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Rob Vinnedge
30-Dec-2006, 16:36
Does anyone know how to reach John at J&C before the Jan.15th Ilford film order deadline? I have credit from an unfortunate unfilled T Max 400 order I'd like to transfer to the Ilford order. I've sent two emails and tried to phone, but the numbers don't work. I do realize that they are in the middle of a move, but I would like to speak with someone before it is too late.

kjsphotography
1-Jan-2007, 02:41
Try Aggie on apug.org I think John and her are friends and she might be able to give you a lead on how to contact him.

Turner Reich
1-Jan-2007, 19:55
Freestyle, Freestyle, Freestyle.
You can contact them without having to go throught a "tight" buddy and they don't close down for months leaving the customers screwed.

David A. Goldfarb
1-Jan-2007, 20:08
Freestyle, Freestyle, Freestyle.
You can contact them without having to go throught a "tight" buddy and they don't close down for months leaving the customers screwed.

J&C announced the move well in advance and sold off their stock at a substantial discount, so regular customers like myself were certainly not screwed, as we could stock up on plenty of film to last through the move. When they are back on line, their service will be even better. It's not as if they closed down so they could have a vacation in the Bahamas.

Freestyle is great, too, and I'm happy to spend some money there as well, but J&C has been supporting many formats that are not supported at Freestyle. J&C has also been very forthcoming with information about the films and papers they sell and who actually makes them, which I can't always say for Freestyle.

Colin Graham
1-Jan-2007, 20:09
Screwed? Screwed by supplying TMY and Ilford ulf film? Screwed by having a moving sale where everything in stock was 20% off? Then please, let the screwing continue.

Eric Rose
1-Jan-2007, 21:09
Wassa matter Turner? Santa miss your house this year??!

roteague
1-Jan-2007, 21:27
I agree with everyone else. John is a first rate guy to buy from; I don't shoot a lot of B&W, but what little I do, he has my business.

If you need to get in touch with Aggie, you are better off contacting her through Emulsion. I doubt you will have much luck getting her on APUG.

Jim Galli
1-Jan-2007, 21:39
I'll have to join the chorus and say I've been more than satisfied with every dealing at J&C. They are a treasure and I hope we haven't lost them.

In my lifetime we've moved from Kodak supplying vast diversities of products with armies of people on staff to help any professional person get answers.....to little mom and pop outfits that I'm glad as hell to have around.

J&C has been a beacon in an ever darkening arena.

Rob Vinnedge
2-Jan-2007, 00:48
I'm not at all worried about the reputation of John or J&C. I just want to be sure I don't miss out on the Ilford order by Jan. 15th. I have some credit I want to apply, and I need to actually speak to someone, anyone, by that date.

Michael Kadillak
2-Jan-2007, 08:53
John has a lot on his plate right now but I am sure that he will take care of you Rob.

To announce well in advance that your business will be "out of pocket" for a short period of time while offering a killer price to afford your customers the ability to stock up and still be called out for it is just not right and considerably short sighted.

Hang In There,

Cheers!

Aaron van de Sande
2-Jan-2007, 09:01
John completely changed the photography supply market for the better. I wish him success with his new venture.

Greg Dejanovic
2-Jan-2007, 09:21
John completely changed the photography supply market for the better. I wish him success with his new venture.

..

Eric Rose
2-Jan-2007, 15:24
You don't need to go thru Aggie. She doesn't have any better access than anyone else.

Turner Reich
5-Jan-2007, 11:13
Go though Aggie, don't go through Aggie, what's the matter can't make up your minds who to go through? Maybe something personal has happened to John and all you can think of is your own situation. Diversify and support more companies out there and get a broader base. Ever think about what would happen if for some unforeseen reason JandC disappeared? Santa rewarded me very well this year and I feel thankful for once. Eric must have gotten the lump of coal, I wonder if Aggie knows?
Maybe Eric Rose can tell us what's going on since he says Aggie doesn't have any better access than anyone else. How does he know that?

roteague
5-Jan-2007, 11:54
Maybe Eric Rose can tell us what's going on since he says Aggie doesn't have any better access than anyone else. How does he know that?

There is no mystery here. John announce he would be closed for a certain period of time. This was so he could move to a new location and expand his business. John is taking steps to expand his business, not going away.

Dave Parker
5-Jan-2007, 12:12
You don't need to go thru Aggie. She doesn't have any better access than anyone else.

Actually Eric,

You may be surprised, currently John is in the process of getting things moved so he can get back online and supplying the industry even better than before, I am sure he will be back.

Dave

Rob Vinnedge
5-Jan-2007, 15:28
I didn't mean to cause a stir. I have absolutely no worries about John/J&C and share the gratitude that half of you have for his great contribution to the ULF community. My original post was merely an attempt to place an order - no more, no less.

roteague
5-Jan-2007, 15:59
I didn't mean to cause a stir. I have absolutely no worries about John/J&C and share the gratitude that half of you have for his great contribution to the ULF community. My original post was merely an attempt to place an order - no more, no less.

No worries, Rob. I think that this subject is a bit touchy for some. I'm not sure why. I've met John personally; he is a fine fellow.

matthew blais
5-Jan-2007, 20:18
There's an announcement on J&C's website now stating a delay of 3-6 months in the re-opening and they have backed out of the Ilford order.
http://www.jandcphoto.com/JandC/update.htm

tim atherton
5-Jan-2007, 22:02
well - I'd bought from them in the past and had delayed buying a large batch of film for a project until they were back online

I guess I probably won't be looking there now for film any time in the future

So, does anyone know if Freestyle sells as Fotokemika Efke PL 100 is the same as what J&C called Adox? (and I hope Freestyle have sorted out their annoying shipping policies...?)

chris_4622
6-Jan-2007, 05:00
Tim,
Efke Pl 100 is the same as the Adox.

Bobf
6-Jan-2007, 05:48
Fred Newman of The View Camera Store has posted over on APUG that after talking to Ilford US, the 15th Jan deadline is no longer an issue. More details to come.

I guess that anyone wanting to participate had best contact The View Camera Store for more details now that J&C have removed themselves from the picture.

There seems to have been a serious lack of communication happening this time around for the Ilford ULF run, to put it mildly...

Good luck, Bob.

matthew blais
6-Jan-2007, 09:14
(and I hope Freestyle have sorted out their annoying shipping policies...?)

I'm unclear to what this means or implies? Just curious...

Everything I've ever ordered from Freestyle ships and arrives so fast I barely have time to log it in my checkbook. Shipping costs have been reasonable.

They will get a majority of my orders as they have (to me) proven to be sound in operating a business. Now, if they could stock adox paper I'd eliminate J&C altogether.

tim atherton
6-Jan-2007, 10:22
I'm unclear to what this means or implies? Just curious...

Everything I've ever ordered from Freestyle ships and arrives so fast I barely have time to log it in my checkbook. Shipping costs have been reasonable.

They will get a majority of my orders as they have (to me) proven to be sound in operating a business. Now, if they could stock adox paper I'd eliminate J&C altogether.

I stopped using freestyle a few years ago because they shipped some orders after quoting me one shipping fee, then called after the stuff had been sent to say the fee would be higher than originally quoted. This after they wouldn't use the shipping service I had specifically requested. (I now won't do business with a company that wants to ship on their terms, not yours - as invariably I find it's either more expensive or more problematic or both).

At the time they said they would ship via the method they felt was best for certain destinations.

Looking at their website, they seem to have changed this policy now - so hopefully it will work out okay

lee\c
6-Jan-2007, 11:25
understand that where Matthew lives Freestyle can deliver by bicycle from Freestyle because he lives so close to an outlet.

lee\c

matthew blais
6-Jan-2007, 13:13
understand that where Matthew lives Freestyle can deliver by bicycle from Freestyle because he lives so close to an outlet.

lee\c

:)
Well, I am close but I was talking expediency vs. proximity.
They seem to get stuff out quicker than anybody else.

John Bowen
6-Jan-2007, 18:39
customer loyalty

tim atherton
6-Jan-2007, 18:48
How does a business shut down for 3-6 months and expect to stay in business?



customer loyalty

they've lost mine

Ted Harris
6-Jan-2007, 19:01
If you need film now you need to go elsewhere. I suggest no one write off J&C just yet. Wait and see then pass judgement.

roteague
6-Jan-2007, 19:21
I suspect there is something going on here, that none of us know about.

kjsphotography
6-Jan-2007, 20:03
I have never had a problem with Freestyle or their shipping. They are an excellent company and excellent reputation.

Jim Galli
6-Jan-2007, 21:05
Henry Ford shut down his plant for 10 months in 1927 while he re-tooled between the Model T and the Model A. Half his dealers just about went broke with nothing to sell and General Motors was in a tizzy because the car buying public wouldn't buy anything until they saw the new model :D

John Kasaian
6-Jan-2007, 21:29
I'm not the least worried about J&C. They've been great to do business with and I'll be ordering some film and paper from them when they're back online in another week. I understand concerns when it comes to ordering ULF film (I shoot some 12x20) but hey its no mystery---John said he was moving his operations and this happened before (and not too long ago IIRC) I currently buy supplies from three outfits which sell pretty much the same stuff though each firm also sells unique products as well.

The one positive thing thats come out of the digital onslaught which has decimated the traditional manufacturers of traditional materials is that I've learned to roll with the punches---what is important is the picture, not the name on the box the film or paper came in.

Bruce Osgood
6-Jan-2007, 21:41
A recent look at the J&C site indicates it may be another 6 months before it opens.

Anybody know of a cost competitive source for their Classic (Forte?) papers?

Geary Lyons
6-Jan-2007, 21:55
Wow! This sure generated lot's of traffic! I have been using the products that J&C sells long before there was a J&C. IIRC, John was buying from Mirko in Germany, just the same as me and others, but he was reselling on eBay. Sept 11 caused Mirko to rethink the transatlantic shipping and contracted with John to be his exclusive US agent.

It made sense to buy from John, although the prices were much higher. There have always been supply issues and outages with J&C. I am not worried. Mirko's Photoimpex appears to be doing very well. Transatlantic shipping has smoothed. Freestyle carries Efke and Forte,et al. Ilford appears healthy. There's no stopping the Chinese.

Our future DOES NOT depend on one middleman reseller! The sky is not falling! Go shoot some of the film that you are hoarding and buy more! That will keep us a viable market!

Cheers,
Geary

Turner Reich
6-Jan-2007, 22:32
Henry Ford was a pacifist and fascist but when WWII came around he switched to Jeeps because he could cleanup and make a fortune. He's at the top of the business exec. food chain who served himself first. I had an 87 year old neighbor whose father worked for H. Ford and said he was a mean bastard. That's the business model to be admired?

John Kasaian
7-Jan-2007, 09:33
Bruce,
Take a look at Freestyle's Arista.edu (not Arista.edu Ultra---confusing, eh?) I think the .edu is Forte.

tim atherton
7-Jan-2007, 11:36
I suspect there is something going on here, that none of us know about.

there was all that talk of them trying to manufacturing their own film and buying up some plant (overseas?) - wonder of that was in the mix? Could explain things. More complicated than they expected...?

Jeremy Moore
7-Jan-2007, 12:05
Henry Ford was a pacifist and fascist but when WWII came around he switched to Jeeps because he could cleanup and make a fortune.

Don't forget bigot.

http://www.amazon.com/International-Jew-Worlds-Foremost-Problem/dp/0766178293/sr=8-2/qid=1168196610/ref=sr_1_2/002-9894818-6489644?ie=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/Henry-Ford-Jews-Mass-Production/dp/1586481630/sr=8-1/qid=1168196610/ref=sr_1_1/002-9894818-6489644?ie=UTF8&s=books

wfwhitaker
7-Jan-2007, 12:47
I suspect there is something going on here, that none of us know about.

Where did Aggie's post go? It was just here and now it's vanished without a trace.

Maybe the goons got her 'cause she talked.

Ted Harris
7-Jan-2007, 15:29
Aggie's post is gone as is Tim's because the original post contained information of a personal nature that John does not want publicized. The post was deleted purely in the spirit of honoring his privacy at his request.

wfwhitaker
7-Jan-2007, 15:47
Well, at least that leaves us free to speculate again.

tim atherton
7-Jan-2007, 16:08
Well, at least that leaves us free to speculate again.

while it seems there may well be a simple reason for the delay, the problem with this is that with the cryptic messages on the website and ever extending deadlines etc etc rightly or wrongly this reverberates with echoes of Ron Wisner/Ken Hough for some of us....

Simply put, better communication might well help.

Dave Parker
7-Jan-2007, 16:36
Ever extending deadlines?, Tim, there has been one extension of the deadline, not ever ending...due to the fact this is the first time he has extended the deadline and has informed everyone willing to look that something has happened, I am more than willing to give John the benefit of the doubt and wish him well..

tim atherton
7-Jan-2007, 16:51
Ever extending deadlines?, Tim, there has been one extension of the deadline, not ever ending...due to the fact this is the first time he has extended the deadline and has informed everyone willing to look that something has happened, I am more than willing to give John the benefit of the doubt and wish him well..

then make that vague extending deadline and rather ambiguous information - whatever

Aggie
7-Jan-2007, 17:42
I'm sorry I posted what I did. I have been inendated with emails of people wanting to know what I know. I had not answered one of them. It was a day ago that one of the members here let me know why I was getting all those emails. Maybe now My emails will stop about this issue.

Dave Parker
7-Jan-2007, 17:52
then make that vague extending deadline and rather ambiguous information - whatever


Tim,

I don't understand why you are so pessimistic about things, many of us are 100% committed to traditional photography, things happen, life gets in the way, but that does not change the dedication at all, I know John is committed to the traditional photography business, this is getting to be worse than the speculation of who is screwing who in the oval office! Which by the way, I don't even consider my business...Give the guy a break...and when he gets back to having his business up and running, give him a chance to earn your business, in the mean time, check the alternative suppliers, that seems to be a pretty simple thing to do..

Dave

:confused:

tim atherton
7-Jan-2007, 18:02
Tim,

I don't understand why you are so pessimistic about things, many of us are 100% committed to traditional photography, things happen, life gets in the way, but that does not change the dedication at all, I know John is committed to the traditional photography business, this is getting to be worse than the speculation of who is screwing who in the oval office! Which by the way, I don't even consider my business...Give the guy a break...and when he gets back to having his business up and running, give him a chance to earn your business, in the mean time, check the alternative suppliers, that seems to be a pretty simple thing to do..

Dave

:confused:

Oh - not pessimistic, just pissed off. I accepted J&C at their word - that they would be going by the 15th. I supported J&C over others, even for my "mainstream" films for that very reason: because they were committed to traditional photography (even when they forget to tell you an item was shipped because they forget to tell you it wasn't in stock...).

Now, on short notice, I have to deal with a supplier who has proved unreliable in the past (and who doesn't stock some of the things I was waiting for). I'd have researched other avenues if I knew J&C wasn't going to be up and running, but the time is passed now.

Then we get fudging over why the business going to be delayed

I've got projects to start and such extra annoyances don't exactly help

Dave Parker
7-Jan-2007, 18:09
Oh - not pessimistic, just pissed off. I accepted J&C at their word - that they would be going by the 15th. I supported J&C over others, even for my "mainstream" films for that very reason: because they were committed to traditional photography (even when they forget to tell you an item was shipped because they forget to tell you it wasn't in stock...).

Now, on short notice, I have to deal with a supplier who has proved unreliable in the past (and who doesn't stock some of the things I was waiting for). I'd have researched other avenues if I knew J&C wasn't going to be up and running, but the time is passed now.

Then we get fudging over why the business going to be delayed

I've got projects to start and such extra annoyances don't exactly help

Well hopefully you are able to find a supplier that meets your needs...at this point in time, being pissed is not going to change anything.......good luck..I know that in the almost 30 years I have shot film, I have had to on more than one occasion had to change directions mid stream..

Dave

Rolleijoe
8-Jan-2007, 07:28
well - I'd bought from them in the past and had delayed buying a large batch of film for a project until they were back online

I guess I probably won't be looking there now for film any time in the future

So, does anyone know if Freestyle sells as Fotokemika Efke PL 100 is the same as what J&C called Adox? (and I hope Freestyle have sorted out their annoying shipping policies...?)

What annoying shipping policies? A $25 minimum? A flat rate for shipping is great, and they accept returns even on film/papers you've actually used, much less not used.

Efke is the original, Adox is the name given from Fotoimpex (who is J&C's supplier for just about everything). Yes, Efke is the same, (and their papers are the closest I've seen to the old 30s-40s Agfa papers since those papers went belly up). You should have no problems, unless you count lower prices a problem.

Freestyle has the US exclusive to Efke, dealing straight with the factory in Zagreb rather than a 2nd party. Any "odd" size can probably be special ordered, just like with J&C.

Freestyle's easy to get on the phone, sales people are active b&w users, and know their stuff. I've never had any problems with them in over 10 years of patronage.

Rolleijoe
8-Jan-2007, 07:33
A recent look at the J&C site indicates it may be another 6 months before it opens.

Anybody know of a cost competitive source for their Classic (Forte?) papers?

Go with Freestyle and their Arista branded Forte papers. Their prices can't be beat on that stuff.

Jim Galli
8-Jan-2007, 10:24
Henry Ford shut down his plant for 10 months in 1927 while he re-tooled between the Model T and the Model A. Half his dealers just about went broke with nothing to sell and General Motors was in a tizzy because the car buying public wouldn't buy anything until they saw the new model :D


Henry Ford was a pacifist and fascist but when WWII came around he switched to Jeeps because he could cleanup and make a fortune. He's at the top of the business exec. food chain who served himself first. I had an 87 year old neighbor whose father worked for H. Ford and said he was a mean bastard. That's the business model to be admired?


Don't forget bigot.

http://www.amazon.com/International-Jew-Worlds-Foremost-Problem/dp/0766178293/sr=8-2/qid=1168196610/ref=sr_1_2/002-9894818-6489644?ie=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/Henry-Ford-Jews-Mass-Production/dp/1586481630/sr=8-1/qid=1168196610/ref=sr_1_1/002-9894818-6489644?ie=UTF8&s=books

Sheesh, I was trying to add a little cheer. Some of you folks are a little hostile.

tim atherton
8-Jan-2007, 11:00
What annoying shipping policies? A $25 minimum? A flat rate for shipping is great, and they accept returns even on film/papers you've actually used, much less not used.


not shipping via the method the buyer requests/requested, disovering "extra" shipping charges once the order is on its way - happened more than once.

But I have been assured these things have apparently been fixed

D. Bryant
8-Jan-2007, 11:07
Maybe the goons got her 'cause she talked.

Forum goons - I like that Bill. :)

Don Bryant

Aggie
8-Jan-2007, 12:21
Forum goons - I like that Bill. :)

Don Bryant

But did anyone get pictures of them?

Bobf
9-Jan-2007, 10:19
Just updating my previous post re' J&C and the Ilford ULF cutting for those not on APUG. This just posted on APUG:


Dear ILFORD ULF customers,

Firstly, may I sincerely apologise for the delay in replying to you all.

There has obviously been a lot of unnecessary confusion, I am pleased to confirm that all our ULF partners will receive a communication from our US distributor Wynit by Monday January 22nd. Once our ULF partners have received that communication, we will give the required details and information on how to participate in this ULF make, to all at APUG, on this forum.

We apologise for this delay :

Simon : ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Michael Kadillak
9-Jan-2007, 15:13
Just updating my previous post re' J&C and the Ilford ULF cutting for those not on APUG. This just posted on APUG:

Thank God we have options. Take advantage of these in the short term as sheet film consumption wherever the business is consumated, it the critical component.

When J&C is ready to open the door, they will let us know. I will take innovation over being upset any day of the week.

steve simmons
10-Jan-2007, 06:45
There is also the Maco film that View Camera tested in a recent issue. It is available from Freestyle and Bruce's Camera Store.

The Jan/Feb 07 issue of View Camera has an up to date chart on the currently available sheet films If you can't look at that list and be pleased at the number of choices then I don't know what to say. Even with J and C out of the picture for at least the forseeable future, there are plenty of choices. No doomsaying allowed :)


steve simmons

Turner Reich
10-Jan-2007, 21:52
It's a sorry situation, Just one comment from JandC would ease a lot of fears and give peace of mind to a lot of people.

For some unknown reason it just isn't happening. We can't help if we don't know what the problem is.

Oren Grad
10-Jan-2007, 22:28
It's a sorry situation, Just one comment from JandC would ease a lot of fears and give peace of mind to a lot of people.

For some unknown reason it just isn't happening. We can't help if we don't know what the problem is.

JandC has announced on its website that its reopening will be delayed for 3-6 months, and that in the meantime many products may be purchased from Fotoimpex. On APUG, Fotoimpex has announced that for the period that JandC is closed, they will offer virtually the entire JandC product portfolio at a special subsidized flat shipping rate from Europe.

JandC has also announced on its website that all Ilford ULF pre-orders have been refunded and advised customers to deal with different vendors for this round of Ilford ULF.

Finally, JandC has just announced (today!) on its website that cutting of all of the remaining TMY odd size orders will go forward, that there is a possibility of new orders for TMY being accepted as well, and that production schedules should be known shortly.