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View Full Version : "Real" Shen Hao and Tachihara bellows numbers?



C. D. Keth
18-Dec-2006, 16:44
Could anyone who owns one or both of these 4x5 cameras measure the minimum and maximum bellows draw for me?

I'm thinking about buying one of the two and online accounts all seem to disagree slightly. Shen Hao's factory site doesn't even list these numbers for the folding 4x5 model. I'm slightly confused about the variation.

Kevin Klazek
18-Dec-2006, 19:01
I have a new Tachihara. The minimum extension from focal plane to the back of the lensboard is 68 mm and the maximum extension is 316mm. The shortest lens I have used is a 90 SA and it works great. I believe it will take a 300mm on the other end, but I have never tried one.

johnnydc
18-Dec-2006, 20:06
Could anyone who owns one or both of these 4x5 cameras measure the minimum and maximum bellows draw for me?

I'm thinking about buying one of the two and online accounts all seem to disagree slightly. Shen Hao's factory site doesn't even list these numbers for the folding 4x5 model. I'm slightly confused about the variation.

Christopher-

I've taken out my Shen-Hao and measured the bellows extension. The bellows can physically extend to about 16", but when mounted on the camera, the bellows extension is limited to about 14" (360mm -- gg to lensboard) when using the "extended" configuration (Top row, 2nd from left in the photo).

In the "normal" configuration it's a little under 12" (300mm) from GG to lensboard. I would warn you though that the extended configuration is a little unstable with any lens heavier than the average 135mm or 150mm f/5.6. So even though you gain 2 inches, you end up with a greater propensity for vibration (the tripod socket is in the center of the bed) as well as the possibility of "tilt creep", because the front standard doesn't lock so securely in that position.

As such, I would suggest you go with the 12" figure.

When fully compressed, the accordion bellows measures 1" (25mm). If you want to use wide angle lenses (<100mm) on the Shen-Hao, I would suggest you buy the bag bellows, which is kind of a steal for $100, is made quite well and really makes your life ALOT easier.

http://www.shen-hao.com/image/E45.jpg

Scott Kathe
19-Dec-2006, 07:50
I have a Shen Hao 4x5 and was wondering if anyone has ever used a recessed lens board in reverse with a 300mm lens? Right now I just have a 150mm Nikkor-W and a 90mm Angulon and I can do plenty with my present kit. But, at some point next year I'd like to get either a 200/210mm, 240mm or 300mm and I'm wondering if I should just forget about the 300mm, probably a Nikkor-M (since I do a lot of hiking).

Scott

Mark Sampson
19-Dec-2006, 08:09
Here's a practical, non-spec answer. When I had a 4x5 Tachihara, I was able to use a Nikon 300mm f/9 at normal focusing distances. A 90mm f/8 wideangle was also comfortable. The brochure/instructions that came with the camera stated that a 65mm lens was usable. In those days (1982) that was about the widest lens you could get that covered 4x5.

johnnydc
19-Dec-2006, 09:25
Here's a practical, non-spec answer. When I had a 4x5 Tachihara, I was able to use a Nikon 300mm f/9 at normal focusing distances. A 90mm f/8 wideangle was also comfortable. The brochure/instructions that came with the camera stated that a 65mm lens was usable. In those days (1982) that was about the widest lens you could get that covered 4x5.

My 90mm f/8 worked on the Shen-Hao with the regular bellows, however the front rise was somewhat limited -- I'd get stopped by the bellows before I ran out of image circle, and using front rise along with other movements was pretty much impossible.

C. D. Keth
19-Dec-2006, 09:38
Excellent. Thanks!

walter23
19-Dec-2006, 09:47
I haven't measured it but fully extended (with the front basetilt / axis tilt trick to gain a couple inches) I can get pretty close to 1:1 macro with a 210mm lens.

It's not extremely stable, but I don't think vibration is much more of an issue than it is with normal focusing distances and the 210mm lens. It's a wooden camera - you have to be careful. My negatives are nice and sharp. I'm usually shooting 1/2 to 1/30th shutter speeds.

http://ashphotography.ca/gunther/uploads/pages/unseen/sandy1IMG_0373.jpg
http://ashphotography.ca/gunther/uploads/pages/unseen/sandy2IMG_0368.jpg

If you're deciding between shen hao and tachihara I don't know that bellows extension is the most important factor. I think it boils down to weight (tachihara = lighter) vs. movements (shen hao = more). I'm very happy with my shen hao. The only issue was that I had to add an extra washer to the rear standard lockdown lever to allow it to tighten up properly; it was a bit sloppy as new. Very easy fix though; trip to the hardware store for the right washer and 5 minutes of easy work (I'm not very mechanically inclined) to put the washer in place. The tachihara wouldn't have that problem because it doesn't even have these movements :)

C. D. Keth
19-Dec-2006, 10:31
Bellows extension certainly isn't the most important feature but I would still like to know the real situation, since there isn't really a definitive official answer I've found on the net.

Brian Ellis
19-Dec-2006, 11:26
My Tachihara would extend to right at 13", enough to make a 300mm lens usable at closer than infinity. I suppose you'll find minor variations from one camera to another since bellows can vary slightly but if you don't mind giving up about 10 - 12 feet of close focusing you should be able to use a 300mm normal lens on a Tachihara. When comparing to Shen Hao part of the reason for the confusion I think is that Shen Hao sometimes talks about having a 14" extension. Which is true but only if you use front base tilt to move the lens out in front of the camera bed and then use front axis tilt to bring the lens parallel to the film plane. Which I would find to be something of a pain and maybe problematical from a stability standpoint, at least with larger lenses.

Scott Davis
19-Dec-2006, 14:04
Another solution to the 300mm on a tachi/shen - a 300 Tele, like a Fujinon 300T F8. I have one for my Shen, and it is a terrific lens for the format. It will cover 5x7 with a few millimeters of movement, but nothing more, so you've got room to spare on 4x5, and it only takes about the same bellows draw at infinity as a 210, so you can focus plenty close.