View Full Version : Lens Help Required, Zeiss Patent 14 IN

6-Jan-2007, 08:54
Hopefully someone here can help me identify this lense the only writing i can find is
Zeiss Patent 14 IN also the number 10964 which i assume is a serial number.
Its brass and the overall outside diameter is 1.5/8"
It comes in an old Compur Shutter.

I'm very much in the dark when it comes to Large format lenses, so any help will be very much appreciated.
I want to use it on a 10 x 8 Horseman, converted from Horseman 5 x 4 using the 10 x 8 back.


Sorry for poor quality of the pic but done quickly for reference.

John Cahill
6-Jan-2007, 09:50
A fourteen inch should give you coverage for 8x10. My 13 inch Wollensak Anastigmat is listed in an old Wollie catalogue for coverage on that size negative.

Ernest Purdum
6-Jan-2007, 10:31
This is pretty hard to identify from the information available. Zeiss licensed several makers in different countries to make several types of lenses covered by their patents.

Looking at the picture, and from the outer diameter given, I think the cells may be Series VII.

Since the markings are in English dimensions, I am guessing that the maker would be Ross. Bausch & Lomb marked their corresponding lenses 13 3/4".

I have some questions, the answers to which might enable a better answer.

Do both cells have the same markings?

Is the shutter marked with apertures? If so, is there one set of markings or two or three?

If I am correct in thinking Series VII, each cell will work at f12.5 and cover 8X10 at full aperture, somewhat more at smaller stops. Together, and if both cells are the same focal length, the aperture will be f6.3 and the combined focal length 7 7/8". Coverage at full aperture was rated at 5X8, 8X10 at f22 and below.

It was common for the length marked on a Series VII cell to be that of the cell, not that of the combination.

6-Jan-2007, 11:06

Only one cell has this marking, I assume its the front outer one.
Although both lenses appear to be same focal length and same mounting thread size.

I have botched it up to the 10 x 8 just for a look on the groundglass and with only one cell in use it appears more telephoto, it has a wider angle of view with when both are used.
Struggling with a broken arm here, so its not easy moving around a tripod mounted 8x10.

Regarding the Shutter.
It says Compur and on the shutter speed dial it says Voigtlander.
Shutter Speeds are 1. 2 . 5. 10. 25. 50. 100. 200.

There are 2 sets of Aperture values.
One marked H which is the one nearest the camera.
H: 4.5 6.3 9 12 18 25

Other one is marked T.D. furthest from the Camera.
T.D: 6.3 9 12 18 25 36

Can you confirm which Aperture scale I should use with just one cell and which for both cells ??
My other query is, when using just one cell, should I use it in front or behind the shutter ??

Thanks for your help on this one.

Gordon Moat
6-Jan-2007, 11:08
Somewhat related question on old Zeiss lenses. I have a 21cm Tessar with what seems to me to be a non-standard filter thread on the front. It almost seems like it should be 56mm, but seeing as how I cannot find that size anywhere my guess is the front threading might not be for a filter. If that is true, then perhaps a Series filter, or filter adapter would work. I don't want to hire a machine shop to make something for me, unless that is my only option. Front outside diameter is 60mm. Unfortunately, a Yahoo or Google search for Series Filter gives thousands of hits without finding a good resource. Anyone know of a resource that gives sizes for these old Series filter mounts?


Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

Ernest Purdum
6-Jan-2007, 11:46
Well, I had hoped the shutter markings might help clarify the matter, but instead they have added a layer of mystery.

I would expect an f4.5 lens to be larger than 1 5/8" overall, so my first thought, subject to correction, is that the cells have been replaced onto another shutter.

If this is correct, unfortunately neither scale would apply to your lens. The scale starting at f6.3 might be close to what you need for the combination. If I am correct in guessing that your cells are Series VII, wide open would be f12.5 for one cell.

It is to be expected that one cell alone will give you a significantly longer view than the combination. Congratulations on your persistence in manipulating an 8X10 with a broken arm.

The usual positioning of a single cell is at the back of the shutter. Even so, sometimes people use the cell in front because it protects lthe shutter from dust and provides a little more extension.