New LF user: frustrations and resolutions

[walter23]

I spent the last hour unloading and reloading all my film holders (all 7 of them, 5 of which are untested ebay jobs which for all I know are just destroying my film and time with light leaks ;)), and cleaning my gear, and I spent a good part of that time meditating on some of the difficulties and frustrations I've been running into with LF. I'm nowhere near giving up by any means, I love this format, but I'm realizing I need to resolve some practical problems in order to be effective and not frustrated.

1. Humidity under the dark cloth.

I can hardly focus because my glass always fogs up, and if I don't get out or hold my breath the rear lens element gets fogged and then I'm screwed for a few minutes. I basically have to pop under the cloth, hold my breath, do as much as I can with focus and tilt, pop out for air, and repeat. I suggested in jest a plastic snorkel in another thread awhile ago, but I'm starting to think that's not such a bad idea. I think it will be better in summer - back home it's sub-zero cold winter, and where I am now it's near-freezing and humid and rainy, both prime conditions for fog problems. Of course in summer it's hot and I sweat. Bah.


2. Focusing and composing down low.

I often want to get a low perspective and I just can't get my sorry ass low enough without laying in the mud. I'm starting to feel old too because my legs get sore if I crouch for too long while focusing. I can't look down at the screen from a higher head position because it's really dim from an off-centered viewing angle. Would a better screen help?

3. Dark cloth.

I'm using two T-shirts but the necks fall off the back pretty easily. Because of issue #1 (foggy ground glass) I'm always popping in and out which exacerbates this, and I also realize I don't want a less breathable and more closed up dark cloth that would make the fogging worse.

I can suck it up and just suffer with all of these things, but they are frustrations that I hope to at least partially resolve.

[darr]

1. Try a Reflex Hood
2. Try changing to a Maxwell, Boss, or Satin Snow Screen and use a Reflex Hood
3. Again, a Reflex Hood

[Mike Castles]

You mention concern about your holders (I understand this, having gone the used route as well). In place of film, load the suspect holders with enlarging paper cut to the film size. Do everything you would normally do with the holders short of exposure. In other words leave 'em out where they might get some sunlight on them, put them in the camera and pull the darkslides (if you think there is a light leak either in the camera back or bellows). Return the darkslide, and then off to the darkroom. Process the paper just like you would any print. If there are light leaks they will show up - just cheaper to use paper in place of film.

The fogging problem, not sure but you might try a little Fox-X..a product used to keep the inside of the car windows from fogging up,

The Satin Snow GG will help (have not used any others so can't comment on them)

For getting down low (yeah understand about the legs not liking it - getting old is a pain sometimes :) )...I use one of the 3 leg camp chairs - triangle seat, folds up quite compact. It brings me down to a much lower perspective and is much easier than on the ground. Bet if you think about it you will find something to help there.

Good luck and by all means keep having fun...LF has been a blast for me since I started < 2 years ago.

[Alan Rabe]

You might try carrying some GTB's (Green Trash Bag) with you. I use them to lay on the ground or snow to keep from getting muddy or wet. They have no weight and pack into any nook or cranny in your bag. Also in rain, snow, mist, or fog they will cover your camera very nicely and keep it dry. And if you get the 55 gallon verity they can be used as a rain coat for yourself. Keep dry and enjoy:D

[Bob Wagner]

I made my own dark cloth out of room darkening window shade fabric from the local fabric store. I sewed a drawstring in the end and left the bottom open with velcro along the edges. I can snug it to the camera and keep my nose and mouth outside of the darkcloth, more or less. Also allows slipping the ground glass loupe in and out. It's not perfect but works for me.

[riooso]

I am fairly new also and have made literally every mistake in the book. It was ugly!
1.I made my own gortex cloth with a dark backing of light material. Focus at a distance if you can I find this arrangement is good even in the tropics.
2. If you number each holder with a small sticker you can keep track of each in you notes
and see if you have any that are bad eventhough you inspected and cleaned them
3. Use rubber bands on your film holders. Wrap all the way around lengthwise, that will keep you from pulling the slide partway out when they are in your bag and you are at home emptying the bag out. When you empty the holder out and do not reload it change the rubberband to go around the short way. That way you will know if the holder is loaded or not. Nothing sucks like shooting blank holders or opening up a holder that has a good image on the film.
The guys on this forum are great and you will get the hang of it soon enough if you read like a big dog and relax when you are out. Believe me there are a lot of guys that have the same problems that you are having at one time.

Hope that I have done some good,

Richard Adams

[Robert Oliver]

If it was easy, everyone would shoot large format. For everyone else there is the D70/30D or an ELAN.

There is a satisfaction in working with large format that I just don't get in 35mm.

Getting low with a LF camera is the same with digital 35mm, unless you are using one of the Point and shoots with the repositionable LCDs.

[David Karp]

#1 - Hold your breath. Work in short spurts. Not kidding. Don't let the rush cause you to forget important things, like checking the corners. Others have used a snorkel pointed out of the dark cloth. May look crazy, but it is probably the best idea. In particular, a snorkel might be appropriate if you are getting down low all the time, because that will make it harder to pop in and out to breath. Get a cheap snorkel. People will already think you are nuts for using a view camera, so this will just confirm their suspicions. Don't worry, you can look forward to the warmth of summer, where you can stay under as long as you want - and come out drenched in sweat. By the way, you won't mind any of these things when you see your photographs.

#2 - The other suggestions are great. If you are going to be getting down low all the time, consider a reflex viewer. They make different kinds: I have seen both binocular and monocular for various brands. Not cheap though. The trash bag is a very good idea. Keep one or two in your pack. They are also good for putting on wet ground before you lay down your pack. One poster a while back warned about putting your pack on a plastic bag on a snowy hill. It turns into a nice sled. (Maybe you could get a big thick black one and put a hole in it for your snorkel!)

#3 - My experience is a bigger, darker cloth will stay on better, let you work faster, and get you out from under it sooner. If it gets too light, or keeps falling off, composition and focusing take longer. I would try something bigger, and remember #1 above. I have gotten pretty good at holding my breath.

Have fun. LF is a blast.

[shileshjani]

When I started 4x5 a few years ago, I bought a dark cloth - never used it. I use an old
North Face rain jacket; it is light, and comes in handy for other pursposes. It keeps my tripod mounted gear dry when shooting in light drizzle. The hood on the jacket is draped over the front standard, out of the way of the lens. Not elegant, but it works very well for me.

I do keep a few trash bags in my carrying backpack too. But the most useful item for keeping things clean on the ground, including film packs, and my knees is one of those light-weight, but tough space blankets. I believe it is a very light tarp-like contraption from Walmart, and is designed to be used for a tent ground cover. It folds to a very small size. It is a more robust solution for water proofing the gear when things get really wet.

About fogging: I rarely compose on the ground-glass. I use my fingers to get a rough idea, guess the lens focal length, and set-up. Then I will do some fine modifications to my composition, usually without the dark cloth (jacket). Only when it comes time to finally get the focus right, do I get under the jacket. Sure, I sweat, but I don't remember ever getting fogging on the ground glass.

Attached photo taken under is just the kind of problematic conditions; 15 F, fog rolling in and out.

Good luck.

[brian reed]

welcome to LF Walter, I believe all the suffering is well worth the effert. I was wondering if anyone has tried any anti fog solution used with many lens cleaners, on the GG?
BR

[Eric Leppanen]

1. Ground glass fogs up

This one's easy to solve. For moderately cold weather, I wear a small, lightweight dust mask such as this one:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=68722-98-8651&lpage=none

It covers the nose and mouth and works like a charm! In really cold weather, I have a heavyweight ski mask that covers everything but my eyes, and keeps my breath away from the ground glass. The only remaining problem I have is that the focusing loupe tends to get fogged by the heat and moisture from my eyeball, but that is just a minor annoyance and easy to wipe away.

Regarding things getting steamy under the focusing cloth in hot weather: I don't live in a part of the country where I have to deal with a lot of humidity, but I hear this product works pretty well:

http://www.quietworks.com/FRAMES_FILES/BJ_SPECIFICATIONS/HYBRID_MAIN.html

2. I don't get low to the ground very often, so I don't have any personal experience to share here. As already mentioned, try searching the archives for information on reflex hoods.

3. From what you describe, getting a real dark cloth will make your life much easier. I like the ones with an elastic band that secures to the rear standard, so that light leaks are kept to a minimum. The Blackjacket cloth listed above reportedly breathes well in warm weather, so it seems to be a good candidate. I own a standard Blackjacket, and have been very happy with it.

[snuck]

Welcome in... as long as you start to get a relatively methodical process down, it gets better and better. How about wearing a mask? that way all that lovely warm moist air coming from your mouth gets to freeze on something else... something like a balaclava.

[Eric James]

Snorkeling under the dark cloth is unwieldy - crouching and louping the glass is bad enough. I have a rescue mask - used for rescue breathing/CPR - which I plan to modify as a snorkel replacement. When used as intended, the mask fits around the victim's nose and mouth, and rescue breaths are delivered through a ~16mm OD hole on the outside of the mask. All that will be required is 1) attaching a hose to the breathing hole which curves downward and out of the dark cloth, 2) furnishing the mask with a head strap; I'll probably scavenge the rubber straps of a pair of leaky swim goggles; 3) replace the modified rescue mask with another so I don't have to swap spit with the next CPR candidate I run across.

I refuse to admit that I'm getting old, but the crouch, tilt, fumble and focus sucks. I've virtually eliminated the fumble component by using +7 prescription reading glasses under the dark cloth - I still carry a loupe but use it for very few compositions.

Though I prefer the 5X7 aspect ratio I chose the 4X5 format because of the Quickload system - no light leaks and less weight on the trail.

HNY 2007!

[Brian Ellis]

1. If you have a good viewing screen and reasonably bright light you really don't have to do all that much under the dark cloth. You should be able to see the image on the ground glass well enough to make a rough composition without the dark cloth. Then you can focus very well without the dark cloth just by putting a loupe up against the screen, which keeps most of the extraneous light out. So all you really need to do under the dark cloth is to tweak the rough composition, assuming a good screen and reasonably bright light. If either of those aren't present then you just have to hold your breath a lot in cold or humid conditions.

3. If you get a BTZS dark cloth (available from The View Camera Store for about $50), which has an opening at the bottom, then you don't need to actually come out from under the cloth for air, you can just point your face down and breathe through the opening, then raise you head back up to look at the ground glass. Returning the tee shirts to your dresser drawer and getting a BTZS or similar quality dark cloth would not only help with the breathing problem, I think it would make your whole LF experience more enjoyable. Considering the cost of your equipment and your film, not to mention the cost of getting to locations to photograph, I don't think it makes sense to save $50 or less by skimping on a dark cloth.

2. Can't help with this one, my legs and knees get sore just hiking easy trails, I don't even think about getting low to the ground.

[John O'Connell]

Darkcloths

Never bought one, never made one. I use a black t-shirt, but put the neck around my own neck and the waist around the camera. My 4x5 has clips on the side designed for a darkcloth, and the t-shirt works just fine in them. If your camera doesn't have clips, buy a big rubber band.

LF has enough $50 items you need to buy without paying that much for a sheet of fabric.

[walter23]

Thanks for all the good suggestions. I need another screen because the gridlines on mine are out of alignment (as discussed in another thread here), and I think a better dark cloth is a good idea. I'll probably make my own though; this has the benefit of being cheaper and also being exactly what I want in the size I want. I find it's hard to buy something like this online that really should be tried out; I'd hate to spend $50 - $75+ on something equivalent or worse to my T-shirt solution :)

Happy new year.

[neil poulsen]

I think the fogging problem will occur only at some times of the year. I've never experienced this problem, but I haven't shot in the cold usually, either. I wonder if adjusting a snorkal with a different tube that points down when you're using it would help. It wouldn't be so obvious, that way. You could even hide it inside the darkcloth when you're done focusing.

As for focusing low, what camera are you using? Does it have a reflex viewer available for it? They can be made to point down and up, the latter being more convenient for focusing low.

[walter23]

As for focusing low, what camera are you using? Does it have a reflex viewer available for it? They can be made to point down and up, the latter being more convenient for focusing low.

It's a shen hao, and there is a hood available for about $300 new. I could also use any graflok enabled one. I don't know that I want to carry one around though, nor spend the money for something I might not use much.