SE plus: Multi-exposure in 48 Bit HDR?

[jhogan]

I just purchased (upgraded) SE Plus yesterday (6.5.3), for my 4990 running Mac OSX 10.3x.

My hope is to use the Multi-Scan feature, but when I switch to 48 Bit HDR and click the light bulb (2 scans), Silverfast scans my neg twice, but does not convert it to a POSITIVE, meaning I've got an orange picture with great latitude...

I'm pretty familiar with SE, been using it for 2 years now, so I'm pretty sure everything is correct in the general settings, ie: transparency/neg. It also doesn't seem to matter what film I choose, the result is always the same.

Any ideas?

Thanks -j

[Michael Heald]

Hello! I believe the HDR gives you a RAW image only, so a negative is scanned as a negative. Unfortunately with SE plus, that is the only way to get a 48 bit scan. I'm not sure, but for the 48 bit to 24 bit scanning choice, I believe that any processing (curve and histogram adjustments, etc.) occurs after conversion, not before, so a person doesn't get the benefit of 48 bit processing for those selections either. Best regards.

Mike

[PViapiano]

Does Ai allow you to get a 48 bit non-HDR image?

[Tim Lookingbill]

I get the same results as jhogan using the version of Silverfast SE that shipped with my refurbed 2004 model Epson 4870 for Mac OS 9.2.2.

So this confirms normal behavior at least in my case because I could never get a definate answer on this. And I don't have the multi-exposure feature.

Just a note, the negative I get opened in PS is already somewhat neutralized but still with a negative preview. IOW it's not orange colored but a bit purplish gray. All I have to do is invert and get a somewhat color correct but washed out image with the SF scanner profile embedded. Not sure if I should invert first or convert to a working space then invert.

[Kirk Gittings]

If you notice when you swithch to HDR the Negafix window goes away (where you pick negative profiles) hence it is processing the image raw as a positive.

[jhogan]

Hmmm, okay... Thanks for the answers so far.

It appears I CAN use the Multi-Exp in 48>24 mode, although I thought part of the attraction was to use the 48HDR.

For those shooting negs: How many of you do like Tim- invert the positive in PS? I've tried it, but it's tough to get the color balance right in a reasonable amount of time... Is there a shortcut I'm missing?

Thanks again -J

[Kirk Gittings]

Can I ask a silly question? When you say you get an orange image I presume you are scanning Color Negatives.

The real question is why do you want an HDR file for? It seems to me that you are complicating the whole process as all the raw data you need is stored in the original film for future scans with presumably better scanners down the road. And scanning HDR in 48/24 bit is self defeating.

The Silverfast NegaFix plugin (particularly with the AI 6 Studio version) is the most sophisticated tool for interpreting color negatives out there. It is far superior to anything you can do in PS. The way you are approaching this bypasses this superior tool for a much poorer tool and slower workflow in PS.

[jhogan]

Thanks for the reply, Kirk...

Your question is not a silly in the least- I am scanning color Negs- and I wasn't clear on that in my initial post.

The tutorial I watched upon purchasing the upgrade recommended selecting the 48bit HDR for MultExp scanning.

I've since figured out that one can MultExp in the 48>24 Mode, with fairly satisfactory results. Mostly I use the flatbed for simple proofing, but I'd like to begin making some smaller pieces from these scans, so I'm trying to get the maximum quality my equipment, budget, and, err, skills will allow.

On that note, you mentioned in another post the annoying magenta cast in the blues on certain Negafix profiles; I'm scanning VC160 (shot at 100) and I get the same thing, especially in clear blue skies. I've been using the UC profile, which gives a major green cast, but it seems easier to deal with than the magenta.

I know that the AI versions allow for tweaking of the profiles, but for now my budget won't allow an upgrade, so I'm stuck with SE for the moment.

Any recommendations in this area?

Thanks again -J

[Kirk Gittings]

Unfortunately I am not very familiar with SE. Is there an Expert Dialogue in your NegaFix, (click on the professor guy)? In that dialogue there are curves in RGB channels that can be adjusted and saved as a tweaked film profile.


I'm scanning VC160 (shot at 100)

I do this too for many reasons, but it explains why the scanner profiles are not bang on. There is a color shift with color negative films with increased exposure in our case 2/3 of a stop.

[jhogan]

Kirk, re your question:

Is there an Expert Dialogue in your NegaFix, (click on the professor guy)? In that dialogue there are curves in RGB channels that can be adjusted and saved as a tweaked film profile.
Unfortunately, SE Plus 6.5.x doesn't have the Expert button, just a general "help" selection that opens up .PDF directions on different topics. There is no way to modify profiles, one must choose between the stock offerings.

It does appear that it's possible to import custom profiles- has anyone tried this?

Thanks again- J

[Tim Lookingbill]

I'm not sure about Silverfast's CM implementation and how it arrives at its HDR48bit RAW capture of color negatives since you can't create a profile for them anyway. I'm a bit puzzled why SF's CM setting only gives AdobeRGB and "None" as the choices for the internal profile but embeds/assigns the SF_T Epson Perfection canned profile to all my color neg RAW scans. This often produces inconsistant results with different film brands like oversaturated previews especially in shots of flowers for both Kodak UC and HD400 films but not 17 year old Agfa XRS 100.

I've supplied a screenshot sample to show what I mean. With the scan of the flower shot on Kodak HD400 all I did in PS was keep the assigned scanner profile then inverted, made three more copies and assigned different matrix based working spaces to each, adjusted color & density by setting only the highlite endpoint for all three RGB channels with a 5 level increase in green using the left bottom slider in Levels. Similar previews could be achieved by selecting Enhance Channel Contrast with Snap to Neutrals turned off in the Options dialog box in Levels.

Edited all four individually while Soft Proofing to a Noritsu minilab profile set to Relative Intent. The hue of the flower in each of the assigned matrix working space images could be made bluer by adjusting the blue channel highlite slider but not with the scanner profile which created bad posterization artifacts.

The shot of the old man had an additional simple bowed curve applied all done in the scanner space. No converting on any of the images before editing was performed because it didn't make any difference.

From the different previews shown of the new Kodak and old Agfa neg brands it appears Silverfast's SF_T scanner profile works only with a specific film and scene gamut. Not sure. The flower was shot with a Minolta Freedom Zoom P&S and the old man was captured with a Yashica SLR with a 55mm prime lens on Agfa XRS 100. Don't know if that makes a difference.

It seems assigning a wide gamut matrix type working space to the flower image gives smoother results with less posterized saturation hot spots than keeping the original Silverfast assigned table based scanner profile. Can't understand why it doesn't do this to the shot of the old man because assigning a matrix working space to it gives a dulled rusty brown hue to the preview.

Any wonder color negs are a mystery.

http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1N4NFZpUflZxZ4WgNvc8swsFA9PSc1