lot of light bouncing around. The baffles will greatly improve the contrast.

Drop me an email if you want more info.


This is what I did to mount my 450mm on the Toho.

Mine consists of a Linhof style board with a circular opening, three 35mm long tubes and a front ring on which the lens is mounted. If I remember correctly, the entire set was about $150.

[naturephoto1]

This is what I did to mount my 450mm on the Toho.

Mine consists of a Linhof style board with a circular opening, three 35mm long tubes and a front ring on which the lens is mounted. If I remember correctly, the entire set was about $150.

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the info. I sent a PM to Harley asking about this possible combination of 3 35mm tubes. I was wondering if the rings would be available separately. Do you find that 105mm of added extension enough to use the lens? The SK Grimes is 4 1/2" (versus about 4.13" for the Ebony). Any problem mounting the Ebony extension board system at an angle onto the Toho camera? Also, Harley had suggested installing a baffling into the extension tubes due to reflection and light scattering. Have you found a problem with the lens performance without the baffling?

Thanks for the help.

Rich

[Ron Marshall]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the info. I sent a PM to Harley asking about this possible combination of 3 35mm tubes. I was wondering if the rings would be available separately. Do you find that 105mm of added extension enough to use the lens? The SK Grimes is 4 1/2" (versus about 4.13" for the Ebony). Any problem mounting the Ebony extension board system at an angle onto the Toho camera? Also, Harley had suggested installing a baffling into the extension tubes due to reflection and light scattering. Have you found a problem with the lens performance without the baffling?

Thanks for the help.

Rich

Hi Rich. I remembered wrong, the rings are 38mm. I bought one ring, the front plate and the "technika" board from Midwest at an ebay auction for $75, then ordered two more rings from them, which were about $35 each.

With three rings the minimum focus on the 450mm is 3.6 meters, which is closer than I really need for a 450, but nice to have.

I bought telescope flocking cloth, which is adhesive backed and installed it myself. It is needed, as the rings are somewhat shiny inside. There are two kinds, sticky and very sticky. I used the sticky. The very sticky cannot be repositioned once placed. The sticky won't come off. It is very cheap from this link:

http://www.fpi-protostar.com/flock01.htm

Naturally at full extension this set-up is shaky, but if you wait until the vibrations dampen then the photos are wonderfully sharp. It is a real treat being able to use such a long lens when it is needed.

[Harley Goldman]

Rich,

If you are using an extension tube, you will want to make some kind of baffle for the tube. I used my lens for a while without the baffle and my images were washed out and lacked pop. As soon as I installed the baffle, the images were looking great.

I am amazed at how often I use the lens, too. It is on the camera a surprising amount. Great lens, sharp and contrasty.

[naturephoto1]

Hi Harley and Ron,

Thanks for the input. The flocking cloth that Ron has suggested looks like it may be a simple and inexpensive way of avoiding reflection and light scattering. Unless you feel that the baffle is going to be a superior method for combating this problem, I think that I will try the flocking cloth first. Additionally, I think that it would be easier to apply the flocking cloth to each of the extension tubes than the baffling. If it doesn't solve the problem, I will remove the cloth (following Ron's suggestion for the sticky version) and install the baffling.

Rich

[Don Boyd]

Harley and Ron,
I had S.K. Grimes make me a single 4 1/2 inch extension tube for my Toho and 450 Fuji, and all of my images appear washed out. Suspecting that it was extraneous light bouncing off of the inside, I had been trying to come up with a solution. Ron, if you must purchase more flocking cloth than needed, I would be happy to share the cost with you. Harley, I am not sure how you might attach baffles to the extension tube. What did you do?

[Ron Marshall]

Harley and Ron,
I had S.K. Grimes make me a single 4 1/2 inch extension tube for my Toho and 450 Fuji, and all of my images appear washed out. Suspecting that it was extraneous light bouncing off of the inside, I had been trying to come up with a solution. Ron, if you must purchase more flocking cloth than needed, I would be happy to share the cost with you. Harley, I am not sure how you might attach baffles to the extension tube. What did you do?

Don, I put the flocking in my tubes about a year ago. It works great and the contrast is good. The stock tubes, though anodised black, were quite shiny inside.

Check out the link I posted below; they sell by the inch, enough to do your tubes would only be a few dollars.

I am going to try to use my remaining cloth to line the inside of my scanner.

[Chuck Pere]

When you see the flare problems are you also using a lens hood to reduce coverage? I'm using the Ebony tophat from Midwest and it seems OK. I do always use a hood. Also I'm always in fairly low light situations. And using B&W so it might be harder to see. Just wondering about the baffle vs. hood solutions.

[Dan Fromm]

Harley and Ron,
I had S.K. Grimes make me a single 4 1/2 inch extension tube for my Toho and 450 Fuji, and all of my images appear washed out. Suspecting that it was extraneous light bouncing off of the inside, I had been trying to come up with a solution. Ron, if you must purchase more flocking cloth than needed, I would be happy to share the cost with you. Harley, I am not sure how you might attach baffles to the extension tube. What did you do?Bad news, Don.

I thought I'd trained Adam to thread tubes internally. Same threads as for mounting a filter. This has the same effect as baffling and flocking, is more permanent than adhesive-backed flocking paper. Got the idea from my 12"/4 Taylor Hobson telephoto, which is threaded as for a filter internally at the rear.

If I were you I'd sent the tube back for rework.

Cheers,

Dan

[Don Boyd]

Ron, Dan, et al,
The flocking material sounds like the easiest (and quickest solution). Like Rich, I think I will give that a try first.

[Don Hutton]

Like Chuck, I just use a lenshood to reduce coverage - the B&H tele hood sells for about $20 and I have no issues with reduced contrast. On 8x10 and larger, I use the conventional or WA hood.

My own experience with a 360T Nikkor was that the Fuji outperforms it significantly in both contrast and resolution; and is way better than the 500T combination of the same Nikkor. Having said that, a 450mm is a long lens on a 4x5 and you will need patience and good technique: neither of your cameras are reknowned for stability at full extension. A golf umbrella is a very handy accessory.

[Don Boyd]

Thanks to Harley for directing me to this previous discussion link on the forum. There are two image links that show the baffle construction:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=14646

[GPS]

You can combine the flocked paper with a very efficient baffle construction. On a flat piece of paper draw 1/4 in wide stripes then glue (some flocked paper is self adhesive) alternatively on 1 stripe a stripe of the flocked paper and on the other stripe a flocked paper glued to a thicker paper base. When it is all done just turn the whole piece into a circular tube, cut what is necessary and insert the tube inside your extension tube. You will get a flocked baffled tube.

[Harley Goldman]

Sounds like the flocking tube might work. The baffles I constructed took very little time and works like a charm. Give either a go and see what happens. You do need something, though.

[naturephoto1]

If I took the flocked paper:

1) Folded it to form an accordian back and forth (perhaps 1/4" folds).
2) Installed and glued it down on the inside of the extension tubes so that the ridges ran perpendicular to the aproximately 4" length the tube or each of the 35mm tubes.

Would this work any better than just installing the flocking paper flat inside of the tube (s)? Would it cause any unforseen problems?

Thanks for any thoughts.

Rich

[GPS]

Try it with a simple sheet of paper - you'll see immediately where the problem is... ;-)

[naturephoto1]

You can combine the flocked paper with a very efficient baffle construction. On a flat piece of paper draw 1/4 in wide stripes then glue (some flocked paper is self adhesive) alternatively on 1 stripe a stripe of the flocked paper and on the other stripe a flocked paper glued to a thicker paper base. When it is all done just turn the whole piece into a circular tube, cut what is necessary and insert the tube inside your extension tube. You will get a flocked baffled tube.

Hi GPS,

I am not sure that I am understanding your suggestion here.

Alternatively, I may try to cut 1/4" wide strips of the Flocking paper with my paper cutter and place and alternate them every 1/4": Flocking paper/Flocking paper + 1/4" wide Flocking paper. Perhaps this will not yield enough difference in height but maybe it will. Using this method, I plan to insert and install the Flocking Paper with the ribs running perpindicular to the long axis of the tube (s).

Rich

[GPS]

It would yield enough difference in hight (or you can also make the strips narrower) but it would be difficult to glue the flocking paper strips right on the flocking paper itself. That's why I suggested to put the fl. paper on a thicker base glued to the same paper base that makes the tube. Hope I made myself clear this time.

[GPS]

Alternatively, the paper base strips on which you want to put the "higher" flocked paper strips can also be made of self adhesive paper - just thick and smooth enough to serve for this purpose. It would make the whole costruction much quicker.

[naturephoto1]

The lens has arrived and looks like new (or as close to it as I can recall a used lens) as has the Ebony board and 3 35mm extension tubes. I am awaiting the flocking paper which I hope will arrive tomorrow or Friday. I will decide how I use install the flocking paper after it arrives. But, having looked at the extension tubes, I presume I will use the simple way of just installing it into the tubes.

Rich

[Ken Lee]

Have any of you owners of the lens compared the results of the performance of this lens with the Nikon 500T ED f11 lens. I also have this telephoto lens and the rear 720mm lens elements.

I am not an Optics expert, but I have read that longer lenses reach around 50 lp/mm at best, and the Fujinon 450C is no exception to this trend.

You might want to consult Christopher Perez' and Kerry Thalmann's test results (http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/testing.html#300mm_and_longer), which include the Nikon lenses you mention, as well as the Fujinon.

Perhaps there are limitations which arise as lenses get longer.

[Jim Jirka]

What is the actual minimum focus distance for this lens with 360mm of bellows extension? Just curious.

[naturephoto1]

What is the actual minimum focus distance for this lens with 360mm of bellows extension? Just curious.

Hi Jim,

The lens will not focus with only 360mm of bellows. The flange focal length for the lens is 425.3mm. So to focus at infinity you would need a minimum of 425.3mm to focus at infinity. That is the reason for the lens board extension to focus the lens on my Toho FC-45X. My set-up offers about 105mm of added extension with the Ebony Extension board set that I purchased.

By the way the flocking paper arrived earlier today and I installed it into the 3 extension tubes. The "fuzzy" paper is very very dark black and absorbs the light with basically no reflection. I just used the simple way of installing the paper and hope that it holds. I will have to see if there is a problem of the adhesive/paper holding in different tempuratures due to the differences in expansion and contraction of the aluminum tubes, the adhesive, and the flocking paper.

Rich

[Jim Jirka]

Thanks Rich.
Jim

[GPS]

... I will have to see if there is a problem of the adhesive/paper holding in different tempuratures due to the differences in expansion and contraction of the aluminum tubes, the adhesive, and the flocking paper.

Rich

Com'on, it's not rocket science, whatever the tube expansion is, the paper will happily absorb it. It doesn't even need to be glued on all of its surface, just one stripe of it, the rest functions like a spring.